2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

[Osi Onyekwuluje]

GREAT news for us #lexusheads,

 

[corradoMR2]

The May 2017 date confirmation is a great sign though! I don't care what anyone else says, whether here on TLE, or otherwise. I refuse to believe that the LS has been delayed further beyond that. If that somehow turned out as the case, then to me that would indicate Lexus has lost their way. I just can't see Lexus in that situation, so hopefully that never occurs.

I hope you're right but two models (let alone flagships) unveiled at the same time would concentrate interest and getting people in the showrooms in one period of time versus spread out in a more sustainable consistent manner if the LS were to be available for sale later in 2017.

 

[CIF]

I hope you're right but two models (let alone flagships) unveiled at the same time would concentrate interest and getting people in the showrooms in one period of time versus spread out in a more sustainable consistent manner if the LS were to be available for sale later in 2017.

Yes valid point, however as has been eloquently pointed out here on the TLE forums, the problem with this is delaying the LS any further pushes it closer to other coming redesigns in 2018. The next-gen LS has long been overdue, and the current LS generation has had an extremely long model cycle. So Lexus at this point has no choice. They need to release the car as soon as it's ready. The current generation debuted for production in 2006. Assuming the 5LS goes on sale in 2017 as currently predicted, that would be a model cycle of 11 years for the 4LS, which is just absurd. There is nobody to blame here but Lexus themselves for such a ridiculously long model cycle for the 4LS.

I'm not against them spreading out the LS launch over a couple of months. But IMHO it has to remain a 2017 debut at most, as 2018 will be beyond absurd as already discussed ad naseum here on the forums.

What boggles the mind here is the fast-track approach to the production LC. Lexus can easily spread out or change the timing of the LC launch. I don't understand why there is a need for any rush for the production LC. IMHO the next LS should be the top priority to get to production as soon as they can, not the LC.

 

[Gecko]

I think LC goes into production later this year and will be on sale in showrooms approx Jan/Feb of 2017.

If LS goes into production around Feb/March, that would have it in showrooms approx May 2017.

Lexus also has to squeeze in RC refresh, NX refresh and new RX L all in 2017 as 2018 models. Possible CT redesign too. I assume that we might get RX L in mid-2017 and the RC and NX refreshes later in the year as 2018 models.

 

[James]

I think LC goes into production later this year and will be on sale in showrooms approx Jan/Feb of 2017.

If LS goes into production around Feb/March, that would have it in showrooms approx May 2017.

Lexus also has to squeeze in RC refresh, NX refresh and new RX L all in 2017 as 2018 models. Possible CT redesign too. I assume that we might get RX L in mid-2017 and the RC and NX refreshes later in the year as 2018 models.

It just looks like the next two years will be big for Lexus. With a new LS and the new LC that will be a major statement for the brand and then updating RC, NX, and CT will bring the volume in to Lexus to keep sales high. All sounds good as long as we get the LS!!

 

[mikeavelli]

I have to admit I am really confused on what will happen next lol.. but I do know F models are coming and thats what I'm really excited for!

 

[Madi]

I think LC goes into production later this year and will be on sale in showrooms approx Jan/Feb of 2017.

If LS goes into production around Feb/March, that would have it in showrooms approx May 2017.

Lexus also has to squeeze in RC refresh, NX refresh and new RX L all in 2017 as 2018 models. Possible CT redesign too. I assume that we might get RX L in mid-2017 and the RC and NX refreshes later in the year as 2018 models.

Akio Toyoda said in LC reveal it will be in sale in spring 2017, that's mean somewhere between April and June .

And LS many Japanese sources till now agreed in that, the reveal will be in May 2017!! That's just reveal !!!

And if we look at the time that LC will take to be in sale, its impossible for the all-new LS to be in showrooms any day before January 2018, and that makes possibility to be 2019 model year if its will be in sale in June 2018.

Long time to wait bro. but its worth it, i'm pretty sure it will be amazing.

 

[Gecko]

Akio Toyoda said in LC reveal it will be in sale in spring 2017, that's mean somewhere between April and June .

And LS many Japanese sources till now agreed in that, the reveal will be in May 2017!! That's just reveal !!!

And if we look at the time that LC will take to be in sale, its impossible for the all-new LS to be in showrooms any day before January 2018, and that makes possibility to be 2019 model year if its will be in sale in June 2018.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. There is no major global auto show after New York, which is in April, until Tokyo in October or LA in November. Detroit and LA are the two largest shows for media, with LA in November and Detroit in January of the following year.

My personal opinion is that the new LS will debut at NAIAS in Detroit in 2017 as a 2018 model, and be in showrooms the summer after that.

 

[James]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. There is no major global auto show after New York, which is in April, until Tokyo in October or LA in November. Detroit and LA are the two largest shows for media, with LA in November and Detroit in January of the following year.

My personal opinion is that the new LS will debut at NAIAS in Detroit in 2017 as a 2018 model, and be in showrooms the summer after that.

I was just about to ask about when they would reveal it because they want it at an auto show obviously. So more than likely we will see it here in November (prolly too early for Lexus but not for us) or Detriot. But would they want to do it at home for them? Is the LS big there?

 

[Andyl]

Well everyone, these are most certainly not spy shots of the new model yet like I hoped, but it is very much something!
View attachment 1540
Here is basically the new 2018 Lexus LS500 (XF50) of the Toyota 200B project (LC was 950A), from what may be a viewing of the car itself, all provided to Mag X.

This is the only accessible copy outside of Japan (jumped through many "foreigner" hoops to buy this), please be respectful when reposting elsewhere.

My Japanese is rudimentary, so I have yet to fully finish translating anything. And I said before, it still says MAY 2017! Toyota is just hiding this car.
View attachment 1541
I also added an August 2004 Mag X rendering of the 2007 LS460 (design was set in late 2003), which was dead accurate and also the leaked photos by Mag X (also Auto Express) from August 2005 for comparative purposes.
View attachment 1542 View attachment 1543 View attachment 1544
Bear in mind the car was teased in October 2005 as the LF-Sh and unveiled in a form identical to the leak shots in January 2006.

Several people dismissed that as being the 2007 ES350 or just another "lazy guess", which they were wrong in the end.

Great info, carmaker1!

Not sure how you got the MagX but this is the place if I am looking to buy or take a peek at Japanese car magazines, including Mag X.

http://www.as-books.jp/books/info.php?no=NMX20160426

 

[Andyl]

For the article, I found the sub-heading interesting -- it says mirror less is within a year or so but it is not mentioned at all in the entire article. Probably some predictions from the journalist. Well, it is a Scoop magazine. (but some pictures in the past reveal the actual stuff before the rest of the world has it. Example was the dashboard in the latest Civic. )

 

[Gecko]

I was just about to ask about when they would reveal it because they want it at an auto show obviously. So more than likely we will see it here in November (prolly too early for Lexus but not for us) or Detriot. But would they want to do it at home for them? Is the LS big there?

Detroit is overall, the biggest show from a media standpoint. LA is right behind it, but doesn't generate as much media/buzz, and is more of an auto show season kickoff party.

LA hosts a lot of cars that couldn't wait for a fall announcement and were shown in photos/online over the spring/summer/early fall, appearing for the first time on a show table in LA.

Detroit tends to host a lot of first-ever overall global debuts, thus my money is on Detroit for LS.

 

[maiaramdan]

It just looks like the next two years will be big for Lexus. With a new LS and the new LC that will be a major statement for the brand and then updating RC, NX, and CT will bring the volume in to Lexus to keep sales high. All sounds good as long as we get the LS!!

you forgot the 2018 next generation GS

 

[Hemi]

I heard few months ago either from Mr. Templin or someone else from Lexus that LS delay is probably caused by its high technological improvement compared to the current market. Not sure though. I also heard an information that LS might be first luxury car without rearview mirrors as the concept has. Everything is possible

Neverthelss lets hope that new LS will fully represent what Lexus has really become and will in close future which will dismiss most of the doubts of some people that it is just more expensive Toyota.

 

[isanatori]

Both of you are circling around my pet theory of what happened with the next-generation LS -- I think the new S-Class was so revolutionary that Lexus decided it was better to delay the new LS than try to compete with what they had. In essence, the S-Class comes out and it was back to the drawing board for the next-gen LS.

Because of that, I really do think the new LS is going to be a shocking new development, something unexpected. If you take the release of the LC as an example of how Lexus is handling the concept-to-production phase, an LS built VERY CLOSE to the LF-FC concept would be jaw-dropping, with the potential to upset the S-Class dominance.

The 5th gen LS should have been released at 2012. Which means that by 2011 we should had seen the prototype Lexus "had to ditch, because of the superior competition". If I recall correctly, there wasn't any Lexus LS concept at that time, or even later until the hydrogen LF-FC we all know. Therefore we must assume that Lexus had seen the S-class prototype two years before its public first show. How is this even possible?

I don't see how Lexus would have any idea what was happening by that time. By 2009 instead, Toyota had showed their intention to go fuel cell. They even touted the highlander FCHV-adv getting over 400 miles on a tank of hydrogen. But it would be too early to introduce a platform able to carry the FC power train at 2012. At final, Toyota had to accomplish their next target. Many people asked what Prius meant. Toyota replied "to go before".When Mirai released some searched the Japanese dictionaries and found it meant "Future". I believe the LF-FC concept packages a brand new Fuel cell power train (an evolution from Mirai "Future" power train).

 

[spwolf]

I think LC goes into production later this year and will be on sale in showrooms approx Jan/Feb of 2017.

If LS goes into production around Feb/March, that would have it in showrooms approx May 2017.

Lexus also has to squeeze in RC refresh, NX refresh and new RX L all in 2017 as 2018 models. Possible CT redesign too. I assume that we might get RX L in mid-2017 and the RC and NX refreshes later in the year as 2018 models.

what about new GS too? And GX.... and LX. And CX.

It is never ending

With LC and CX, Lexus will have enough models to have MMC or FMC every 3-4 months.... CT, ES, IS, GS, LS, LC and CX, NX, RX, RX-L, GX, LX.

LC was sped up simply because it is halo vehicle for the brand. It is marketing, not money maker. So sooner it comes out, it benefits Lexus more.

As to the LS, I am not so sure how important it is right now, but as carmaker1 mentioned they have to release it since design will become dated otherwise. It would benefit Lexus more if LS was released at the time when sedans are purchased more (2019?) but again, design should have been finished a while ago so thats not possible.

 

[mikeavelli]

Featured by AutoSpies and not one iota of credit given
http://www.autospies.com/news/RENDE...e-All-New-Lexus-LS-Is-It-A-STUD-or-DUD-88320/

 

[James]

Well everyone, these are most certainly not spy shots of the new model yet like I hoped, but it is very much something!
View attachment 1540
Here is basically the new 2018 Lexus LS500 (XF50) of the Toyota 200B project (LC was 950A), from what may be a viewing of the car itself, all provided to Mag X.

This is the only accessible copy outside of Japan (jumped through many "foreigner" hoops to buy this), please be respectful when reposting elsewhere.

My Japanese is rudimentary, so I have yet to fully finish translating anything. And I said before, it still says MAY 2017! Toyota is just hiding this car.
View attachment 1541
I also added an August 2004 Mag X rendering of the 2007 LS460 (design was set in late 2003), which was dead accurate and also the leaked photos by Mag X (also Auto Express) from August 2005 for comparative purposes.
View attachment 1542 View attachment 1543 View attachment 1544
Bear in mind the car was teased in October 2005 as the LF-Sh and unveiled in a form identical to the leak shots in January 2006.

Several people dismissed that as being the 2007 ES350 or just another "lazy guess", which they were wrong in the end.

Carmaker1 was that you on the post on the other site making all those comments with the same tag? If so props for going up against the world! Most of those comments hated everything about Lexus it seemed (I think someone said a Buick was better...umm how?) anyone is that was you big props!

 

[Carmaker1]

Glad to have found this rendering, so that it can at least be posted here and shared with the rest of the world, to provide more insight on this car. However, not to be pedantic, but understanding product development and the situation with the 5LS and LF-FC, this is not identical to that of the relationship between the LF-LC and LC.

The 5LS might have had its final body design approved mid-2014, especially since a prototype was shown to UK personnel in October 2014. My Lexus dealer director Steve Batchelor, is unfortunately too loyal and will not spill any info about it.

I have happened some interesting information regarding timeline though about the LF-FC.

LF-FC Ideation Front Fascia - September 9, 2014


LF-FC Ideation Rear - December 3, 2014

LF-FC 1:1 Clay Model - December 3, 2014

The LF-FC was designed rapidly in succession to the 5LS during the second half of 2014. In terms of proper tense, one cannot really say that the 5LS design has been influenced by the LF-FC Concept, when the was developed prior to it. No offense, but this irks me with news reports, since it contradicts actual internal development timelines.

I believe they share the same design concept, which both likely derived from ideation sketches of the chosen 200B programme body design.

Basically the 5LS production design and the LF-FC concept, are likely the "children" of the winning 200B programme styling proposal for the 5LS.

This was essentially the same story with the LF-NX, that was developed during 2013, off of the production design NX design, which was frozen in mid-2012 and first approved in early 2012.

The LF-NX might have been shown first in September 2013, but the NX requiring more engineering, preceded it and took longer to debut. The NX design was approved roughly 3 years before it arrived in showrooms. The engineering behind the NX must've been equally complex.

In the case of the LF-LC, the production LC500 coupe design of 2013-14 by Tadao Mori, is the spawn of Edward Lee's 2011 concept design, since Lee's LF-LC is the original.

I must correct a prior comment I made, as the 5LS was not designed at the Tokyo Design Centre, but rather Aichi Technical Centre. Tokyo Design only does advanced design, not production. It is also why Calty Newport Beach did not get the production LC, as only CALTY Ann Arbor, MI does production cars.

There was no way Toyota Motor Co. nor Toyoda himself, would allow Ann Arbor personnel to design and engineer a new flagship Lexus coupe. Like the production LC, this car (5LS) seems to be a Japan HQ project, through and through..

Alternatively, I do have some reservations about this Mag X rendering, believing it is too tame and missing some details. I will point that out in a subsequent post.

On another note, I must say that the May 2017 date is not showroom arrival (nor unveiling date), concerns start of production or sales (ordering) commencement. I had pointed out a number of times, that Mag X dates tend to correlate with start of series production or the start of Lexus Japan customer orders.

The date Mag X provided for the NX in a June 2012 publication, was July 2014, which saw the car going into production then, rolling off assembly on August 9, 2014 and arriving abroad in late November 2014.

In fact, study all of the publications from Mag X the past few years and you will see the relationship with 4RX. Not to mention, another Japanese magazine provided in February 2011, a January 2012 launch date for the current GS. It indeed was launched in late January 2012.

February 2011 4GS Publication

February 2013 RC Spy Shot

August 2013 4RX Test Mule

AL20 RX Prototype - October 2014

4RX Prototype Leaked - December 2014

The 2018 LS will arrive in showrooms around August-September 2017, as production might start in May-June 2017. The LC by comparison is concluding development and entering pilot production, when that will shift over to official production in December (March 2017 release).

 

[CIF]

As often is the case with Lexus concepts, the concept mostly takes design elements from the production model, not the other way around. It's a strong certainty the LF-FC concept's design is based off of the production 5LS, at least in terms of the exterior. Interior may be a different story. LC production interior turned out quite different from the LF-LC concept.

Also with this in mind, that means the production 5LS design was indeed already frozen by the end of 2014, likely even even by mid-2014, as you point out Carmaker1. One can only hope that the long time we've been waiting for the 5LS since then (and continuing into next year) is due to unprecedented testing. I am also now more confident than ever that an original idea for the 5LS, likely around 2010-2011, was scrapped at that time by Akio Toyoda, ideas were incorporated into the 2013 refresh, and Akio Toyoda sent the team back to the drawing board, having raised his bar of expectations. We'll never have 100% proof, but this all makes sense now in terms of timeline. The 2011 disaster simply delayed the process, as I think without it the current and final 5LS production design would have been finalized in 2013, if not for the disaster.

It's an unfortunate set of circumstances for 5LS development, but most of the blame ultimately still rests with Toyota for the unbearably long model cycle of the 4LS.