JDM site
4th Generation Toyota Century Thread [Officially Revealed]
- Thread starter shizhi
- Start date
JDM site
No according to the catalogue it has normal coil suspension and thus no adjustable ride height.
The entire catalogue is available today:
トヨタ WEBカタログ | センチュリー | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト
WEBカタログは、センチュリーのカタログをお使いのブラウザで容易にご覧いただけます。以下の「ご利用条件」を読み、ご同意いただいたうえでご利用ください。
The 550h+ powertrain has 303kW/406hp and 69km of WLTC range. A quick estimation is 35mi of EPA range. The Century weighs 2570kg. I guess the TX550h+ will be ~100kg lighter so expect 36-37mi of EPA range. It's crazy how much unibody SUVs weigh these days.
Wool interior is not available on the SUV. Leather is the only option.
In press releases of LF-30 and LFZ they talk a lot about their future interior going "fully sustainable". Minimalist interior with "vegan leather" and "recycled plastic" seems to be the new trend and Lexus is embracing it. Smart excuses to cut costs and be politically correct.
Unfortunately I don't think masterpieces like Kiriko and Haku are returning on future Lexus flagships. RZ uses LED projections to create fake trim patterns and I think they found a shortcut there as well.
I remember the days when even the Vios (LWB Yaris) had wooden interior and real leather seats...
Last edited:
CRSKTN
Expert
- Messages
- 2,101
- Reactions
- 3,459
The world is filled with used cars with wood interior bits or lookalike. Luxury is in part servicing differentiation. Kids who grew up in SUVs don't want SUVs, people used to seeing those more traditional aspects of luxury want to redefine what it means today.
Also using vegan and recycled stuff isn't being "politically correct", it is sustainable and makes sense and also provides and economic benefit.
Also using vegan and recycled stuff isn't being "politically correct", it is sustainable and makes sense and also provides and economic benefit.
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,933
- Reactions
- 11,903
Agreed. Would be nice to see Toyota and Lexus move the needle here instead of just seas of plastic.
I really like the exterior design. It’s classy. The interior seems sub par for what it is though. The rear seats look very comfortable, but more wood would be nice. The LM definitely has a much nicer interior.
The hardest thing for me to look past is the fact that this rides on the same platform as a RAV-4. The proportions just look off. I realize the Century has a V6 hybrid, but there’s nothing spectacular about that. We went from a V12 Century not that long ago to a V6. It’s disappointing. IMO, both the Lexus TX and Century should’ve been built on the TNGA-L platform. And the Century could get a detuned version of the TT V8 that is in the works. Maybe I don’t understand the Century completely, but to me, the Century should be on the same level as a Bentley or Rolls Royce, and it’s just not. Not even close.
I’m a diehard Toyota fan, and it’s just disheartening to see the luxury devisions cutting costs, particularly on interiors. The LM was stunning and shows what Lexus is capable of. I just wish that design language trickled down the rest of Toyota’s luxury brands.
The hardest thing for me to look past is the fact that this rides on the same platform as a RAV-4. The proportions just look off. I realize the Century has a V6 hybrid, but there’s nothing spectacular about that. We went from a V12 Century not that long ago to a V6. It’s disappointing. IMO, both the Lexus TX and Century should’ve been built on the TNGA-L platform. And the Century could get a detuned version of the TT V8 that is in the works. Maybe I don’t understand the Century completely, but to me, the Century should be on the same level as a Bentley or Rolls Royce, and it’s just not. Not even close.
I’m a diehard Toyota fan, and it’s just disheartening to see the luxury devisions cutting costs, particularly on interiors. The LM was stunning and shows what Lexus is capable of. I just wish that design language trickled down the rest of Toyota’s luxury brands.
I already knew but I was coping. 😔
2/3RX had air suspension. Not having an air suspension on the Century is unacceptable.
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,933
- Reactions
- 11,903
Century is very JDM-specific and while it may compete with Cullinan or Bentayga at home, the Century wouldn't hold up against those two in other markets with higher speed limits, lower quality roads and greater desire for power.
As non-JDM folks like us looking at this Century, the struggles are similar to how we feel about Lexus not producing cars with competitive power or performance. Japan has 60km/h speed limits on city/urban roads and 100 km/h speed limits on highways... the Japanese do not see or understand the need for more power like Americans or Europeans. They think it is excessive and unnecessary -- understandable based on the dynamics of their home market. This is a long standing struggle between centralized Japanese leadership and global regions at Toyota, most notably when it comes to V8s.
With the Century there is no struggle: 400hp with EV power is more than a Century could ever need on Japanese roads except for bragging rights. It will never exist in a scenario where RWD would have tangible benefits over being FWD-biased, especially with modern manufacturing and TNGA advancements on chassis rigidity. In Europe or the US, the "Century" formula would require RWD/AWD, long wheelbase, air suspension and 550hp minimum -- most of those things Toyota just refuses to do and they obviously feel GA-K is "good enough" for this very specific use case.
Now, reason and logic aside, is this disappointing for the Century name? Most certainly yes.
As non-JDM folks like us looking at this Century, the struggles are similar to how we feel about Lexus not producing cars with competitive power or performance. Japan has 60km/h speed limits on city/urban roads and 100 km/h speed limits on highways... the Japanese do not see or understand the need for more power like Americans or Europeans. They think it is excessive and unnecessary -- understandable based on the dynamics of their home market. This is a long standing struggle between centralized Japanese leadership and global regions at Toyota, most notably when it comes to V8s.
With the Century there is no struggle: 400hp with EV power is more than a Century could ever need on Japanese roads except for bragging rights. It will never exist in a scenario where RWD would have tangible benefits over being FWD-biased, especially with modern manufacturing and TNGA advancements on chassis rigidity. In Europe or the US, the "Century" formula would require RWD/AWD, long wheelbase, air suspension and 550hp minimum -- most of those things Toyota just refuses to do and they obviously feel GA-K is "good enough" for this very specific use case.
Now, reason and logic aside, is this disappointing for the Century name? Most certainly yes.
Last edited:
The current Century sedan already makes over 400hp (specifically 425hp). The 2nd gen Century brought an air suspension. The formula is already there. The execution though…
I still think it looks good and perhaps will look even better IRL so the exterior design is there I suppose and I’m curious to see if it’ll be exported. It may be too early to ask given it hasn’t been a full day since the reveal but what would y’all rather have, the Century SUV or the LX?
For people who buy chauffeur-driven limousines, pure power figure is actually not a concern. This is different from the more individually-driven sedans like LS. Instead, having lots of power is just a nice side effect of the actual desired characteristics of a limousine: to accelerate effortlessly with minimum amount of noise and vibration. It just happens that engines with lots of cylinders and low-end torque naturally meet this requirement. So it's no wonder Rolls-Royce rarely advertised its power figures before they were taken over by the spreadsheet maximizers at BMW.
The 1GZ-FE V12 is IMO the best tuned limousine engine ever. It has very low on-paper power (advertised at 280PS but ~310PS in real world), but it has 450N.m of (lag-free) torque available at 1200rpm, just barely over idle. That's actually more torque than the 2UR-GSE below 3600rpm. From my short test drive of the V12 Century it almost immediately becomes apparent that this is the perfect chauffeur car. The driver can accelerate extremely easily while always staying below 2000rpm. The engine was intentionally tuned to have a very muted throttle response (takes about 1 second to rev from idle to 2500rpm, the 2UR can hit redline in that time!) and weak top-end torque, so the driver will never "misbehave" and spill the VIP's champagne. It is the exact opposite of the 2UR despite sharing 5.0L displacement.
We will have to wait for the TX550h+ to truly judge the competence of this transverse plug-in hybrid powertrain. In the mean time the true form of this Century SUV should be the rumored BEV version in development. But whether VIPs around the world can trust BEVs enough remains to be seen. These people's time are too valuable to wait 30 minutes for the batteries to charge.
Some of the highlights of interior details. Hand stitched "菅縫い" embroidery in the center of the leather seat.
The interior trim piece is laser-cut sapele wood with aluminum base pattern. This was actually available on the 2016 Lexus RX and GX. Not a handcrafted piece like Haku and Kiriko.
This is the ¥770k ($5500) stainless steel door scuff plate. Each of the markings is hammered onto the stainless steel plate and requires specially trained Takumi to achieve the exact depth and pattern that resembles the pattern on oak wood when cut along the annual rings.
IMO other than this extremely expensive plate, the LS still has a more impressive interior.
The interior trim piece is laser-cut sapele wood with aluminum base pattern. This was actually available on the 2016 Lexus RX and GX. Not a handcrafted piece like Haku and Kiriko.
This is the ¥770k ($5500) stainless steel door scuff plate. Each of the markings is hammered onto the stainless steel plate and requires specially trained Takumi to achieve the exact depth and pattern that resembles the pattern on oak wood when cut along the annual rings.
IMO other than this extremely expensive plate, the LS still has a more impressive interior.
Last edited:
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,933
- Reactions
- 11,903
Cabin size comparison (LxWxH, mm)
LS: 2120x1615x1160. Full dimension 5235x1900x1460.
Century Sedan: 2165x1605x1185. Full dimension 5335x1930x1505.
Century SUV: 2145x1605x1245. Full dimension 5205x1990x1805.
Alphard: 3005x1660x1360. Full dimension 4995x1850x1935.
LX VIP: 2005x1630x1190. Full dimension 5100x1990x1895.
The Century sedan still has a longer cabin than the SUV. Unsurprisingly the two Lexus are very poorly packaged.
LS: 2120x1615x1160. Full dimension 5235x1900x1460.
Century Sedan: 2165x1605x1185. Full dimension 5335x1930x1505.
Century SUV: 2145x1605x1245. Full dimension 5205x1990x1805.
Alphard: 3005x1660x1360. Full dimension 4995x1850x1935.
LX VIP: 2005x1630x1190. Full dimension 5100x1990x1895.
The Century sedan still has a longer cabin than the SUV. Unsurprisingly the two Lexus are very poorly packaged.
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,933
- Reactions
- 11,903
The more I reflect on this Century, the more I am disappointed.
In my time as a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast, I have vacillated between excitement and disappointment and I think that’s normal for any longtime enthusiast of one brand. But I feel like I’ve had this enduring feeling for 15+ years that Lexus isn’t doing enough to keep up with the competition. You can make the case that they’re running the best business model, and I think that’s probably true, but I also think it’s hard to deny that Mercedes and BMW are walking away from Lexus in terms of product and brand image. I often feel like Lexus is doing “just enough.”
Why do I mention that?
LS and LX have been mixed bags, sort of for the same reasons: powertrains are lackluster, technology is behind, and interiors aren’t keeping up with competing models. Those two cars set the tone for Lexus as a brand, and above that in the Toyota ecosystem, you have products like the Century. The best of the best - that was reiterated many times today in the reveal presentation.
For Toyota’s most prestigious global product, they based it on a FWD mainstream architecture with an 18 year old engine block.
Not GA-L, their premium platform.
Not V35A-FTS, their premium motor.
GA-K and GR V6.
I go back to this point about Lexus not going far enough at times and not pushing product enough. At least LS has GA-L and LX has GA-F, and both have V35A with 10AT. That is more than the Century got. Laminating glass and sound deadening an interior aren’t hard. Chassis engineering and power plant tuning are hard. Toyota chose easy.
Think if Toyota had greenlit the LF-1 for production: GA-L CUV with V35A, at a minimum. Toyota could have also used that to share costs and components with the Century. It would have been a natural use case and an opportunity for Lexus to step into a new realm and show some innovation. They didn’t.
V35A + PHEV would have been what, 500hp? 520hp? Premium platform, powertrain. I’m not even sure it would fit, but not even dropping V35A into GA-K to align the Century with LS, LX, Land Cruiser, etc? I see. Century should have been an opportunity for Toyota to flex some muscle and engineer a car that represents their best thinking and manufacturing, instead of just the best version of their midsize FWD platform. I guess that was good enough.
Toyota acts like they want to build mainstream cars but also build a few luxury products out of obligation. Good enough is increasingly… just not good enough.
See: Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, etc.
In my time as a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast, I have vacillated between excitement and disappointment and I think that’s normal for any longtime enthusiast of one brand. But I feel like I’ve had this enduring feeling for 15+ years that Lexus isn’t doing enough to keep up with the competition. You can make the case that they’re running the best business model, and I think that’s probably true, but I also think it’s hard to deny that Mercedes and BMW are walking away from Lexus in terms of product and brand image. I often feel like Lexus is doing “just enough.”
Why do I mention that?
LS and LX have been mixed bags, sort of for the same reasons: powertrains are lackluster, technology is behind, and interiors aren’t keeping up with competing models. Those two cars set the tone for Lexus as a brand, and above that in the Toyota ecosystem, you have products like the Century. The best of the best - that was reiterated many times today in the reveal presentation.
For Toyota’s most prestigious global product, they based it on a FWD mainstream architecture with an 18 year old engine block.
Not GA-L, their premium platform.
Not V35A-FTS, their premium motor.
GA-K and GR V6.
I go back to this point about Lexus not going far enough at times and not pushing product enough. At least LS has GA-L and LX has GA-F, and both have V35A with 10AT. That is more than the Century got. Laminating glass and sound deadening an interior aren’t hard. Chassis engineering and power plant tuning are hard. Toyota chose easy.
Think if Toyota had greenlit the LF-1 for production: GA-L CUV with V35A, at a minimum. Toyota could have also used that to share costs and components with the Century. It would have been a natural use case and an opportunity for Lexus to step into a new realm and show some innovation. They didn’t.
V35A + PHEV would have been what, 500hp? 520hp? Premium platform, powertrain. I’m not even sure it would fit, but not even dropping V35A into GA-K to align the Century with LS, LX, Land Cruiser, etc? I see. Century should have been an opportunity for Toyota to flex some muscle and engineer a car that represents their best thinking and manufacturing, instead of just the best version of their midsize FWD platform. I guess that was good enough.
Toyota acts like they want to build mainstream cars but also build a few luxury products out of obligation. Good enough is increasingly… just not good enough.
See: Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, etc.
Last time I checked, the new 740i weighs 2130kg and 760i weighs 2310kg. These are exact same weight as the LS500 and LS500h. The X5 50e now weighs 2570kg, almost as much as LX. So it turned out weight isn't a real problem for GA-L in the long run anyway.
LF-1 should never have been cancelled. In fact I have no problem with them retiring the LS name and replace it with LF-1 instead. All that built-in rigidity to handle a V8TT engine would help with ride comfort and have plenty of spare GVM to add even more insulation. 2300kg for a base V35 and up to 2700kg for a V8 PHV should all be well within spec of the overengineered platform, and these are not considered "heavy" nowadays.
Instead, the GA-K platform is now pushed to the absolute limit. The Century SUV weighs 2570kg and LM500h weighs 2500kg. That's growing from a platform targeting vehicles in the 1500-2000kg range. I doubt at such different stress levels, the "big GA-K" actually shares enough components with the regular GA-K to be that cheap to develop and build.
LF-1 should never have been cancelled. In fact I have no problem with them retiring the LS name and replace it with LF-1 instead. All that built-in rigidity to handle a V8TT engine would help with ride comfort and have plenty of spare GVM to add even more insulation. 2300kg for a base V35 and up to 2700kg for a V8 PHV should all be well within spec of the overengineered platform, and these are not considered "heavy" nowadays.
Instead, the GA-K platform is now pushed to the absolute limit. The Century SUV weighs 2570kg and LM500h weighs 2500kg. That's growing from a platform targeting vehicles in the 1500-2000kg range. I doubt at such different stress levels, the "big GA-K" actually shares enough components with the regular GA-K to be that cheap to develop and build.