5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread
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If the LS is a flop, it is a money loser. Keeping it longer in the same state is only worse, so a new/redsigned LS is not unreasonable.
Keeping a poor selling car not updating it is an Infiniti strategy, and we see where it brought them. Of course flagship cannot be compared to high volume, but anyway....
Gecko
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2024 Cadillac Celestiq AWD First Look: Must Be Seen To Be Believed
The $300,000-plus Celestiq is the advanced, expensive, and bespoke Cadillac you probably never expected.
I think this is what the future of the LS should look like, but "When?" I am less sure about. I would assume 2025-2027 and have heard two things:
- Lexus is not saying much to corporate employees about the next gen/future LS but they have been pretty transparent about future products. Translation: If they had news, they'd start teasing it.
- The only comment that has been made is that they don't want it to get stale and "too old" like the last one did.
Falling sedan market + transition to BEV in the luxury space = next LS is probably going to have to be dramatic, unique and beautiful to pull people away from SUVs, and it's probably also going to have to be electric. I won't be surprised if the next LS is a true full-size, dramatic 4 door coupe styled vehicle that leaves the traditional sedan shopper looking at the ES. There's just no market space left for the LS as it is.
With Lexus' plans to be fully electric by 2030, a ~2025 or later LS would need to be as such, and if the LS has always been the forerunner of Lexus' future, I can't see how it wouldn't be electric. ~2025 is also when next gen battery tech is supposed to be viable.
The only thing I could see happening is a more dramatic refresh of the current vehicle in ~2024 to last us until an all-new 2026-2027 model year LS BEV. Remember that Lexus debuted the LS+ concept vehicle right after the 5th generation LS was revealed and they look an awful lot alike. Maybe that was a coincidence, maybe not.
A version of that concept with production front and rear styling, a revised interior, and only offering the iForce Max powertrain could probably be quite perfect for current market conditions and buy Lexus plenty of time to finalize the BEV LS. It could also be considered an interim step to full electric for Lexus marketing.
bogglo
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With the current design elements of Lexus, I think a new LS with this design will fit perfectly into the mix. Also looking at the grill and the tail light on this concept I will say the new RX might have benefitted from it and the and the LX benefitted from the bold DRL on this concept.2024 Cadillac Celestiq AWD First Look: Must Be Seen To Be Believed
The $300,000-plus Celestiq is the advanced, expensive, and bespoke Cadillac you probably never expected.www.motortrend.com
I think this is what the future of the LS should look like, but "When?" I am less sure about. I would assume 2025-2027 and have heard two things:
- Lexus is not saying much to corporate employees about the next gen/future LS but they have been pretty transparent about future products. Translation: If they had news, they'd start teasing it.
- The only comment that has been made is that they don't want it to get stale and "too old" like the last one did.
Falling sedan market + transition to BEV in the luxury space = next LS is probably going to have to be dramatic, unique and beautiful to pull people away from SUVs, and it's probably also going to have to be electric. I won't be surprised if the next LS is a true full-size, dramatic 4 door coupe styled vehicle that leaves the traditional sedan shopper looking at the ES. There's just no market space left for the LS as it is.
With Lexus' plans to be fully electric by 2030, a ~2025 or later LS would need to be as such, and if the LS has always been the forerunner of Lexus' future, I can't see how it wouldn't be electric. ~2025 is also when next gen battery tech is supposed to be viable.
The only thing I could see happening is a more dramatic refresh of the current vehicle in ~2024 to last us until an all-new 2026-2027 model year LS BEV. Remember that Lexus debuted the LS+ concept vehicle right after the 5th generation LS was revealed and they look an awful lot alike. Maybe that was a coincidence, maybe not.
A version of that concept with production front and rear styling, a revised interior, and only offering the iForce Max powertrain could probably be quite perfect for current market conditions and buy Lexus plenty of time to finalize the BEV LS. It could also be considered an interim step to full electric for Lexus marketing.
Luxury-Sedan Showdown: 2023 Genesis G90 vs. 2022 Lexus LS500 vs. 2022 Mercedes-Benz S500
Given its age I'm not too surprised to see where it ended although I find their commentary particularly on the design part to be quite offensive actually.
Given its age I'm not too surprised to see where it ended although I find their commentary particularly on the design part to be quite offensive actually.
Gecko
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I agree, but since the LS was always the flagship and "crown jewel of Lexus," I wonder what vehicle fills that spot now? LX doesn't have nearly as many luxury or tech features as the 5 year old LS does.
LC maybe?
Based on what I'm hearing, I might even say TX could be regarded as Lexus' most impressive, forward looking vehicle. Time will tell.
mikeavelli
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I don’t agree with his ending conclusion at all but another high quality episode. A lot of Lexus talk and driving the LS 400 and 500h. He immediately notes Acura and Infiniti are irrelevant.
Crazy to see him driving the 500h and remarking how sporty and good it drives. In comparison the G90 drives like poop in anyway besides cruising. It is a very old school luxury car.
I came away with this that the LS just needs a bump in investment to get it back on top or near tops.
Crazy to see him driving the 500h and remarking how sporty and good it drives. In comparison the G90 drives like poop in anyway besides cruising. It is a very old school luxury car.
I came away with this that the LS just needs a bump in investment to get it back on top or near tops.
Och
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Was so refreshing to see the original LS in the video, it looks better and better every year compared to the modern cars that look like aids.
Hopefully we get a redesign or big refresh with the LFR's TTV8 with a hybrid. That would be so smooth I'd imagine, the Tundra hybrid I've seen in reviews in it's smooth cuz of that hybrid, can't imagine what a LS with a TTV8 + hybrid would be.
Maybe at the time of 5th LS's launch, it was a relatively sporty car in its segment, but that's no longer the case when they decided to tone down sportiness for comfort with its facelift. Meanwhile the W223 has yet again proved to be the class leader in every category......I just have a hard time believing that the new one will be able to keep up its competitiveness.
Ian Schmidt
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The 2021 flings around curves just as well as the 2018. (Ask me why I'm not getting the rated MPG, LOL!)
bogglo
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A rebadged century as LS will still be criticized because of its interior design not because of its quality. As for its its appearance that will definitely not be questioned IMO.
This is the way. The LS brand has lost much of its weight in the last couple of generations, especially the last one. It needs either an electric or full hydrogen reboot, but the only option for them now seems to be full BEV to challenge the Tesla and EQS.
An increase in investment is a must along with the reboot, otherwise it risks further irrelevance ala Infiniti Q, after the G90 has sadly taken on the “4th option” title. I don’t believe the LS has placed higher in any comparisons against the G90.
I don't think Lexus cares about that segment as much as they did 15 years ago. We'd all want to see a fully redesigned LS with TTV8 hybrid with redone interior but I don't think that's gonna happen. Meanwhile Genesis is busy playing catch up with a segment that's dead lol. That's the problem with Genesis that people don't understand, they try to out do everyone when they know they will never sell as much vehicles. People think Genesis will be a big brand but that's not gonna happen any time soon. Lol my short rant wasn't planned here.
Gecko
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I agree with you. The G90 could place #1 over S Class, 7er, A8 and LS in every test by a 50-point margin and Genesis is still playing a losing game. It's the sad truth, but this segment is declining and those who still buy here want the S Class. Genesis, like Lexus, is/was symbolically trying to capture the segment that used to represent flagship luxury to the masses... and now, times have changed.
I think the only future for the LS is to become more of a dramatic technology statement for Lexus, probably along the lines of a four door LC. ES can and is already capturing the buyer looking for a traditional three-box luxury sedan, so there's no market for the LS left there. Elevating it to be uber luxury, uber tech, EV performance is the only way I see to create something different enough from the ES on the low end and the S/7 on the high end, while design and performance will be critical in making a "want it" case against SUVs.
This generation LS actually came very close to this promise thanks to GA-L and much better chassis and suspension tuning, but it has fallen short in the powertrain department and interior design, and probably needs a bit more drama to step out from the crowd.
A 550+hp, 500+mile EV LS with this type of profile and a high tech luxury interior would be the type of car that people WANT from Lexus.
I think the only future for the LS is to become more of a dramatic technology statement for Lexus, probably along the lines of a four door LC. ES can and is already capturing the buyer looking for a traditional three-box luxury sedan, so there's no market for the LS left there. Elevating it to be uber luxury, uber tech, EV performance is the only way I see to create something different enough from the ES on the low end and the S/7 on the high end, while design and performance will be critical in making a "want it" case against SUVs.
This generation LS actually came very close to this promise thanks to GA-L and much better chassis and suspension tuning, but it has fallen short in the powertrain department and interior design, and probably needs a bit more drama to step out from the crowd.
A 550+hp, 500+mile EV LS with this type of profile and a high tech luxury interior would be the type of car that people WANT from Lexus.
It's gorgeous. But ppl will still criticize cabin space if it's meant to be an S class competitor, unless they make something similar to the Panamera or a 4-door GT car in which comfort is prioritized with some sportiness. It would be a commercial success if it sells in volume similar to the Panamera did. LS gran coupe maybe?
Gor134
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I don't think the full size luxury segment is in too much of a decline. Instead, I think customers want a full size car that makes a statement. Like you said, a lower, sleeker more style oriented LS with a long dash.
New S and EQS are all about the bling and interior shiney bits. The 7 and i7 has a polarizing ugly exterior, but it makes a statement and stands out, and has a "digital bling" interior as explained by BMW execs. The current A8 has failed due to becoming a less style, more tech understated option which still sees some sales, but is being replaced in a few years by the production version of the very stylish Grand Sphere concept. The G90 is obviously the "classical choice". And don't forget the Celestiq, although a much more expensive car, is designed to make a statement and be a long, eye catching vehicle in the road.
Lexus could possibly succeed this segment by becoming way more style oriented like the LC and grand. But of course would require a huge investment by Lexus, which I don't think they will attempt until they move to full EV.
New S and EQS are all about the bling and interior shiney bits. The 7 and i7 has a polarizing ugly exterior, but it makes a statement and stands out, and has a "digital bling" interior as explained by BMW execs. The current A8 has failed due to becoming a less style, more tech understated option which still sees some sales, but is being replaced in a few years by the production version of the very stylish Grand Sphere concept. The G90 is obviously the "classical choice". And don't forget the Celestiq, although a much more expensive car, is designed to make a statement and be a long, eye catching vehicle in the road.
Lexus could possibly succeed this segment by becoming way more style oriented like the LC and grand. But of course would require a huge investment by Lexus, which I don't think they will attempt until they move to full EV.