MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread

Gecko

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This car has been all over the place! I'm ready to see the damn thing!
 

supra93

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Production headlights spied

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/production-headlights-spied.636

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Gecko

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Disappointed with what I'm hearing regarding engines, but excited to see this thing come to life regardless.
 

CIF

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Disappointed with what I'm hearing regarding engines, but excited to see this thing come to life regardless.

I actually have almost no anticipation for this sadly. I am not liking what I see so far in terms of proportions, and from the start I never liked the partnership with BMW.
 

supra93

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I still don't believe this will be a Supra.
Seems smaller even than the GT86.

Negative, it is indeed larger than the 86. Not to mention the BMW/Toyota press release where they state the joint sports car will be a midsize.

fRjCLXm.png
 

oem_is300

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I actually have almost no anticipation for this sadly. I am not liking what I see so far in terms of proportions, and from the start I never liked the partnership with BMW.

That's what I'm not a fan of, excited to see more details on the car though.
 

Gecko

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I have to say that as more information leaks about this car, I become less interested. I am very happy to see the return of the Supra so close upon us, but I think Toyota's execution here is completely wrong and I believe that many who have been waiting 20 years for this car will agree.

The beauty in a Supra is that it was ahead of its day, an "every-day exotic" but a car that was also as bulletproof as a Camry. Many Supras have been DD'ed for 250k miles or more with no issues, and that's no surprise because for it's time, the car represented the very best of Toyota engineering. Many people even considered the Supra to be "over-engineered" like the original LS or a Land Cruiser are/were.

If this car is to debut as just a BMW wearing street clothes, it is really not a Supra at all. BMW's electronics and engines haven't been anywhere nearly as reliable as what Toyota produces, much less what would be in line for a Supra. The 2.0T nor 3.0TT are really appropriate for this car in any way other than architecture (being an I6).

Furthermore, this car should probably come standard with ~350hp and an up level version that made 450-500+ hp. The old car was 220hp in standard form and 320hp in TT form. Twenty five years later and they're shooting for essentially the same power targets? Are you kidding me? Even if BMW wanted to lend Toyota the engine from the M4, 425hp is not enough for a top-end Supra in this market. Also, Toyota is starting to roll out their next gen Dynamic Force engines - the best of Toyota's engineering, and finally incorporating turbocharging - and they can't even find one of those to use? A Dynamic Force 3.0L turbo base or 3.5L twin turbo upmarket engine would have given this Supra the Toyota heart everyone assumed it would have - and should have been a fairly easy solution.

If Toyota and BMW collaborated on the platform and many of the major components, but went a different direction for powertrains, I think I could swallow this car. A BMW platform with BMW electronics, a BMW transmission and a BMW engine is no Supra. The 2JZ is what made the Supra great and it's not only one of the best engines of all time, but rather one of Toyota's greatest engines. If Toyota can't even find their own engine to put in this car (Like the new 3.5L TT V6), then I just don't have any respect for the effort and again, to me, it's not a Supra at all.
 
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supra93

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Toyota Patents Manual Trans That Shifts To Neutral By Itself

The world of automotive inventions and patents is nothing if not complicated. Reading through this lengthy application Toyota filed to the US Patent & Trademark Office back in January, we think we understand what’s going on here. Of course, we welcome you to check out the application for yourself, because we’d love to get your feedback on whether this is a novel idea, or an attempt to fix a nonexistent problem.

As far as we can tell, the patent involves an electronic control unit that can operate the clutch and gearbox of a proper manual transmission, by which we mean a car with three separate pedals and a lever in the middle to change gears by hand. When activated, the control unit can automatically disengage the clutch when the car is coasting, but it can also operate the gearbox to take the car out of gear. As such, it can also actuate a series of lock pins that would prevent the driver from shifting to a gear too low or too high given the vehicle’s speed.

In other words, it would keep all you boy racers from executing high-rpm downshifts just to hear the exhaust pop. On the other side of the coin, it would keep you manual transmission newbies from accidentally going to third gear instead of first as you coast to a stoplight, saving you from a very embarrassing stall in front of the entire world.

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/toyota-patents-manual-trans-that-shifts-to-neutral-by-itself.638/

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bogglo

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I have to say that as more information leaks about this car, I become less interested. I am very happy to see the return of the Supra so close upon us, but I think Toyota's execution here is completely wrong and I believe that many who have been waiting 20 years for this car will agree.

The beauty in a Supra is that it was ahead of its day, an "every-day exotic" but a car that was also as bulletproof as a Camry. Many Supras have been DD'ed for 250k miles or more with no issues, and that's no surprise because for it's time, the car represented the very best of Toyota engineering. Many people even considered the Supra to be "over-engineered" like the original LS or a Land Cruiser are/were.

If this car is to debut as just a BMW wearing street clothes, it is really not a Supra at all. BMW's electronics and engines haven't been anywhere nearly as reliable as what Toyota produces, much less what would be in line for a Supra. The 2.0T nor 3.0TT are really appropriate for this car in any way other than architecture (being an I6).

Furthermore, this car should probably come standard with ~350hp and an up level version that made 450-500+ hp. The old car was 220hp in standard form and 320hp in TT form. Twenty five years later and they're shooting for essentially the same power targets? Are you kidding me? Even if BMW wanted to lend Toyota the engine from the M4, 425hp is not enough for a top-end Supra in this market. Also, Toyota is starting to roll out their next gen Dynamic Force engines - the best of Toyota's engineering, and finally incorporating turbocharging - and they can't even find one of those to use? A Dynamic Force 3.0L turbo base or 3.5L twin turbo upmarket engine would have given this Supra the Toyota heart everyone assumed it would have - and should have been a fairly easy solution.

If Toyota and BMW collaborated on the platform and many of the major components, but went a different direction for powertrains, I think I could swallow this car. A BMW platform with BMW electronics, a BMW transmission and a BMW engine is no Supra. The 2JZ is what made the Supra great and it's not only one of the best engines of all time, but rather one of Toyota's greatest engines. If Toyota can't even find their own engine to put in this car (Like the new 3.5L TT V6), then I just don't have any respect for the effort and again, to me, it's not a Supra at all.

Thank you for this post. This is what have been saying. If this is indeed the next supra there is noway Toyota would use a bmw engine in it. Now if its a brand new car with its own name or a replacement for celica then yes bmw engine might be used. I also like your point about the output of the MKIV. That's another reason I don't believe the 4cyl and 6cyl engine rumor circulating the internet. If this is replacing the supra I think the similarities should end in shared chasis. The interior of the new camry shows Toyota can make a decent interior of their own for this car. And this car should be the perfect car to debut a 3.0LTT dynamic force engine with. the same way the 2jz was shared with the GS back in the day. The 3.0LTT should replace the GS350/is350/rc350 3.5l also.
 

supra93

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The 86 kinda fills the role of the Celica. They also have hinted at a $50k-$60k price tag. Way higher than any past Celicas.
 

CIF

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I have to say that as more information leaks about this car, I become less interested. I am very happy to see the return of the Supra so close upon us, but I think Toyota's execution here is completely wrong and I believe that many who have been waiting 20 years for this car will agree.

The beauty in a Supra is that it was ahead of its day, an "every-day exotic" but a car that was also as bulletproof as a Camry. Many Supras have been DD'ed for 250k miles or more with no issues, and that's no surprise because for it's time, the car represented the very best of Toyota engineering. Many people even considered the Supra to be "over-engineered" like the original LS or a Land Cruiser are/were.

If this car is to debut as just a BMW wearing street clothes, it is really not a Supra at all. BMW's electronics and engines haven't been anywhere nearly as reliable as what Toyota produces, much less what would be in line for a Supra. The 2.0T nor 3.0TT are really appropriate for this car in any way other than architecture (being an I6).

Furthermore, this car should probably come standard with ~350hp and an up level version that made 450-500+ hp. The old car was 220hp in standard form and 320hp in TT form. Twenty five years later and they're shooting for essentially the same power targets? Are you kidding me? Even if BMW wanted to lend Toyota the engine from the M4, 425hp is not enough for a top-end Supra in this market. Also, Toyota is starting to roll out their next gen Dynamic Force engines - the best of Toyota's engineering, and finally incorporating turbocharging - and they can't even find one of those to use? A Dynamic Force 3.0L turbo base or 3.5L twin turbo upmarket engine would have given this Supra the Toyota heart everyone assumed it would have - and should have been a fairly easy solution.

If Toyota and BMW collaborated on the platform and many of the major components, but went a different direction for powertrains, I think I could swallow this car. A BMW platform with BMW electronics, a BMW transmission and a BMW engine is no Supra. The 2JZ is what made the Supra great and it's not only one of the best engines of all time, but rather one of Toyota's greatest engines. If Toyota can't even find their own engine to put in this car (Like the new 3.5L TT V6), then I just don't have any respect for the effort and again, to me, it's not a Supra at all.

My thoughts exactly. Given the Z4 proportions, and if it ends up sharing a lot of BMW parts, then it doesn't deserve to be called a Supra (or a Toyota for that matter).
 
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My thoughts exactly. Given the Z4 proportions, and if it ends up sharing a lot of BMW parts, then it doesn't deserve to be called a Supra (or a Toyota for that matter).
What the hell is going on at ToMoCo? Are the bean counters fighting back where they don't want to spend more of their budget on R&D? It seems like they have to partner up with so many companies nowadays....the 86 is half Subaru, the iA is half Mazda. They seemingly want to outsource more of their performance cars. Do they not trust their in-house companies to do this? TRD?
 

CIF

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What the hell is going on at ToMoCo? Are the bean counters fighting back where they don't want to spend more of their budget on R&D? It seems like they have to partner up with so many companies nowadays....the 86 is half Subaru, the iA is half Mazda. They seemingly want to outsource more of their performance cars. Do they not trust their in-house companies to do this? TRD?

Something is definitely amiss, but at this point I'm really not sure exactly what. What's really mind-boggling is Akio Toyoda's passion for performance vehicles, and the fact that he almost single-handedly made the LFA and IS F happen completely in-house. The 86 and this thing are totally different stories though.

To me, this is probably the most valuable question I could ask of Toyota right now; why did partnerships have to happen for both the 86 and now this "Supra"?
 

supra93

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Let's be honest now, the 86 is a Toyota shell over a Subaru. It does have Toyota's auto tranny and their DS4 system, but still. The iA is nothing more than a rebadge Mazda.
 

oem_is300

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I think the 86 works. Part of why that car is so good is the balance they were able to achieve with the boxer engine. They went so Subaru who are more experienced with that layout. I'm a huge fan of the car and I think that collaboration worked out well. It's also not a Supra which is one of the pinnacle 90s Japanese sports cars. In my opinion, cars like that need to be kept/developed in house.
 

mikeavelli

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I'm really curious where Toyota is headed here. In the past the GT-R/Supra/NSX were on par with one another performance wise even though they did it very differently. The GT-R has been around 10 years and has exotic performance for still a much lower price, even over 100k now. The NSX has moved upmarket in price and tech with the hybrid.

What will Toyota bring with the Supra? In the past there was always the N/A model and the twin turbo model. Will they have this apply this strategy again?

Toyota is super light lipped about the car. Most all I've heard is "it looks like the concept" which makes sense considering the success of the LC...

As for pricing this could get interesting for the RC F which is a 65-85k car before discounting. The Supra has always been a 4 seater and surely will drive amazing considering recent Toyota/Lexus success. Pricing will likely be around that range. No way this is a 50k car when a loaded Sienna/4-runner is 50k.
 

supra93

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The Z4 is priced in the $50k-$60k price range. Kevin Hunter has also hinted at this price point.