Gecko

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The TX Plug-In and the X7 Will be in the same league tho.

Maybe TX 550h+ and X7 40i? But surely not X7 M60i.

The upper trims of the X7 also have much nicer features and luxury options than are even available on the TX, and as such, X7 upper trims are much more expensive.

Used-2023-BMW-X7-M60i-1696558055.jpg
 
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Maybe TX 550h+ and X7 40i? But surely not X7 M60i.

The upper trims of the X7 also have much nicer features and luxury options than are even available on the TX, and as such, X7 upper trims are much more expensive.

Used-2023-BMW-X7-M60i-1696558055.jpg
Yep referring to the 40i model.
 
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I hope the iX7 doesnt go the route of the EQS and gets bigger rather than smaller. As far as EVs go the Lucid Gravity is the best electric SUV. If the upcoming Lexus 3 Row EV doesn't have at least 400+ miles of range it is DOA
 
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pacman1

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I hope the iX7 doesnt go the route of the EQS and gets bigger rather than smaller. As far as EVs go the Lucid Gravity is the best electric SUV. If the upcoming Lexus 3 Row EV doesn't have at least 400+ miles of range it is DOA
Not everyone needs 400 miles of range. I say this as someone who owns an EV in LA. I imagine vast majority of EV drivers are using their car to commute between work, picking up kids and groceries, like me. Bigger batteries cost more money and add weight. Just because a vehicle might have 300 miles or 250 miles does not make it DOA. They might even be excellent city cars. Will I take this car to go camping? No. Even if an EV had 400 miles I would feel safer taking a hybrid that I know I can refuel in case the chargers are not available.

I agree that the Gravity is a compelling SUV. It is probably THE car to beat in its segment if and when it makes it to market. It is not sending any major player to their grave though.
 
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Not everyone needs 400 miles of range. I say this as someone who owns an EV in LA. I imagine vast majority of EV drivers are using their car to commute between work, picking up kids and groceries, like me. Bigger batteries cost more money and add weight. Just because a vehicle might have 300 miles or 250 miles does not make it DOA. They might even be excellent city cars. Will I take this car to go camping? No. Even if an EV had 400 miles I would feel safer taking a hybrid that I know I can refuel in case the chargers are not available.

I agree that the Gravity is a compelling SUV. It is probably THE car to beat in its segment if and when it makes it to market. It is not sending any major player to their grave though.
I personally think that 400 miles of range is important, especially for a big family car that most people will use for road trips. It doesn't necessarily have to add extra weight (again think Lucid). They can achieve 440mi of range with a 120kwh battery pack. Sure 250mi of range might be acceptable for a smaller car that is not a luxury vehicle but you expect more considering the hefty price.
 

pacman1

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I personally think that 400 miles of range is important, especially for a big family car that most people will use for road trips. It doesn't necessarily have to add extra wait (again think Lucid). They can achieve 440mi of range with a 120kwh battery pack. Sure 250mi of range might be acceptable for a smaller car that is not a luxury vehicle but you expect more considering the hefty price.
I am talking about weight of the battery. A battery that has capacity for 400 miles of range is inherently going to be heavier than a battery with a 250 mile range. Every added lb makes the vehicle heavier, bogging down the efficiency of an electric vehicle. A battery that can support a SUV is already being taxed heavily before we even talk about range. It is why a standard hybrid Prius has better fuel efficiency than a Prius Prime if you cannot charge,

Now think of the percentage of drivers out there that are driving model 3s and model Ys. How many do you think are out there exhausting their battery range on a routine basis? Better yet, how many do you figure are driving more than 50 miles a day? Most families are not thinking of an EV when they are concerned of road trips first.
 

Sulu

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Larger batteries weigh more, and unlike internal combustion engine vehicles, do not get lighter as the "tank" is emptied. In EVs (BEVs, HEVs, PHEVs), you are pulling around the full weight of the battery regardless of the state of charge. So EVs with smaller batteries may have a shorter electric-only range but will be more efficient due to the lesser weight being pulled around; and with smaller, lighter batteries, smaller, lighter, less-powerful electric drive motors will be needed. Smaller batteries also take less time to charge; on long road trips, you may have to stop more often but each stop will be shorter.

That is assuming that EV drivers will take their cars on long road trips. With the general lack of charging infrastructure here in Southern Ontario, Canada, my wife and I (as an example and perhaps representative of many prospective EV buyers) are afraid to take EVs on long road trips.

But my wife has worked out that when her new Prius Prime is delivered, it will have enough electric-only range that she will be able to commute in EV mode only and maybe only have to recharge every 2nd day or so. The gasoline engine backup should only be needed when she visits her sisters in a neighbouring city that is outside the electric-only range.
 

pacman1

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Larger batteries weigh more, and unlike internal combustion engine vehicles, do not get lighter as the "tank" is emptied. In EVs (BEVs, HEVs, PHEVs), you are pulling around the full weight of the battery regardless of the state of charge. So EVs with smaller batteries may have a shorter electric-only range but will be more efficient due to the lesser weight being pulled around; and with smaller, lighter batteries, smaller, lighter, less-powerful electric drive motors will be needed. Smaller batteries also take less time to charge; on long road trips, you may have to stop more often but each stop will be shorter.

That is assuming that EV drivers will take their cars on long road trips. With the general lack of charging infrastructure here in Southern Ontario, Canada, my wife and I (as an example and perhaps representative of many prospective EV buyers) are afraid to take EVs on long road trips.

But my wife has worked out that when her new Prius Prime is delivered, it will have enough electric-only range that she will be able to commute in EV mode only and maybe only have to recharge every 2nd day or so. The gasoline engine backup should only be needed when she visits her sisters in a neighbouring city that is outside the electric-only range.
You said it better than I could.

SUVs & full-size pick ups are by design inefficient as EVs because they’re so heavy.

Do I want an EV Tundra? Sure, maybe. It would be fun and hilarious to watch a 3 ton truck go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Would I take it on road trips? No. Would I prefer a PHEV Tundra over an EV Tundra? PHEV GX vs EV GX? PHEV every time.
 

pacman1

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I just got back from LA Autoshow.

There was a healthy crowd around the GX and TX. I have a feeling these are going to be EVERYWHERE. Sat in both and loved the interiors, even the GX interior which is under heavier scrutiny here. It just felt nice. People sitting before and after me also impressed.

Another surprising discovery: I was shocked at how Lucid Air’s interior was so …average. Definitely did not expect flimsy buttons and econobox cup holders at that price range. Slight upgrade in materials at higher trims but buttons and cup holders remained unchanged. If the Gravity (which I admit was for display only) has similar interior it can turn a lot of people off for what they’re expected to pay. I was also surprised to see the rear/ side profile of the Gravity being so unattractive because I thought this SUV was going to be a real challenger when their debut was announced all over car websites. I do not feel that now. Not sure how maintenance and repairs are handled by Lucid but they have an uphill battle.
 
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Larger batteries weigh more, and unlike internal combustion engine vehicles, do not get lighter as the "tank" is emptied. In EVs (BEVs, HEVs, PHEVs), you are pulling around the full weight of the battery regardless of the state of charge. So EVs with smaller batteries may have a shorter electric-only range but will be more efficient due to the lesser weight being pulled around; and with smaller, lighter batteries, smaller, lighter, less-powerful electric drive motors will be needed. Smaller batteries also take less time to charge; on long road trips, you may have to stop more often but each stop will be shorter.

That is assuming that EV drivers will take their cars on long road trips. With the general lack of charging infrastructure here in Southern Ontario, Canada, my wife and I (as an example and perhaps representative of many prospective EV buyers) are afraid to take EVs on long road trips.

But my wife has worked out that when her new Prius Prime is delivered, it will have enough electric-only range that she will be able to commute in EV mode only and maybe only have to recharge every 2nd day or so. The gasoline engine backup should only be needed when she visits her sisters in a neighbouring city that is outside the electric-only range.
Efficiency has to do primarily with aerodynamics. The Lucid Gravity has better MPGE than a tesla model y.
 
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I just got back from LA Autoshow.

There was a healthy crowd around the GX and TX. I have a feeling these are going to be EVERYWHERE. Sat in both and loved the interiors, even the GX interior which is under heavier scrutiny here. It just felt nice. People sitting before and after me also impressed.

Another surprising discovery: I was shocked at how Lucid Air’s interior was so …average. Definitely did not expect flimsy buttons and econobox cup holders at that price range. Slight upgrade in materials at higher trims but buttons and cup holders remained unchanged. If the Gravity (which I admit was for display only) has similar interior it can turn a lot of people off for what they’re expected to pay. I was also surprised to see the rear/ side profile of the Gravity being so unattractive because I thought this SUV was going to be a real challenger when their debut was announced all over car websites. I do not feel that now. Not sure how maintenance and repairs are handled by Lucid but they have an uphill battle.
To each their own what trim of the air did you try?
 

pacman1

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To each their own what trim of the air did you try?
There were 3 you can sit in at the LA auto show. I don’t know the specific name of their trims but I have to assume that the one with fabric seats and dash is entry level. The other 2 had leather.

I like the panorama glass and the exterior looks. It does itself favors when you see photos of them on the web. The interior leaves much to be desired. The material felt cheap and you just don’t expect that type of finish on an expensive car like that. They selected good color palettes and I think it does a great job of hiding details from afar.

I wish I could have sat inside the Gravity but they had that restricted.

IMG_0664.jpeg
 
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You said it better than I could.

SUVs & full-size pick ups are by design inefficient as EVs because they’re so heavy.

Do I want an EV Tundra? Sure, maybe. It would be fun and hilarious to watch a 3 ton truck go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Would I take it on road trips? No. Would I prefer a PHEV Tundra over an EV Tundra? PHEV GX vs EV GX? PHEV every time.
Yeah that would be good IF they give it a usable range
 

mikeavelli

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I just got back from LA Autoshow.

There was a healthy crowd around the GX and TX. I have a feeling these are going to be EVERYWHERE. Sat in both and loved the interiors, even the GX interior which is under heavier scrutiny here. It just felt nice. People sitting before and after me also impressed.

Another surprising discovery: I was shocked at how Lucid Air’s interior was so …average. Definitely did not expect flimsy buttons and econobox cup holders at that price range. Slight upgrade in materials at higher trims but buttons and cup holders remained unchanged. If the Gravity (which I admit was for display only) has similar interior it can turn a lot of people off for what they’re expected to pay. I was also surprised to see the rear/ side profile of the Gravity being so unattractive because I thought this SUV was going to be a real challenger when their debut was announced all over car websites. I do not feel that now. Not sure how maintenance and repairs are handled by Lucid but they have an uphill battle.

Another blah SUV with ipads. Hard to get excited IMO.

In other news

 
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Another blah SUV with ipads. Hard to get excited IMO.

In other news

It still has physical controls which is nice and on top of that it finally has a usable range with good efficiency. I wish Lexus would churn out something like this but the Lucid is really really nice. I sat in the air a while back and it was really nice. I guarantee that people on this would get excited if it was a Lexus (and understandably so). I will also point out that this has 112 cubic feet and a bigger third row than the TX despite being 5 inches shorter (comes down to packaging). Overall I think that this really makes the electric vehicle market a lot more enticing an I wouldn't call it a blah SUV with ipads.