4th Generation Toyota Century Thread [Officially Revealed]

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Last time I checked, the new 740i weighs 2130kg and 760i weighs 2310kg. These are exact same weight as the LS500 and LS500h. The X5 50e now weighs 2570kg, almost as much as LX. So it turned out weight isn't a real problem for GA-L in the long run anyway.

LF-1 should never have been cancelled. In fact I have no problem with them retiring the LS name and replace it with LF-1 instead. All that built-in rigidity to handle a V8TT engine would help with ride comfort and have plenty of spare GVM to add even more insulation. 2300kg for a base V35 and up to 2700kg for a V8 PHV should all be well within spec of the overengineered platform, and these are not considered "heavy" nowadays.

Instead, the GA-K platform is now pushed to the absolute limit. The Century SUV weighs 2570kg and LM500h weighs 2500kg. That's growing from a platform targeting vehicles in the 1500-2000kg range. I doubt at such different stress levels, the "big GA-K" actually shares enough components with the regular GA-K to be that cheap to develop and build.

Well from what I'm hearing, TNGA-L is supposed getting heavy revisions to be lighter and more space efficient. If this ends up being true, then I think the poor guys have heard our cries pretty loud and clear.

If the new TNGA-L platform is executed correctly, perhaps that will encourage them to develop RWD crossovers.

 

[Gecko]

Last time I checked, the new 740i weighs 2130kg and 760i weighs 2310kg. These are exact same weight as the LS500 and LS500h. The X5 50e now weighs 2570kg, almost as much as LX. So it turned out weight isn't a real problem for GA-L in the long run anyway.

LF-1 should never have been cancelled. In fact I have no problem with them retiring the LS name and replace it with LF-1 instead. All that built-in rigidity to handle a V8TT engine would help with ride comfort and have plenty of spare GVM to add even more insulation. 2300kg for a base V35 and up to 2700kg for a V8 PHV should all be well within spec of the overengineered platform, and these are not considered "heavy" nowadays.

Instead, the GA-K platform is now pushed to the absolute limit. The Century SUV weighs 2570kg and LM500h weighs 2500kg. That's growing from a platform targeting vehicles in the 1500-2000kg range. I doubt at such different stress levels, the "big GA-K" actually shares enough components with the regular GA-K to be that cheap to develop and build.

Very well said. 5,600lbs for a FWD platform is insane and now GA-L looks light in comparison. LF-1 is Lexus' worst mistake ever.

@F1 Silver Arrows: I want to hope the revised GA-L rumors are true, but I am very skeptical due to the pending transition to EVs and limited use cases for a new RWD platform in the meantime. Reports are that IS is moving to a new BEV chassis and we haven’t heard a word on a new LS. GX and LX are on GA-F, the CUVs are all new and on GA-K.

Toyota deciding to build a new premium GA-L platform at the 11th hour before transitioning to BEV, just for Supra/SC, sounds very un-Toyota to me. I want to believe it but I will when I see it 🤞🏼

 

[Heicho]

I have vacillated between excitement and disappointment and I think that’s normal for any longtime enthusiast of one brand

That describes my experience being an Intel fan ever since AMD came out with Ryzen in 2017. Skylake on 14nm came out in 2015 and its 10nm successor was supposed to launch in 2016. Instead, we got a Skylake refresh after refresh for 5 years straight. AMD reestablished themselves in the CPU space within that period while Intel lost their process node leadership to TSMC. I haven't been keeping up with semiconductors lately but it seems Intel has regained their footing ever since Pat Gelsinger returned as CEO, but I digress.

At least LS has GA-L and LX has GA-F, and both have V35A with 10AT

I think crossovers take a backseat to sedans and BOF SUVs within the TMC family. But it is WILD that not even their most prestigious nameplate avoided that treatment. The LF-1 almost broke that... they knew they needed it to compete better with the flagship CUVs out there over the LX.

I want to hope the revised GA-L rumors are true, but I am very skeptical due to the pending transition to EVs and limited use cases for a new RWD platform in the meantime

I think it makes sense for GR/F products. Solid state batteries are nowhere near ready for BEV applications. The A100 Supra will be built in-house and now we're hearing rumors of a RC/LC consolidated coupe. Given how Toyota is revising all their older TNGA platforms it makes sense they're working on TNGA-L as well.

Toyota deciding to build a new premium GA-L platform at the 11th hour before transitioning to BEV, just for Supra/SC, sounds very un-Toyota to me

So is building a whole new platform and powertrain for the LFR just a few years before their BEV supercar but here we are. I suppose it's their last hurrah for ICEV.

 

[qtb007]

The more I reflect on this Century, the more I am disappointed.

In my time as a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast, I have vacillated between excitement and disappointment and I think that’s normal for any longtime enthusiast of one brand. But I feel like I’ve had this enduring feeling for 15+ years that Lexus isn’t doing enough to keep up with the competition. You can make the case that they’re running the best business model, and I think that’s probably true, but I also think it’s hard to deny that Mercedes and BMW are walking away from Lexus in terms of product and brand image. I often feel like Lexus is doing “just enough.”

Why do I mention that?

LS and LX have been mixed bags, sort of for the same reasons: powertrains are lackluster, technology is behind, and interiors aren’t keeping up with competing models. Those two cars set the tone for Lexus as a brand, and above that in the Toyota ecosystem, you have products like the Century. The best of the best - that was reiterated many times today in the reveal presentation.

For Toyota’s most prestigious global product, they based it on a FWD mainstream architecture with an 18 year old engine block.

Not GA-L, their premium platform.
Not V35A-FTS, their premium motor.

GA-K and GR V6.

I go back to this point about Lexus not going far enough at times and not pushing product enough. At least LS has GA-L and LX has GA-F, and both have V35A with 10AT. That is more than the Century got. Laminating glass and sound deadening an interior aren’t hard. Chassis engineering and power plant tuning are hard. Toyota chose easy.

Think if Toyota had greenlit the LF-1 for production: GA-L CUV with V35A, at a minimum. Toyota could have also used that to share costs and components with the Century. It would have been a natural use case and an opportunity for Lexus to step into a new realm and show some innovation. They didn’t.

V35A + PHEV would have been what, 500hp? 520hp? Premium platform, powertrain. I’m not even sure it would fit, but not even dropping V35A into GA-K to align the Century with LS, LX, Land Cruiser, etc? I see. Century should have been an opportunity for Toyota to flex some muscle and engineer a car that represents their best thinking and manufacturing, instead of just the best version of their midsize FWD platform. I guess that was good enough.

Toyota acts like they want to build mainstream cars but also build a few luxury products out of obligation. Good enough is increasingly… just not good enough.

See: Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, etc.

The V35A isn't coming close to fitting in the same spot as the GR V6. The V6TT takes up a large, square volume when you add on the turbos, intercoolers, etc. IMO, it has to be mounted longitudinally. Starting with a V35A means the Century would have to be built on GA-L. The drivetrain with hybrid already takes up a lot of space in a vehicle like the Tundra and Sequoia that sit high off the ground and can hide the transmission, drive shafts, etc. So the Century you are proposing is a big, tall LS that starts around 2200kg before we add height, before we add PHEV batteries (300kg on their own, likely), before we add ultra luxurious rear accommodations. Since it is longitudinal, the interior space efficiency is also probably worse doing with GA-L versus a FWD platform. IMO, a PHEV GA-L based Century comes out way heavier than 2500kg. For what? An extra 100hp that the person in the back doesn't care about? For a platform that seems "more proper" for the application? The VIPs in the back of these just care about comfort, quiet, and getting out of something that looks big and important. As much as it doesn't seem cool or proper or whatever, the Century on a FWD platform is probably the right call for what the rear seat passengers care about as we transition into electrification.

 

[ssun30]

^^ The Century SUV is not well packaged with GA-K anyway. The cabin is shorter and only slightly taller than Sedan. Yes it's shorter but mostly because now the cargo space is only 340L compared to sedan's 550L.

They managed to make a transverse platform package no better than a longitudinal platform. That's just doing a bad job.

 

[bogglo]

This is my question. What are the guys in Japan Saying are they disappointed or love it? they are the one the car is built for.

 

[CRSKTN]

This is my question. What are the guys in Japan Saying are they disappointed or love it? they are the one the car is built for.

They're gonna sell every single one.

There's an entire generation of nepotism execs, trust fund kids and rare self made people who grew up in / around the sedan, and want something different but with the same connotations in Japan the century has.

I wonder how many groups in Japan stick to Century vehicles for certain use cases and would like SUVs, on their own or for sedan escorts.

 

[ssun30]

For certain loyal customers there's not enough space in the trunk to hide the bodies they want to dispose of in Tokyo Bay. The reduction in cargo volume won't be a welcome change for them at least.

 

[JustADude]

If this FWD V6 PHEV is so quiet, they could make an attempt at an LS650h+. 2UR-FSE + e-axle would make for at least 500hp minimum. Just a wild thought in my head.

 

[Motor]

What the heck? *Convertible* version of Toyota Century SUV teased

The possibilities are… ‘open’, according to Toyota. Arf arf

www.topgear.com

“The possibilities are endless… and open to discussion,” he added.

So, a Century GRMN Ute is a possibility?

 

[qtb007]

^^ The Century SUV is not well packaged with GA-K anyway. The cabin is shorter and only slightly taller than Sedan. Yes it's shorter but mostly because now the cargo space is only 340L compared to sedan's 550L.

They managed to make a transverse platform package no better than a longitudinal platform. That's just doing a bad job.

340L and 550L are trunk space numbers. What do the interior passenger dimensions look like? We probably can't say it is worse packaging until people can actually get inside and compare to the existing Century. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it feels roomier with the SUV being 300mm taller overall, only 130mm shorter (length wise), and the truck being shrunk by 40%. I'd guess that a fair bit of that lost trunk space was donated to the rear cabin space.

 

[Levi]

If this FWD V6 PHEV is so quiet, they could make an attempt at an LS650h+. 2UR-FSE + e-axle would make for at least 500hp minimum. Just a wild thought in my head.

Wouldn’t that be the new Century Sedan they replaced by the Century SUV?

 

[bogglo]

I wondered about that with ride height but didn't see any press pics with a higher ride height, even in motion.

I think people can make the case that wood is "out" but I also think that mostly applies to red/brown tones of wood with high gloss finishes. Darker stain or lighter stain, and open pore and matte woods are very in, and Lexus has kiriko glass on the LS, plus there are metal options as well. I agree with you that from the top down, I see less wood or trim in all Toyota/Lexus models. New TX barely has any. 2GX had a lot of wood trim, 3GX has none but just nondescript "trim" and very little of it on the center console. For LX, LS, ES and RX, Lexus went from full wood rim/leather steering wheels to full leather with awkward small wood inserts -- I think this looks terrible and is an awful implementation.

Premium trim options are one of the things that historically separated Lexus from Toyota interiors, so the reduction of trim applications and wood in Lexus makes their interiors feel less special and less luxurious to me. I consider Century and Crown to be similar to Lexus in luxury/price/spec, so here again...

(Older) Century sedan:

New Century SUV:

I see a lot of leather and plastic, but no wood. The new Century dash could be anything - Sienna? Highlander?

A real shame, IMO.

Now that I think about it, LC500 is regarded has one of TMC best interior currently if not the best. And looking at that car I couldn't find one single piece of wood in the entire interior. The SUV replaced all the wood trims with Leather.

 

[Heicho]

The SUV replaced all the wood trims with Leather

There is in fact wood trim along the entire dash and the rear tower console is entirely covered in wood.

 

[JustADude]

Wouldn’t that be the new Century Sedan they replaced by the Century SUV?

Century sedan has a hybrid system from 15 years ago. It'll be much improved with an e-axle and big battery. We'd see around 500hp

 

[Sulu]

Century sedan has a hybrid system from 15 years ago. It'll be much improved with an e-axle and big battery. We'd see around 500hp

I thought the eAxle was meant for the rear, unpowered axle on an FWD car? How do you use it on a RWD car?

 

[ssun30]

They're gonna sell every single one.

There's an entire generation of nepotism execs, trust fund kids and rare self made people who grew up in / around the sedan, and want something different but with the same connotations in Japan the century has.

I wonder how many groups in Japan stick to Century vehicles for certain use cases and would like SUVs, on their own or for sedan escorts.

To answer your questions more seriously. In modern Japan, the Heisei (post-Bubble) generation no longer have as much admiration for the Century and Crown. These are still Toyota's pride but they just carry too much stigma.

When they think of Century, it reminds them of corruption and violence. It's not a sense of admiration and respect but more of fear. The royal family and politicians are increasingly using the LS to distance themselves from that image. The Century Royale is used very infrequently since it eats a lot of budget to operate.

When they think of Crown, they think old money, Showa-era boomers responsible for the lost decades, taxi drivers, corrupt police officers, the dysfunctional justice system. Self-made people almost never buy the Crown, they buy European instead. But BMW and Benz carry their own stigma as well (overnight millionaires living a very lavish life style). Corporate execs prefer the Alphard and sometimes LS and RX. My ex-boss (a Showa boomer himself) used to have every generation of Crown up to S180. He then switched to RX and never looked back.

In some sense Century and Crown have become the Cadillacs and Lincolns of Japan. The newer generation only know them as prestigious brands in the past, but view them less positively if not negatively. That's also how Ford disappeared in South Korea. It used to be THE car brand of the country. But they are also heavily related to the dictatorships of Park Chung-hee and Chun Doo-hwan.

 

[CRSKTN]

To answer your questions more seriously. In modern Japan, the Heisei (post-Bubble) generation no longer have as much admiration for the Century and Crown. These are still Toyota's pride but they just carry too much stigma.

When they think of Century, it reminds them of corruption and violence. It's not a sense of admiration and respect but more of fear. The royal family and politicians are increasingly using the LS to distance themselves from that image. The Century Royale is used very infrequently since it eats a lot of budget to operate.

When they think of Crown, they think old money, Showa-era boomers responsible for the lost decades, taxi drivers, corrupt police officers, the dysfunctional justice system. Self-made people almost never buy the Crown, they buy European instead. But BMW and Benz carry their own stigma as well (overnight millionaires living a very lavish life style). Corporate execs prefer the Alphard and sometimes LS and RX. My ex-boss (a Showa boomer himself) used to have every generation of Crown up to S180. He then switched to RX and never looked back.

In some sense Century and Crown have become the Cadillacs and Lincolns of Japan. The newer generation only know them as prestigious brands in the past, but view them less positively if not negatively. That's also how Ford disappeared in South Korea. It used to be THE car brand of the country. But they are also heavily related to the dictatorships of Park Chung-hee and Chun Doo-hwan.

Thanks for this

 

[JustADude]

I thought the eAxle was meant for the rear, unpowered axle on an FWD car? How do you use it on a RWD car?

I’m not knowledgeable enough of the dynamics but i don’t think the e-axle is for FF cars only. IF they can put it on the front axle and the engine powers the rear

 

[Ali Manai]

The 2 gr is a terrific engine there have been countless variations of it including supercharged ones if toyota refines a little more to work as electric supercharged hybrid it would be a much better potent and probably efficient in both packaging and performance than the v35a-fts