2nd Generation (2022+) Lexus NX Megathread (NX 200, 250, 350, 350h and 450h+)

qtb007 · Oct 4, 2021

ssun30 said:
There is also a trend to intentionally make their ICE models undesirable to push customers to hybrid model. Best example is UX, zero reason to buy UX200 over 250h. Similarly unless the customer really wants a pure ICE NX it's almost no-brainer to go for 350h.

UX 200 and 250h use the same M20A engine and you can't get AWD on the 200. In that case, the bump to the hybrid model improves power, fuel efficiency, and grip (if you go for AWD)... which is a no brainer. The NX 350 and 350h is a slightly different animal because you either get a more powerful and less efficient T24A or the less powerful and more efficient A25A hybrid.

If that 22mpg combined number is true, they must be aggressively tuning the way the 350 drives with aggressive AWD split (versus slip-and-pray), short gearing in the differentials, wide performance tires, etc. Which honestly seems kinda pointless as most people buying an NX aren't looking for a hot rod and those low fuel economy numbers negatively impact CAFE scores.

ssun30 · Oct 5, 2021

Gecko said:
All yes. The details on the new AWD system seem sparse too... but Lexus' current full time AWD is very old tech now, at least if they do 50/50% or 70/30%. It is time for something like SH-AWD that does 10% front/90% rear to save gas, but can quickly apply more power where needed based on mode and throttle input. The new AWD system is one of the things I'm most interested in.

Here are details on the "full-time AWD" system used on NX350. Toyota-club isn't too kind on their comments:
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/21-09-30_faq_4wd_nx350_en.htm

At the presentation of the Lexus NX 2nd generation in June, Toyota announced that the version with A25A-FKS will be equipped with conventional all-wheel drive, while the turbo version with T24A-FTS will receive a "newly-developed, electronically-controlled full-time AWD" which "constantly varies the front/rear driving force distribution from 75:25 to 50:50".

For three months, net communities speculated about this unexpected innovation - after all, Toyota has long abandoned full-time AWD for FF-models. But in September, all the technical details were revealed, and the obscure "full-time" turned out to be a usual marketing trick.

All-wheel drive of NX350 belongs to the well-known DTC (Dynamic Torque Control) type with an electromechanical coupling for rear wheel drive, and its only difference is the manufacturer's promise not to disengage the coupling completely in those modes where the standard DTC already disables the rear drive. To do this, Toyota used a reinforced multiplate clutch with increased resistance to overheating, the number of discs in the friction clutch was increased.

The transfer case for both variants is the same traditional GF1A. Rear differential units differ - usual FD13AE for NX250 and new FD15CE for NX350.

Left: FD13AE/Right: FD15CE

In earlier generations of RAV4/Highlander the DTC AWD system has a 'center-lock' button that keeps the coupling engaged (but still an "on-demand" system). The NX350 basically has the same system but permanently 'locked'. It is NOT a real center diff with locking. You can also think of it as the GR-Four AWD system but without the overspeed on rear axle to create the torque-vectoring effect.

According to Toyota-club.net, the DTV has reliability problems that are yet to be worked out. I think that may be why NX350 has not adopted it yet.

From the entire list of AWD system analysis, we can tell Toyota/Lexus has basically given up innovating mechanical AWD systems since mid-2000s. Most of their new developments have been E-AWD since then.

*Those Russians always do a wonderful job obtaining detailed analysis of TMC drivetrain components!

ssun30 · Oct 5, 2021

qtb007 said:
If that 22mpg combined number is true, they must be aggressively tuning the way the 350 drives with aggressive AWD split (versus slip-and-pray), short gearing in the differentials, wide performance tires, etc. Which honestly seems kinda pointless as most people buying an NX aren't looking for a hot rod and those low fuel economy numbers negatively impact CAFE scores.

Nope. See above. Same old tech and limited capabilities from mid-2000s RAV4. For Toyota the future is clearly E-AWD so we shouldn't expect them to come up with any fancy mechanical AWD systems.

qtb007 · Oct 6, 2021

ssun30 said:
Nope. See above. Same old tech and limited capabilities from mid-2000s RAV4. For Toyota the future is clearly E-AWD so we shouldn't expect them to come up with any fancy mechanical AWD systems.

The NX 350 system is at least 25% rear at all times where the previous system found in the NX 250 can go 0% to the rear. That more aggressive AWD split is going to impact fuel economy to some degree. For your typical NX driver that just wants something that works really well in the snow, I think that is a reasonable AWD system. The DTV system would have been nice for performance driving, but, again, I don't see many people buying the NX 350 as a corner carver.

As far as giving up on mechanical AWD designs, it is probably a good business decision. The future isn't having a prop shaft running down the spine of the vehicle. Having driven the A25A Sienna hybrid and Highlander hybrid, I'd be hard pressed to choose the NX 350 over the NX 350h. The hybrid gets 90% of the performance with far better fuel economy and runs on regular.

Ian Schmidt · Oct 6, 2021

qtb007 said:
As far as giving up on mechanical AWD designs, it is probably a good business decision. The future isn't having a prop shaft running down the spine of the vehicle. Having driven the A25A Sienna hybrid and Highlander hybrid, I'd be hard pressed to choose the NX 350 over the NX 350h. The hybrid gets 90% of the performance with far better fuel economy and runs on regular.

I had the same thought. It's fine to have a mechanical AWD system now that you're happy with (I've said before that I've been impressed with the snow performance of the 5LS AWD with the Torsen diff), but developing a new one doesn't make sense.

LS500-18 · Oct 6, 2021

My RAV4 Prime has e-AWD, it works extremely well.

mediumhot · Oct 6, 2021

Did anyone really expect real deal AWD? I didn't. As a matter of fact I never counted on Toyota to do proper AWD unless we are talking about RWD vehicle. They see the future in Direct-4 hybrid whatever it's called now system. When will that thing debut? Who knows.

Levi · Oct 6, 2021

mediumhot said:
Did anyone really expect real deal AWD? I didn't. As a matter of fact I never counted on Toyota to do proper AWD unless we are talking about RWD vehicle. They see the future in Direct-4 hybrid whatever it's called now system. When will that thing debut? Who knows.

NX 450h does not have Direct-4? Maybe TX/RX 500h will get it then.

CRSKTN · Oct 6, 2021

if I was working at Lexus and the complaints of my vehicle had to get into technical diagrams to find things to nitpick, i would be ecstatic.

this thing is going to dominate

ssun30 · Oct 6, 2021

Yes. It's the right decision to develop computers instead of perfecting abacus.

krew · Oct 7, 2021

The second-generation Lexus NX crossover will be coming to dealerships this fall with four powertrains and the brand new Lexus Interface infotainment system to go along with its completely redesigned exterior & interior.
Headlining the show is the NX 450h+, the first plug-in hybrid in the Lexus lineup. There’s also the NX 300h hybrid, the NX 350 four-cylinder turbo, and the entry-model NX 250, giving the NX the most engine choices of any Lexus ever.
Just as important is the brand new Lexus Interface multimedia system, which does away with the Lexus Remote Touch controller in favor of a single large touchscreen.
Today, media from around the world will be publishing their first drive reviews of the new second-generation NX, but we won’t be among them. Executive editor Michael Pannone was all set to attend the launch in Arizona, but potential exposure to COVID prevented him from making the trip. For the time being, we will have to rely on the official press release and reviews from...

ssun30 · Oct 7, 2021

Sorry for your near miss with COVID. Stay safe!

sl0519 · Oct 7, 2021

450h looks to be the better buy and a no brainer
350 seems pretty underwhelming in terms of performance

ssun30 · Oct 7, 2021

450h+ is not a no brainer because of very poor availability.

350h is the real star. Cheaper, 50% better fuel economy, faster in 95% of daily driving scenarios, smoother, quieter. The only case for the 350 ICEV is cold weather performance, and I think pretty substantial part of US market actually values that.

250 is just there to lower the starting price so they could lure people in.

Gecko · Oct 7, 2021

ssun30 said:
450h+ is not a no brainer because of very poor availability.

350h is the real star. Cheaper, 50% better fuel economy, faster in 95% of daily driving scenarios, smoother, quieter. The only case for the 350 ICEV is cold weather performance, and I think pretty substantial part of US market actually values that.

250 is just there to lower the starting price so they could lure people in.

Agree - and a $60k NX is a lot of cash. I think the 350h would be my pick... and you can get it with Mark Levinson, which you can't get on the 450h+.

Motor · Oct 7, 2021

Lexus Brings the Next Chapter of the Brand to Life in the All-New 2022 Lexus NX - Lexus USA Newsroom

PLANO, Texas (October 7, 2021) –With an extensive list of firsts, from the first plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) in the Lexus lineup – the NX 450h+ – to the introduction of the all-new Lexus Interface multimedia system, the 2022 Lexus NX sets the stage for the next chapter of the Lexus brand.

pressroom.lexus.com

Motor · Oct 7, 2021

qtb007 · Oct 7, 2021

Apparently the 22mpg combined for the 350 on the pre-ordering guide was incorrect. I'm seeing 25mpg combined now. That's far closer to what I expected. I also saw a note that the 350h requires premium from another news source. I don't believe the Sienna or Highlander have the same requirement despite having the same output.

The 450h+ pricing is bit disappointing. $50k after tax credit is a big chunk of change considering that an XSE Rav4 Prime is $35k* after the same tax credit. I'm not allergic to the Toyota badge or lower end interior; the powertrain is the part that will get me to spend money.

* Assuming no markups and such... I expect those markups to be gone within a year or so as the supply and demand hopefully get more in line.

Naveelttil97 · Oct 7, 2021

Oh wow, so compared to the pre-order guide, the NX350 goes 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, compared to 6.8 seconds and the combined MPG is 25 compared to 22. I know those are small improvements, but it definitely makes the NX350 quite a bit more attractive (to me, at least).

Motor · Oct 7, 2021

2nd Generation (2022+) Lexus NX Megathread (NX 200, 250, 350, 350h and 450h+)

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