5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[Rydo]

Here's the thing, despite us all wanting V8's, the 5LS genuinely offers V8-level power. It's f*cking fast. It's also not that overweight for what it is. LOOK at how much it offers in terms of features and sheer luxury.

0-60 in 4.5 seconds is no slouch. The V35A-FTS is torquey as hell and has a WIDE powerband, and it effortlessly rides on that fat torque curve until redline. Gearing would help the LS have a faster acceleration off the line. In fact, faster gearing would make it way quicker. I don't know why Lexus doesn't make gears 1-7 super close and make gears 8-10 as cruising gears and gear it for fuel economy.

The LS500 is an order of magnitude faster, quicker, and handles better than the G90, A8, and the S450. I'd be more confident sitting behind the wheel of the LS and wipe the floor clean with the other 3 (though the S450 is amazing as a luxury car and it clearly resides in first place in the entire flagship luxury sedan segment). The only cars that would beat the LS is obviously the BMW (the B58 if not greatest, is one of the greatest inline-six engines of all time, also it allows you to build boost like crazy and launch hard) and the Tesla (instant torque from electric motors, duh). That's not bad in my opinion. We're going to get our V8 and our more powerful turbo-hybrid motors in the LS500 soon so I'm not worried one bit about this car.

Unfortunately due to the TNGA-L platform it is obviously heavy but as a result it's one of most stiffest Lexus' ever built and one of the best handling in its entire segment. There's a reason why I say the LS is one of the better Lexus' ever built and contrary to you guys I actually think it's in a fine position as it is. Let me clarify, I'm not worried about the LS500, but the LS in general needs more options as a whole. The car needs more variety in powertrains and interior color/design options.

I do admit that the car world unnecessarily gets caught up in a game of Top Trumps almost permanently. It’s that kind of mentality that has caused reviewers of the LC for instance to overlook its immense styling and glorious soundtrack in favour of saying its slower than x y and z. The problem with that mentality is that one will never be satisfied. It just hurts us all to think the LS isn’t the cream of the crop.

 

[Gecko]

Here's the thing, despite us all wanting V8's, the 5LS genuinely offers V8-level power. It's f*cking fast. It's also not that overweight for what it is. LOOK at how much it offers in terms of features and sheer luxury.

0-60 in 4.5 seconds is no slouch. The V35A-FTS is torquey as hell and has a WIDE powerband, and it effortlessly rides on that fat torque curve until redline. Gearing would help the LS have a faster acceleration off the line. In fact, faster gearing would make it way quicker. I don't know why Lexus doesn't make gears 1-7 super close and make gears 8-10 as cruising gears and gear it for fuel economy.

The LS500 is an order of magnitude faster, quicker, and handles better than the G90, A8, and the S450. I'd be more confident sitting behind the wheel of the LS and wipe the floor clean with the other 3 (though the S450 is amazing as a luxury car and it clearly resides in first place in the entire flagship luxury sedan segment). The only cars that would beat the LS is obviously the BMW (the B58 if not greatest, is one of the greatest inline-six engines of all time, also it allows you to build boost like crazy and launch hard) and the Tesla (instant torque from electric motors, duh). That's not bad in my opinion. We're going to get our V8 and our more powerful turbo-hybrid motors in the LS500 soon so I'm not worried one bit about this car.

Unfortunately due to the TNGA-L platform it is obviously heavy but as a result it's one of most stiffest Lexus' ever built and one of the best handling in its entire segment. There's a reason why I say the LS is one of the better Lexus' ever built and contrary to you guys I actually think it's in a fine position as it is. Let me clarify, I'm not worried about the LS500, but the LS in general needs more options as a whole. The car needs more variety in powertrains and interior color/design options.

Unfortunately, the LS has not proven to be that fast, and it’s confirmed by almost any media who have independently tested it. Most of the 0-60 times are 5.2 - 5.3 seconds, which is plenty brisk, but it’s not close to what Lexus claims and not even close to the V8 power of S560 or 750i. My point about the gearing is that for the entire first half second to second that you mash the throttle, the car doesn’t go anywhere or do anything. It’s all gearing and the acceleration lag is almost as bad as the old infamous ES 330/RX 330.

For passing power 60mph+, it’s extremely quick in my experience but off the line, the throttle response is all wrong and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds must have been obtained with a car that did not have final production gearing. I’ve driven four different LS 500s from 2018-2020 and all are just as laggy off the line, sadly. Thankfully for Lexus, the transmission gearing and pedal response are easy to fix - if they want to.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Unfortunately, the LS has not proven to be that fast, and it’s confirmed by almost any media who have independently tested it. Most of the 0-60 times are 5.2 - 5.3 seconds, which is plenty brisk, but it’s not close to what Lexus claims and not even close to the V8 power of S560 or 750i. My point about the gearing is that for the entire first half second to second that you mash the throttle, the car doesn’t go anywhere or do anything. It’s all gearing and the acceleration lag is almost as bad as the old infamous ES 330/RX 330.

For passing power 60mph+, it’s extremely quick in my experience but off the line, the throttle response is all wrong and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds must have been obtained with a car that did not have final production gearing. I’ve driven four different LS 500s from 2018-2020 and all are just as laggy off the line, sadly. Thankfully for Lexus, the transmission gearing and pedal response are easy to fix - if they want to.

I would say gearing is responsible for a solid half-second increase sprint to 60 mph. The issue is that the meaty, juicy torque is not being used at its best unfortunately. Long gears neuters the torque massively.

 

[ssun30]

Gearing and calibration are two different things. Actually the gearing on the 10AT is optimized exactly for 0-60mph with only one shift. It's a bit longer than the old 8AT which requires two shifts. Even though the 2nd gear may be a bit slower due to lower torque magnification, one shift to 60mph is almost always faster than two shifts because in the latter case the 3rd gear has an even lower torque magnification. That's why most high performance cars have longer 2nd to make it one shift to 100km/h. The LS500 AWD has a shorter final drive requiring two shifts and it makes it slower than the RWD despite having more traction off the line.

Turbocharged engines actually prefer long, widely spaced gears to utilize that wide power band (at least for road cars). Just look at the ZF8HP, the inter-gear ratios are higher than 1.3 which is quite wide and it works wonders on the B48/58. Shift at 6500rpm and falls to 5000rpm where the engine still makes peak power. From 0-250 km/h a 340i always accelerates at peak power like a BEV.

The real problem is the ECU is too hesitant to demand full boost on the turbo. Usually it's to reduce emissions because the transient stage is very fuel-rich (the engine needs to generate hot exhaust gas to spool up the turbo thus requesting a richer mixture and less EGR). It also temporarily creates high heat load on the turbocharger which potentially reduces reliability. Therefore most manufacturers have very different mapping for Eco/Normal mode and Sport mode. The very aggressive mapping in sport mode on the B48/58 is almost like a software-based anti-lag system. The negative effect is debated but I've seen discussions among powertrain calibration engineers (from BMW, PSA and GM) saying the extra fuel consumption and emissions is negligible over the lifetime of the vehicle. It seems that Lexus follows a different philosophy. The worst offender is the 8AR-FTS which is a brilliantly-engineered engine ruined by poor mapping.

My point about the gearing is that for the entire first half second to second that you mash the throttle, the car doesn’t go anywhere or do anything. It’s all gearing and the acceleration lag is almost as bad as the old infamous ES 330/RX 330.

For passing power 60mph+, it’s extremely quick in my experience but off the line, the throttle response is all wrong and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds must have been obtained with a car that did not have final production gearing. I’ve driven four different LS 500s from 2018-2020 and all are just as laggy off the line, sadly. Thankfully for Lexus, the transmission gearing and pedal response are easy to fix - if they want to.

This seems to be agreed by OVTune's initial examination of the V35A-FTS mapping. The focus is on smoothness and passing power instead of outright acceleration at WOT. It's not exactly like the 8AR which is lazy both off the line and when passing.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

0-60 in 4.5 seconds is no slouch. The V35A-FTS is torquey as hell and has a WIDE powerband, and it effortlessly rides on that fat torque curve until redline. Gearing would help the LS have a faster acceleration off the line. In fact, faster gearing would make it way quicker. I don't know why Lexus doesn't make gears 1-7 super close and make gears 8-10 as cruising gears and gear it for fuel economy.

I've driven my LS500 at triple-digit MPH and it feels effortless, as you'd expect for a car in that class.

The gearing is clearly oriented towards smoothness. At a minimum the F-Sport should have sportier gearing and there need to be a lot more options in general. It's flat-out stupid that you can't get an F-Sport with the luxury package.

 

[Will1991]

Seeing this:


It certainly has a superb sound isolation at 0:20, and even at 265km/h when he lift off it's quite good!

When it reaches 200km/h without any acceleration it seems whisper quiet.

 

[TurboLag]

The face-lift is real !!
coming next year? all I can tell from the photo is a new headlights and new lower front bumper ?
https://mag-x.jp/2020/04/23/13664/

 

[CRSKTN]

They've pulled back the headlights. I like it.
Full size photo:

EDIT: I am sort of getting... GS vibes. Look at the 3/4 profile of the headlight with the front bumper. Reminds me of the GS F. Also the headlight design is going the LS+ route a bit.

 

[Sebass]

I am extremely excited to see what this thing is gonna look like if it, (finger crossed) is shown off next year. Then again, aren't we supposed to get a new level 2 autonomous highway system in the LS sometime this year? If so, then wouldn't it make more sense for this mid-cycle refresh LS to debut this year for the 2021 model year? If the refreshed LS is shown off this year, it will probably be the biggest and most extensive mid-cycle refresh any Lexus model has ever gotten. Think about it, if everything we've heard is true, then the updated LS will get new exterior looks, most likely get the same infotainment system in the 2020 RX, (or an even better system 😀), it would get that new 2.4l turbo, the return of the 600h with a v8! level 2 autonomy on the highway, and probably new exterior/interior colors. Hey, who knows, maybe even an LS F. 😏 I recall an article from 2017 published by Autoevolution, that detailed how their photographers had caught Lexus testing a black LS somewhere in southern Europe. The car looked exactly like a normal LS, the only difference being that it had a lip spoiler and that it sounded, "very loud for a Lexus." This doesn't at all prove that there is an LS F coming, but even if that car testing was the 600h, I find it unlikely that that specific car would have had a loud exhaust note. I expect the 600h to be perhaps the most refined and smooth LS, not exactly loudest. I am not completely sold that Lexus will make an LS F, (especially with no trademark), but the fact that the test car was so loud is certainly some food for thought.
Anyway, despite all these exciting rumors, one thing that really interests me about this mid-cycle refresh LS is what it will look like. The current LS already has Lexus's most up to date design language, and I really want to know where they are gonna go with its styling.
My biggest concern with this upcoming refresh, (if the leaks are true), is for one the fact that the LS will get a 4 cylinder. I am guessing it will not make it to the U.S, but I still fear that it will feel unrefined and unfitting for the car, that it will water down the LS nameplate. My second concern is that the 600h will use an eCVT or the fake 10 speed in the LS500h and LC500h. Lexus can pour as much money into CVT's as much as they want, but they will never be as fun to drive or feel as good as the 10 speed does. My last concern is that the 600h uses the current 5.0l V8. Although a brilliant engine, it feels wrong to put a 10+ year-old V8 that is about to be replaced in your flagship car, which will at minimum use the engine for another 3 years.
I have probably rambled on too long and wasted a few minutes to many talking about info that hasn't even been confirmed.

Here is that Autoevolution article:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...spotted-could-pack-twin-turbo-v8-119605.html#

 

[Will1991]

I’m not seeing Lexus reviving the old 600h using the old system...

That picture is giving a facelift RC vibe, I'm digging it.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

The face-lift is real !!
coming next year? all I can tell from the photo is a new headlights and new lower front bumper ?
https://mag-x.jp/2020/04/23/13664/

I ran that MagX article through Google Translate, and it does touch upon some of what @Sebass mentions in his post.

...aren't we supposed to get a new level 2 autonomous highway system in the LS sometime this year? If so, then wouldn't it make more sense for this mid-cycle refresh LS to debut this year for the 2021 model year?

From the MagX article via Google Translate: "(A)n autonomous driving demonstration, which was sponsored by JMA, was scheduled to be held on July 6th to 12th this year, but it has been postponed due to the recent Corona disaster... Toyota originally planned a ride experience, but this too will be postponed."

If the refreshed LS is shown off this year, it will probably be the biggest and most extensive mid-cycle refresh any Lexus model has ever gotten.

I will respectfully disagree. This looks like a fairly routine facelift/refresh. Notice that there is no camo on the hood, nor beyond the front fenders. This appears to be less extensive than the mid-cycle changes 4LS received for the 2013 model year.

it would get that new 2.4l turbo...My biggest concern with this upcoming refresh, (if the leaks are true), is for one the fact that the LS will get a 4 cylinder. I am guessing it will not make it to the U.S, but I still fear that it will feel unrefined and unfitting for the car, that it will water down the LS nameplate.

Agreed on your concerns and thoughts on a 4-cylinder LS. The translation of the MagX article appears vague on that point, though: "...direct 4 gasoline vehicles, which are not in the competition, will also be lined up for downsizing. It may be aimed to fill the position of the Lexus GS, which disappears from the lineup this summer".

...the return of the 600h with a v8! ...My last concern is that the 600h uses the current 5.0l V8. Although a brilliant engine, it feels wrong to put a 10+ year-old V8 that is about to be replaced in your flagship car, which will at minimum use the engine for another 3 years.

The article does affirm the revival of a V8 hybrid LS 600h, but it's an open question whether it would simply bring back the 2UR-FSE 5-liter V8 hybrid powertrain from 4LS Hybrid and current Toyota Century (an engine dating to 2006) or utilize a rumored new Dynamic Force V8.

 

[Berto3818]

What if they hybridized the 3.5 TTV6? That would be close to 500Hp.. remember they are putting that in the new tundra so I’m thinking that will be in the next hybrid.

 

[Sebass]

I ran that MagX article through Google Translate, and it does touch upon some of what @Sebass mentions in his post.


From the MagX article via Google Translate: "(A)n autonomous driving demonstration, which was sponsored by JMA, was scheduled to be held on July 6th to 12th this year, but it has been postponed due to the recent Corona disaster... Toyota originally planned a ride experience, but this too will be postponed."


I will respectfully disagree. This looks like a fairly routine facelift/refresh. Notice that there is no camo on the hood, nor beyond the front fenders. This appears to be less extensive than the mid-cycle changes 4LS received for the 2013 model year.


Agreed on your concerns and thoughts on a 4-cylinder LS. The translation of the MagX article appears vague on that point, though: "...direct 4 gasoline vehicles, which are not in the competition, will also be lined up for downsizing. It may be aimed to fill the position of the Lexus GS, which disappears from the lineup this summer".


The article does affirm the revival of a V8 hybrid LS 600h, but it's an open question whether it would simply bring back the 2UR-FSE 5-liter V8 hybrid powertrain from 4LS Hybrid and current Toyota Century (an engine dating to 2006) or utilize a rumored new Dynamic Force V8.

Thank you for clarifying my questions. The reason I said that this LS refresh would be the biggest refresh any Lexus has ever gotten, wasn't really because of the looks, but because of the new powertrains and the autonomous driving technology. (Come to think of it, many lexus models get new/revised powertrains after mid cycle refreshes.) If the refresh does bring level 2 autonomy to the LS, it would be quite a big deal and all jounalsists would be comparing it to Super Cruise or Tesla's autopilot.
As for the 4 cylinder, your explenation of why they may do this makes sense, but I think it is a mistake. Can you imagine if they put a 4 banger in the LC? 😭
It really sucks that the driving event for the new level 2 highway autonomy system, (which may have also been the driving experience for the refreshed LS), has been canceled due to the Coronavirus shutdown. I get a bad feeling that Lexus may unfortunately show nothing new this year. 😥. I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[TurboLag]

Thank you for clarifying my questions. The reason I said that this LS refresh would be the biggest refresh any Lexus has ever gotten, wasn't really because of the looks, but because of the new powertrains and the autonomous driving technology. (Come to think of it, many lexus models get new/revised powertrains after mid cycle refreshes.) If the refresh does bring level 2 autonomy to the LS, it would be quite a big deal and all jounalsists would be comparing it to Super Cruise or Tesla's autopilot.
As for the 4 cylinder, your explenation of why they may do this makes sense, but I think it is a mistake. Can you imagine if they put a 4 banger in the LC? 😭
It really sucks that the driving event for the new level 2 highway autonomy system, (which may have also been the driving experience for the refreshed LS), has been canceled due to the Coronavirus shutdown. I get a bad feeling that Lexus may unfortunately show nothing new this year. 😥. I really hope I'm wrong.

The LS350 ( not available in the US ) sells more in my country than the 500 & the 500h , its noticeably cheaper , and BMW also offer the 7 Series withe a 2.0 Liter inline four cylinder ( the 730i & 730li ) .
more options for the LS i think its better in my opinion

 

[TurboLag]

🤔 🤔

 

[LexsCTJill]

🤔 🤔
View attachment 3899

I don’t understand why the black part is circled.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

I don’t understand why the black part is circled.

The way I understand it, in the top picture @TurboLag is pointing out (via red circle) the black quadrilateral "patch" on the front fender next to the driver's door of the white autonomous LS.

In the bottom picture, there's a tear in the white camo in roughly that same area (also signaled via red circle) of the disguised facelift 2021 LS. That implies, to me, that this is some sort of semi-autonomous driving sensor that appears (in reduced form) in the upcoming LS.

At least, that's my best guess.

 

[LexsCTJill]

Thanks

 

[Hakop Fetulagian]

Found this on instagram, LS Facelift?

 

[CT200h]

Side sensor . For the drive assist lane change system ?
Seems likely , also are we sureness this pic is LS and maybe not the new IS sedan ?
Just had to ask