maiaramdan
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internalaudit
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I can sense a lot of frustrations here. Are these rumors about the European operations even true?
My dad had a 300D, 190E, 260E and then a decade later a C280. He was into MB's. Except for the last one, all experienced electrical and engine issues often. He blames quality control going down after the Berlin Wall collapsed (definitely no offense to Eastern Europeans/Germans). I was a tweener and turned into a young adult over that time (of course).
I really think with BEVs, European car reliability will be a few fold better. Electrical gremlins will probably be gone with bigger batteries and high voltage systems. I was just thinking to myself today, how the hell can a 12V battery / alternator keep up with all these electrical demands.
If Lexus doesn't sense this clear and present danger, I think they will find out a little too late.
For me, a minimum of hybrid before I consider buying something.
My dad had a 300D, 190E, 260E and then a decade later a C280. He was into MB's. Except for the last one, all experienced electrical and engine issues often. He blames quality control going down after the Berlin Wall collapsed (definitely no offense to Eastern Europeans/Germans). I was a tweener and turned into a young adult over that time (of course).
I really think with BEVs, European car reliability will be a few fold better. Electrical gremlins will probably be gone with bigger batteries and high voltage systems. I was just thinking to myself today, how the hell can a 12V battery / alternator keep up with all these electrical demands.
If Lexus doesn't sense this clear and present danger, I think they will find out a little too late.
For me, a minimum of hybrid before I consider buying something.
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Joaquin Ruhi
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Wow! I did find it odd that while Lexus' Global, USA and Canada newsrooms all had press releases on the 2021 IS Facebook reveal next week, the Europe and UK Media Sites didn't say a word. Perhaps, I thought, they'll get around to announcing it tomorrow, but I certainly didn't expect this!
I will be so sad if this true. I’ve been waiting and saving up for this car for a few years now. This is honestly so depressing and dissapointing from Lexus.
CRSKTN
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What're the chances it's like a sedanized 4 door RC design like posited? Maybe easier to justify if it's a semi derived / adapted product?
I am not talent. Am ask for concept.
Edit:
Motherf
"We do not know what these people want. How do we give them what they want?"
"We will start a website that we will funnel random ideas to and literally just give them that. We can shift the entire R&D budget to personal kickbacks."
"We can never, ever release segmented historical financials."
Give it a hatch. GIVE IT A HATCH. GIVE IT A HATCH. SHOOOTING BRRAAAKKKEE
Edit:
"Also we will prove we can make a pair of GRMN Century vehicles but nobody can ever have one!"
😡🤬
I am not talent. Am ask for concept.
Edit:
Motherf
The Lexus RC as a Four-Door Coupe
Photochopper Theophilus Chin has created a four-door Lexus RC GT similar in concept to the BMW 4-Series Grand Coupe: Have to say, this is a real stunner — however unlikely it is that Lexus would ever release such a vehicle, I think it should be considered after seeing this rendering. What do you...
lexusenthusiast.com
"We do not know what these people want. How do we give them what they want?"
"We will start a website that we will funnel random ideas to and literally just give them that. We can shift the entire R&D budget to personal kickbacks."
"We can never, ever release segmented historical financials."
Give it a hatch. GIVE IT A HATCH. GIVE IT A HATCH. SHOOOTING BRRAAAKKKEE
Edit:
"Also we will prove we can make a pair of GRMN Century vehicles but nobody can ever have one!"
😡🤬
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CRSKTN
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Is it being implied from a lack of PR or is it confirmed?
Edit:
People like this.
Lexus Begins Digging Infiniti's Grave With The 2021 Lexus IS
Last week, we got the sporty new Acura TLX Type S. Now this week, hot off the back of news that Infiniti is giving up on luxury, Lexus is teasing it’s own updated sports sedan—the rear-wheel drive 2021 Lexus IS.
jalopnik.com
Edit aside from the standard insane jalopnik analysis of an artificially-manipulated-to-not-have-details-blackened image.
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According to Autocar, the new 2021 Lexus IS sedan will not be sold in Europe:
A Lexus UK spokesperson said: “Roughly 80% of all Lexus models sold in Europe are SUVs and the larger ES is outselling the current IS at a rate of around two-to-one, so we made the decision not to introduce this new model to the UK market.”
It’s hardly surprising that the ES is outselling the IS, as its a much newer model. There is another point to consider, as the CT hatchback is still available in Europe.
Even so, this is a surprising move that surely proves this IS will be an extensive refresh rather than a generation change. After all, would Lexus really develop a model that couldn’t be sold in one of its largest markets?
Autocar makes an astute observation as to why Europe won’t be carrying the new IS:
Without...
Continue reading...
Joaquin Ruhi
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The Lexus Australia Pressroom also mentions the 2021 IS reveal, tacitly confirming that Europe is the only major market dropping the IS. Or is it? I'm wondering what China will do. Follow Europe's example and drop the IS? (@ssun30 has said in the past here that IS is a poor seller in China). Or offer the revised 2021 IS in hopes that sales increase?
The Australian press release also informs us that "The virtual reveal program will include new model information, photography and videography."
The Australian press release also informs us that "The virtual reveal program will include new model information, photography and videography."
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The IS300 will be discontinued in China next year since the 8AR-FTS engine does not meet the emissions standards. It's outsold by the ES 20:1 so there's no point keeping it anyway. Without a LWB option the IS has no hope of sales increase.
I have always complained about Lexus (and Toyota) not bothering with emissions compliance even though they are totally capable of doing it. When a model fails to comply they just discontinue it and concede sales to competitors and parallel importers. The parallel import (grey market) models of the discontinued models have already been certified thanks to efforts of the importers. Even the least eco-friendly model (LX570) has obtained import license.
Toyota is the only manufacturer that discontinued their lowest emission product (Prius) because they don't want to spend money on recertification for new emissions standards. That has made them a laughing stock for a while. The Prius, discontinued for failing to comply with emissions, imagine that.
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Tell me more.🍿
Lexus sales Europe (inc Russia) for 2019.
rest:
Toyota Motor Europe outperforms market and posts strong growth in 2019, reaching 5.3% market share
Toyota brand passes 1 million sales for the first time since 2008 Lexus increases 14.5% to a record 87,000 sales marking sixth successive year of European growth Hybrid electric vehicles make up 52% of total sales and 63% in West Europe
Actually RX sells and has always sold really well in Europe (especially Russia).
With RX350h in the future model, I expect sales of RX to "explode" in Western Europe, since that will bring it down to reasonable prices (RX450h is very expensive).
Those 3 CUVs are 75%-78% of Lexus sales in Europe.
Rydo
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I can see the news about the IS on Europe has not gone down well.
While the sales figures do show that is is around half that of the ES, that shouldn’t mean it is killed off altogether. They sell the LC and LS with pitifully small numbers so a large lineup is obviously of value to them.
If Lexus becomes with 4-car brand in Europe then that will be depressing as all hell.
A bit like Honda who went from a car in every segment in the mid 2000s in Europe to about 4 models now.
our only hope is that it is an emissions thing, and the next all new will return. But even at that, doesn’t that sort of damage the IS momentum. People will wonder where it has went
While the sales figures do show that is is around half that of the ES, that shouldn’t mean it is killed off altogether. They sell the LC and LS with pitifully small numbers so a large lineup is obviously of value to them.
If Lexus becomes with 4-car brand in Europe then that will be depressing as all hell.
A bit like Honda who went from a car in every segment in the mid 2000s in Europe to about 4 models now.
our only hope is that it is an emissions thing, and the next all new will return. But even at that, doesn’t that sort of damage the IS momentum. People will wonder where it has went
I think the reason IS is getting killed off in Europe is also the reason this 3.75IS is a refresh and not a redesign. But I am hopeful this will be a kicker. New N platform isn't exactly crap...it's old but it's still good enough to take on the competition (but then i'm no car engineer). I'm just hoping this refresh gets a big enough overhaul, especially in the interior to almost call it 4IS. That rear teaser is mighty nice. The interior I hope will get the bulk of the aesthetic refresh though. It lacks the rear seat space for China's taste and the front seat space for larger westerners. Also, updating the infotainment will shut up the whining incompetent car journos who bang on about it (and therefore turning people away from the car) as well as providing enough change on the spec sheet to lure potential buyers. The engine choices are fine; especially in Aus we have 2L T, 2.5L hybrid and 3.5L NA. But it also needs a higher end engine to compete with the higher grades of its competitors.
Anyway, i hope this 3.75IS sells well. Well enough to tell Lexus at HQ to give it another generation...I'd hate to go to a bigger FWD based ES even with eAWD. RWD is just...better.
Anyway, i hope this 3.75IS sells well. Well enough to tell Lexus at HQ to give it another generation...I'd hate to go to a bigger FWD based ES even with eAWD. RWD is just...better.
The IS might not bea seller, but the ES is not a hit either, because of CUVs. At this point Lexus can go the Ford way and cancel all sedans, including the LS. They can leave the LC/LC F as halo model, but I honestly do not know how it relates to the three FWD CUVs (UX, NX, RX). With Lexus going the Infiniti way (Nissan+) and FWD chassis, why even bother with IS, RC, LS and LC. They should have brought the LF1 instead. Will that one even come to Europe?
The next question is will there be a next gen LS, or will it get updates until being the last ICEV on sale?
The next question is will there be a next gen LS, or will it get updates until being the last ICEV on sale?
Gecko
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I posted last year that I expected Lexus to eventually go to an ES-LS sedan strategy, and that the death of the GS was bad for the IS because of R&D/manufacturing efficiencies. Many of you disagreed with me and said that was foolish, which it might have seemed at the time. I also posted recently that the future as a Lexus enthusiast is accepting the reality of who Lexus is now, and not expecting them to be who they were ten or fifteen years ago. That's a bit of a painful transition, but not doing so is setting yourself up for disappointment and anger. The execution and reception of this IS are interesting to me based on these two points.
We know Lexus has a way of fulfilling their own predetermined destiny for certain models:
1. Introduce a product that is half-baked and fundamentally lacking some competitive advantage (a reflection of slashed R&D budgets to begin with).
2. During the lifecycle, do not fully invest in said product to bring it up to par with competitors.
3. Remove or reduce advertising support.
4. Watch sales dwindle.
5. Explain that because of low sales, said vehicle is a waste of resources and those buyers are either non-essential to the brand or can be covered with a different model.
6. Cancel the vehicle in question.
Or put simply: Not invest, neglect, nix.
Pulling the IS out of global markets and saying that the ES sells in higher volume... does that sound similar?
An extended lifecycle with no new or uncompetitive powertrains... seems like I've seen this before?
Unsubstantiated rumors about a next generation when it's clear that the current one is on life support... deja vu?
Lexus has had the last 8+ years to plan and develop a new 4IS, and they didn't. And they didn't even bother to add a new engine, or some new trick technology. You will see this a week from today. The extended lifecycle and lack of investment in the IS is bad enough, but if you really think they're going to pull it out of markets like UK, the EU and China, then miraculously bring it back as a BEV in 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. Product management just doesn't work like that.
I admire the optimism that some of you have, and I also understand those of you making the business case about profitability. But with profitability, there also has to be pride and pioneering. Think about where Lexus would be if they never had products like the IS, GS and SC. Would you even be here? I wouldn't.
Think about a lineup of ES, LS, UX, NX, RX, GX, LX and LC. Think think about Acura and Infiniti, who are also down to one or two sedans. Something about Japanese culture has fundamentally ruined their luxury brands, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Conservatism? Lack of willingness to take risk? Gun shy after the 2009 financial collapse and then the 2011 tsunamis? Acura and Infiniti never got off the ground like Lexus, so seeing them fall and struggle hasn't been as bad, but Lexus' fall is both hard to watch and understand after such incredible success in the 90s and early 00s.
Yes, they're expanding globally and selling more cars than they were before for that reason, but it's clear there is no direction, no plan, no sense of identity and no appreciation for what made them great in the first place.
We know Lexus has a way of fulfilling their own predetermined destiny for certain models:
1. Introduce a product that is half-baked and fundamentally lacking some competitive advantage (a reflection of slashed R&D budgets to begin with).
2. During the lifecycle, do not fully invest in said product to bring it up to par with competitors.
3. Remove or reduce advertising support.
4. Watch sales dwindle.
5. Explain that because of low sales, said vehicle is a waste of resources and those buyers are either non-essential to the brand or can be covered with a different model.
6. Cancel the vehicle in question.
Or put simply: Not invest, neglect, nix.
Pulling the IS out of global markets and saying that the ES sells in higher volume... does that sound similar?
An extended lifecycle with no new or uncompetitive powertrains... seems like I've seen this before?
Unsubstantiated rumors about a next generation when it's clear that the current one is on life support... deja vu?
Lexus has had the last 8+ years to plan and develop a new 4IS, and they didn't. And they didn't even bother to add a new engine, or some new trick technology. You will see this a week from today. The extended lifecycle and lack of investment in the IS is bad enough, but if you really think they're going to pull it out of markets like UK, the EU and China, then miraculously bring it back as a BEV in 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. Product management just doesn't work like that.
I admire the optimism that some of you have, and I also understand those of you making the business case about profitability. But with profitability, there also has to be pride and pioneering. Think about where Lexus would be if they never had products like the IS, GS and SC. Would you even be here? I wouldn't.
Think about a lineup of ES, LS, UX, NX, RX, GX, LX and LC. Think think about Acura and Infiniti, who are also down to one or two sedans. Something about Japanese culture has fundamentally ruined their luxury brands, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Conservatism? Lack of willingness to take risk? Gun shy after the 2009 financial collapse and then the 2011 tsunamis? Acura and Infiniti never got off the ground like Lexus, so seeing them fall and struggle hasn't been as bad, but Lexus' fall is both hard to watch and understand after such incredible success in the 90s and early 00s.
Yes, they're expanding globally and selling more cars than they were before for that reason, but it's clear there is no direction, no plan, no sense of identity and no appreciation for what made them great in the first place.
internalaudit
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It seems Acura for now will be left with a two sedan line up in North America. The 2ILX would be very interesting. It might be the rebirth of the Integra, with 2 or 4-door models (or maybe even a hatch). If Acura slaps the 2ILX with SH-AWD, that car most likely would be loads of fun. Actually just came across an article on thedrive (not sure how good that site is) that the Acura RSX went with MacPherson Struts.
Alex Autos, just last week, test drove the 2020 Civic Type R (CTR) and at around 21 minutes, he wonders what if that car had AWD.
I'll still most likely stick with Lexus or Acura (if only because of the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD -- electric torque vectoring -- that could be a differentiator for BEVs) for my future car purchase. I would be glad to give up 5-10% handling dynamics of a German sports sedan or CUV and incur 50-70% less cost over the lifetime of ownership.
Update:
I saw this on an acurazine thread with 2020 Acura dealership meeting:
Mostly Dealership info. I did notice one tidbit.... "New Compact Sedan" along with a Type S varient in 2022. They didn't say ILX, rather a generic name. Maybe the ILX names goes away when the new model comes out.
Around 36 minutes into the video.
Alex Autos, just last week, test drove the 2020 Civic Type R (CTR) and at around 21 minutes, he wonders what if that car had AWD.
I'll still most likely stick with Lexus or Acura (if only because of the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD -- electric torque vectoring -- that could be a differentiator for BEVs) for my future car purchase. I would be glad to give up 5-10% handling dynamics of a German sports sedan or CUV and incur 50-70% less cost over the lifetime of ownership.
Update:
I saw this on an acurazine thread with 2020 Acura dealership meeting:
Mostly Dealership info. I did notice one tidbit.... "New Compact Sedan" along with a Type S varient in 2022. They didn't say ILX, rather a generic name. Maybe the ILX names goes away when the new model comes out.
Around 36 minutes into the video.
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OlFius
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Really? No more 'refreshed' IS in Europe? And within a few years the rest of the world.
So probably no more RC in the near future?
And Lexus is now trying to sell me a (boring) ES?
I do not think so.
Fortunately, I have no plans to buy a new car and we can only hope that Lexus will surprise us with new models (the cross-overs you know...)
but as we all know, Lexus and planning, that can take a long time...
Oh yeah, the new BMW 4 series looks good ....
So probably no more RC in the near future?
And Lexus is now trying to sell me a (boring) ES?
I do not think so.
Fortunately, I have no plans to buy a new car and we can only hope that Lexus will surprise us with new models (the cross-overs you know...)
but as we all know, Lexus and planning, that can take a long time...
Oh yeah, the new BMW 4 series looks good ....
Gecko
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And a further note: Upon choosing to kill the 5GS late term, how was the decision made to repurpose that work into a niche, fractionally low volume TOYOTA product instead of pivoting to create an all-new 4IS?
The Mirai is cool, sure.
But that chassis is a premium RWD architecture that was originally designed to be a Lexus product and it's hard to watch all of that R&D being turned into a Toyota pet project instead of Lexus' last remaining enthusiast sedan.
I just can't justify this refresh so far.
The Mirai is cool, sure.
But that chassis is a premium RWD architecture that was originally designed to be a Lexus product and it's hard to watch all of that R&D being turned into a Toyota pet project instead of Lexus' last remaining enthusiast sedan.
I just can't justify this refresh so far.