No V8 Engines for Future Lexus Models

[Levi]

Meanwhile at rival in Munich: https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/08/11/bmw-ix-inext-will-come-in-three-flavors-from-300-to-600-hp/

 

[Sebass]

This doesn't sound like something Lexus would do though. The TTV8 was essentially finished in the LC F racecar. If they were to actually have the balls to do that then they're truly idiots.

It's like they forgot that they could amortize the costs of that engine by putting it in multiple Toyota and Lexus vehicles. Meh. If this is true, then I really don't care about Lexus anymore. After the current GS F, LC500/LC C, and LS500 are gone then they have nothing of value lol. It's also pretty much a given that nothing exciting or valuable will come out in the near future so for that reason I'm outta here.

This brand sucks a**. Cya never (unless some miracle happens but I gave up on that too).

Agreed, I think I'm done with Lexus, they have nothing coming in the near future that excites me.

 

[mikeavelli]

My biggest issue with the Supra is that they aren't using the car to add value to the brand like other 'halo' cars by showing off what the company is capable of. I think an argument could be made that it even hurts the brand. For example, I have been wanting ~400hp IS for some time now and thought it would be happen during the refresh but it never came to fruition. With that being said, what is stopping me from getting a M340i instead since the updated B58 lives up to Toyota's standards? This could potentially turn me into a life long BMW owner (I already am one but this is just an example) instead of a life long Toyota/Lexus owner. They had an opportunity to do the opposite by putting the V35a in the Supra and other vehicles and attracting buyers from other companies and retraining those customers for multiple vehicles.

Now, they again lost the opportunity to draw attention to their brand by stopping LC-F development. They rode the LFA wave for a long time and I don't think it will last much longer. With Genesis on their heels, especially with their reliability thus far and tech features that consumers want, I don't see what Lexus has going for them nowadays to attract customers.

I've always been conflicted on it. As an enthusaist I am all for it. We can agree it is a superb product so at least they got the synergies right. As an enthusiast, I welcome a sports car in a sea of crossovers. Now as a Toyota/Lexus purist, yes a BMW sourced engine/tranny is still weird. And it doesn't show the engineering prowess of the brand in regards to an engine. Which is really a 180 move considering the MKIV is LEGENDARY almost solely because of the 2JZ. You never hear about the MKIV interior, or handling, or anything else. The engine dominates the conversation.

The thing is, Toyota would not have approved or build that car if they had to invest in a low volume engine. The past 2JZ was used in various Toyota and Lexus sedans for example. Well with most of those vehicles gone or on the way out, where would thing engine go to help with economies of scale? True we could argue that would be a good reason to continue the GS/Crown Mark X, IS, etc etc. Imagine those cars and a Supra with a new Toyota I-6? But then would we be able to tune it? That is one thing, the Supra has been tuned from day one being an open source BMW engine.

One of my clients is Buckhead Imports in Atlanta and I joked with the owner if I got a Toyota Supra (they mostly deal with high end Euro cars) he could tune it for me. Never thought I could say that before lol.

I guess we will only be able to fathom the "what if". On the very flipside, it is important we buy their coupes to give them reason to continue. We have seen what happened to the Mitsubishi Eclipse lol.

 

[Sebass]

Me after the LC F was rumored to be canceled: Well it can't get much worse than this.

Lexus: Hold My Beer.

 

[LexusSteve]

I have seriously tapered my expectations when it comes to Lexus so I can't say I am surprised by the news. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I read the headline and laughed as this kind of confirms to me the suspicion that I have had for the past few years that there is indeed a very influential out of touch Executive at Lexus. I am willing to bet the Exec who chose to axe the V8 is the same guy who wanted a STUPID YACHT. (I have been very unhappy with Lexus as a brand for several years now, but the Yacht is what triggered me and made me look to Porsche for actual fun driving machines.) All in all I think what happened in retrospect is back when Toyota was at the EV/Fuel Cell fork in the road, and Toyota opted to go the Fuel Cell route. I think that we seeing the ramifications and aftermath of the Fuel Cell not being widely adopted, as I think Toyota had plans to take their portfolio in a Fuel Cell the line up as fast as possible. If you look at how late to market Toyota has been in the EV and the PHEV market after being the first to market with the Prius Hybrid, I think it is safe to say they had expected Fuel Cell R&D to go much better than it did. I'm a chemist by education and trade, and I will say that the Fuel Cell is still the superior solution in comparison to a Nickel Hydride or Lithium Ion Battery Vehicle, its just that it is still too early for Fuel Cell vehicles to go mainstream as there exists far too many roadblocks (chemistry being the main limiting factor because we have yet to find a super efficient way to produce Hydrogen Gas.) The Battery EVs are really an interim sort of solution as there is actually a lot of pollution involved with the production of the batteries themselves. Disposal/VERY Low Lithium Reclamation Yields are serious issues and we also don't have a power grid to really support every household being on a BEV. I don't want to get super technical, but solar energy is not a super efficient process and there are parts of the world that don't get much sunlight. Tesla is also doing some things that suck for the consumer, like putting heated seats in your car, but you have to actually pay a monthly subscription to use them or something along those lines. There are also serious political aspects which I don't want to delve into, but just recently Elon Musk's SpaceX was awarded 40% of the contracts to build rockets (Billions of dollars) by the United States Air Force. (This is a big deal, because SpaceX is a commercial company and they are not regulated by the government in the same way that the other government entities are.) I took a huge tangent, but they are worth mentioning as you may be deciding to buy an EV in the future. In any event, this is the beginning of Lexus taking a huge dip and I don't think we will see any real change for another 3-5 years, as Lexus will struggle to move units.

Hope everyone is staying safe out there and I know many of us feel seriously let down, but maybe Lexus will give us another LFA when they see Genesis has ousted them from the top 3.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Y'all are spreading so much misinformation on the GR Supra lmfao.

 

[super51fan]

I've always been conflicted on it. As an enthusaist I am all for it. We can agree it is a superb product so at least they got the synergies right. As an enthusiast, I welcome a sports car in a sea of crossovers. Now as a Toyota/Lexus purist, yes a BMW sourced engine/tranny is still weird. And it doesn't show the engineering prowess of the brand in regards to an engine. Which is really a 180 move considering the MKIV is LEGENDARY almost solely because of the 2JZ. You never hear about the MKIV interior, or handling, or anything else. The engine dominates the conversation.

The thing is, Toyota would not have approved or build that car if they had to invest in a low volume engine. The past 2JZ was used in various Toyota and Lexus sedans for example. Well with most of those vehicles gone or on the way out, where would thing engine go to help with economies of scale? True we could argue that would be a good reason to continue the GS/Crown Mark X, IS, etc etc. Imagine those cars and a Supra with a new Toyota I-6? But then would we be able to tune it? That is one thing, the Supra has been tuned from day one being an open source BMW engine.

One of my clients is Buckhead Imports in Atlanta and I joked with the owner if I got a Toyota Supra (they mostly deal with high end Euro cars) he could tune it for me. Never thought I could say that before lol.

I guess we will only be able to fathom the "what if". On the very flipside, it is important we buy their coupes to give them reason to continue. We have seen what happened to the Mitsubishi Eclipse lol.

But they didn’t need to use a Toyota I6 or even an I6 at all. It was only Toyota who said it had to have one.

Not that this matters since what is done is done, they could have put the V35a in the same chassis (which would have made it front-mid engine since the 4 cylinder is front-mid and a V6 is more compact, like prior corvettes or the Amg GT) and made the same great car, if not better with improved weight distribution and CoG with a V6. Not to mention it would be around the same price assuming from a production standpoint the V35a costs within a few grand of the B58. The ZF8 works with a dozen motors now so that wouldn’t be an issue to keep. And Toyota has integrated BMW engines in RAV4s without any issue so I don’t see why they could figure out a Toyota engine with BMW electronics. The only downside is a V6 instead of I6 which people will get over quickly just like with the GTR.

This would bring so much attention to Toyota for doing so while utilizing the same cost cutting partnership and delivering an affordable sports car.

 

[super51fan]

Y'all are spreading so much misinformation on the GR Supra lmfao.

No one has said any information, just opinions which are perfectly valid to have. I really like the car and will probably own one when the house is paid off, but I think it could be sooo much better as a halo car by using both BMW and Toyota resources while not drastically increasing price to give Toyota a halo car that draws attention to the brand.

 

[Gecko]

We are not turning this into another Supra discussion/disagreement thread.

 

[super51fan]

We are not turning this into another Supra discussion/disagreement thread.

No one is disagreeing about the Supra, it is a discussion about halo cars which directly relates to Toyota's cancelled halo motor. Now that the V35a is the halo motor, it is relevant to discuss which cars should or should not get the motor.

 

[Berto3818]

What a minute. Before we take this publication as gospel has anyone verified its accuracy? This was the same mag that said the LS600 was coming back with a 8 cylinder? Obviously that was wrong so why are we believing this straight out of hand?

 

[James]

Because as Gecko continues to remind us everything we want from Lexus they don’t do lol idk it just seems accurate. I mean what the hell is taking so long for this V8 or the LF1 or LSF or LCF or ISF or IS500 or anything else? Anything exciting that we keep dreaming about from Lexus is dead.

 

[Berto3818]

I think the V35A-FTS isn’t even touching its top power limit. I think it could be as strong as a 8 if not stronger. The 4.0 liter TTv8 from Mercedes is rated at 460 hp. The Lexus 6 is only only 40 hp off that.

 

[Berto3818]

Because as Gecko continues to remind us everything we want from Lexus they don’t do lol idk it just seems accurate. I mean what the hell is taking so long for this V8 or the LF1 or LSF or LCF or ISF or IS500 or anything else? Anything exciting that we keep dreaming about from Lexus is dead.

@James - I’m not buying it. I don’t think Lexus would would be this stupid and cut it’s head off like this. Like I said I don’t need the 8: the TTV6 is fine by me. It’s one hell of a motor and I don’t think it’s potential is even be touched yet. I’m thinking this motor could pump out well over 550 hp and over 500 pounds or torque.

 

[super51fan]

I think the V35A-FTS isn’t even touching its top power limit. I think it could be as strong as a 8 if not stronger. The 4.0 liter TTv8 from Mercedes is rated at 460 hp. The Lexus 6 is only only 40 hp off that.

The V35a truly does have so much more potential. The VR38 is only a slight increase in displacement with way less tech (port injection, variable valve timing on intake only) and makes 600hp. I think the V35a could do that as well without hybrid assistance.

(The 4.0 TT from Mercedes isn't a good comparison since it makes 730hp is the AMG GT BS.)

 

[Berto3818]

The V35a truly does have so much more potential. The VR38 is only a slight increase in displacement with way less tech (port injection, variable valve timing on intake only) and makes 600hp. I think the V35a could do that as well without hybrid assistance.

(The 4.0 TT from Mercedes isn't a good comparison since it makes 730hp is the AMG GT BS.)

@super51fan I believe so also. It’s one hell of a motor and that is probably why it’s only been in the LS. I think the 416hp because that is enough for the LS. More than enough. It would blow the old 8 away and I think the 2UR. Motor also if tuned right.

 

[super51fan]

@super51fan I believe so also. It’s one hell of a motor and that is probably why it’s only been in the LS. I think the 416hp because that is enough for the LS. More than enough. It would blow the old 8 away and I think the 2UR. Motor also if tuned right.

Whats frustrating about that is the it is only in the LS. I know it is supposed to be other models but I will believe that when I see it. Other companies put their halo motors, although detuned or tuned differently in many other cars. Mercedes uses the TT V8 in all their AMG 63 models, GM puts their V8s in everything from the Corvette to their creepy white vans, and even Ford uses the 3.5 TT V6 from the Ford GT in station wagons and police cars.

 

[Levi]

Maybe the TTV6 hybrid is enough? Every top engine of German cars is now a hybrid. They are TTV8 though, but also very heavy.

 

[Berto3818]

I will say this about the Supra but its about the whole engine topic. I don't under for the V35A-FTS they just didn't put more power in it and add it to the supra? Why go out and get a lame BMW motor and drop it in there.

I do think the TTV6 Hybrid is going to be a beast and it is my guess if the LS600 comes back that is what is going to be in there.

i think the TTV6 can have over 600hp.

 

[ssun30]

The G16E gets 124kW/L from a 3-cyl the V35 definitely is designed for much higher specific output. 650hp in a 3.4L V6 isn't newsworthy today. There are a plenty of 6-cyl in that power range.