That's my opinion as well. I mentioned somewhere else on this forum that P2 is superior for power density and continuous output. This is why I still can't say with certainty what hybrid layout they will use for the upcoming hybrid trucks. After all they developed a P2 system for their Hino trucks.
NA 2.5l 4 cylinder PHEV with 300hp called LS450h+? Whattt? That’s a 200 name jump from what it would normally be called “LS250” a flagship with the exact same setup as a RAV4 is weird to say the least.A thought that crossed my mind this morning: Might the 4-cylinder powertrain for 5LS be a longitudinal application of the RAV4 Prime / upcoming Lexus NX 450h+ power plant? In other words, a plug-in hybrid version of the A25A-FXS 2.5-liter 4-cylinder naturally aspirated engine that (in the RAV4 Prime) produces 302 hp? Thus, an LS 450h+?
Doesn’t the LS350 already makes 310hp with its 3.5NAV6?
The current LS500h already uses 3.5l NAV6 hybrid, and it uses an outdated V6 that isn’t worth the name when the LS500 makes more power. So a new TTV6 hybrid will most likely still be called LS500h, while the non hybrid LS500 gets removed or gets downgraded to LS400, and the LS350 gets 2.4l turbo and downgraded to LS300.
Or LS500h and LS600h both get the same TTV6 hybrid but with different tuning, with 400hp and 500hp respectively.
If they do make a 500+hp LS, might as well use the 600 hp+ TTV8 4.0l PHEV that would be extremely powerful yet efficient, and call it LSF instead of LS700h which sounds weird as hell and isn’t justified when it’s barely more powerful than the LS500.
I think it’s time to make a real flagship performance sedan that also give Lexus an opportunity to show off their hybrid tech.
A thought that crossed my mind this morning: Might the 4-cylinder powertrain for 5LS be a longitudinal application of the RAV4 Prime / upcoming Lexus NX 450h+ power plant? In other words, a plug-in hybrid version of the A25A-FXS 2.5-liter 4-cylinder naturally aspirated engine that (in the RAV4 Prime) produces 302 hp? Thus, an LS 450h+?
LS400 or LS500: TTV6 with 450hp, the same setup as the current LS500 but updated power output or just keep the LS500 name.I'm not sure Lexus has anymore leeway to play with the badges once more. They learned their lesson with 200t to 300 and if they are reasonable people they will not repeat the same mistake again and for sure they will not downsize the badges. 500h will remain what it is today and 600h will be more expensive, more powerful option. If it ends up being V6TT Hybrid (most likely) I'm not sure how they are going to differentiate it from the version that will go into Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser or similar. Who knows maybe 600h will be V8TT hybrid after all.
I find it weird if the only Lexus F vehicle be the LCF coming out in 2022. The RCF will most likely be killed by then, with no ISF and GSF.In a contracting passenger car market, I think we're realistically looking at fewer models vs. more, with different options for different markets. On the other hand, I think some new models need to be added to help sales, prestige and halo effect for the rest of the lineup. At least in the USA, not sure it's worth having both LS500h and LS 600h - most people willing to pay for the 500h would just pay a little more to get to 600h.
"500h" is a good powertrain for middle of the lineup, like ES and RX. It is not a great fit for the LS. "600h" with 450hp/500lb-ft is right for flagship products IMO.
My ideal LS lineup would be something like (with all global markets considered):
LS 450h+: (maybe 2.4L turbo) 4 cylinder + PHEV with 350hp/390lb-ft (not for USA)
LS 450: TT V6 as-is, base price drops to ~$70k base USD
LS 600h: 3.5L TT V6 + next gen hybrid with 450hp/500lb-ft, from $85k USD
LS 600: TT V8 with 550hp, 580lb-ft, from $95k USD
While I would love to see an "LS F," I think "LS 600" with a slightly detuned version of the F V8 but with crazy luxury option packages makes more sense for the LS line.
Didn't we hear somewhere that LS FCV was dropped?
That's pretty much on point. The 450h doesn't really need to be PHV though since current batteries will have difficulty propelling a car this heavy in pure-EV mode, unless they 'cheat' and only allow blended/EV-auto mode like the 7-series/S-class/A8L PHVs. Also makes it cheaper for ChDM. IMO the 2.4T LS is just an answer to the very popular 730Li in ChDM, and a future four-cylinder A8L as well. The S90L and CT6 also use 2.0T engines but these two aren't direct competitors to the LS.My ideal LS lineup would be something like (with all global markets considered):
LS 450h+: (maybe 2.4L turbo) 4 cylinder + PHEV with 350hp/390lb-ft (not for USA)
LS 450: TT V6 as-is, base price drops to ~$70k base USD
LS 600h: 3.5L TT V6 + next gen hybrid with 450hp/500lb-ft, from $85k USD
LS 600: TT V8 with 550hp, 580lb-ft, from $95k USD
Unlikely, the A25A-FXS is insufficient to propel this car. A slightly long gradient will drain the battery and the car is basically powerless at that point. It needs a bigger ICE.A thought that crossed my mind this morning: Might the 4-cylinder powertrain for 5LS be a longitudinal application of the RAV4 Prime / upcoming Lexus NX 450h+ power plant? In other words, a plug-in hybrid version of the A25A-FXS 2.5-liter 4-cylinder naturally aspirated engine that (in the RAV4 Prime) produces 302 hp? Thus, an LS 450h+?
They've pulled back the headlights. I like it.
Full size photo:
EDIT: I am sort of getting... GS vibes. Look at the 3/4 profile of the headlight with the front bumper. Reminds me of the GS F. Also the headlight design is going the LS+ route a bit.
I don’t think what’s needed or not matters for the LS, the LS should have the best technology TMC has, regardless if the application is needed or not. Or else Tesla never needed to constantly updating their BEV with faster 0-60c nor does Lexus needs to be reliable, nor if the LS could hold champagne glass on its hood while the engine is on.That's pretty much on point. The 450h doesn't really need to be PHV though since current batteries will have difficulty propelling a car this heavy in pure-EV mode, unless they 'cheat' and only allow blended/EV-auto mode like the 7-series/S-class/A8L PHVs. Also makes it cheaper for ChDM. IMO the 2.4T LS is just an answer to the very popular 730Li in ChDM, and a future four-cylinder A8L as well. The S90L and CT6 also use 2.0T engines but these two aren't direct competitors to the LS.
I would really love to see a 'LS600e' with LF-30 battery (110kWh with 400kW/536hp) considering this technology is readily available in 2019.
Unlikely, the A25A-FXS is insufficient to propel this car. A slightly long gradient will drain the battery and the car is basically powerless at that point. It needs a bigger ICE.
I find it weird if the only Lexus F vehicle be the LCF coming out in 2022. The RCF will most likely be killed by then, with no ISF and GSF.
Even if both GSF and RCF still exist by then, they would be 6 years old. Even if the LF1/LQ do come out in 2022, the F will probably come out who know? 5 years after? The same time it would take LCF to come out, and by that time, the LCF will probably be killed based on Lexus’s killing spree.
I think Lexus should crack the 500hp mark with their LS hybrid and another LS with over 600hp whether it’s called LSF or LS600. The hybrid would be the crazy luxury car similar to Maybach for S Class but without the longer wheel base.
Based on MagX, the TTV8 LS might as well be the LSF because how I understand it, the TTV8 is the for sure thing and the 600h is the speculation.
I really wish to see a LCF, LSF, and LQF? on the market at the same time, even if for just one generation.
If the LS FCV is dead, then I have high hope that a GS “successor” will become the Lexus FCV based on the Murai.
I don't personally know how much longer "F" will live on - it was born at a time when Lexus and the automotive industry were both very different. F started as a great idea and had lots of promise, but I think it's safe to say that has not been delivered upon. Losing the GS, the market switch to CUVs and a future that is probably based in FWD platforms make F seem like another project with good intentions and poor execution.
I'd settle for F being as good as GR is looking on the Toyota side, although obviously F would be lower volume which is exactly the problem.