Everyone, this car is NOT coming in 2018, it is getting an unveiling in the coming months. NAIAS may have seen the LC last month, but next year is the MY2018 LS! I would like for anyone here to prove to me, that besides this vague article, what concretely gives away that it truly will debut in 2018? People need to learn to properly differentiate between model years and calendar years, especially journalists or those passing on any news/tidbits of info.
A 2018 "model year" car can go on sale on January 2, 2017 and run through December 31, 2018, due to absurd US "laws". I hate that practice, like that of what Lexus did with the 4GS and now LC. It makes for unusually long model year, that really shouldn't go beyond 11-12 months. A better fit would be, YYYY 1/2 model years applying to anything launched between March 15th
and July 15th. Anything before that CY (2017)=MY (2017), anything after equals CY (2017) + 1 = MY (2018). I would be more irritated that the 4LS managed to be retained for 11 years, rather than replaced at 8-9.5 years instead, and write-off this irrelevant theory from this writer.
Japanese media already have said otherwise, as well as other reputable sources. Many foolish sources claimed the production LS would debut in Tokyo, when I stated otherwise. At this point, the latest it would arrive is January 2018, due to a 5-6 month delay.
So it's two years away.
The LS is gonna get murdered in the market until then, with the new S and 7 out there, and Cadillac starting to venture into the field from below.
One thing I think Lexus will do is do away with the traditional rearview mirror.
I think a camera projection will appear on the top of the windshield.
They may do away with side mirrors too for cameras.
Just a hunch.
BD
It is not 2 years out, Christie Schweinsberg got it wrong and is not bothering to thoroughly do her job in understanding her subject fully. One could easily say the LC500 "comes out in 2018", based on the 2018 MY designation, when that is far from the truth. People always get this wrong and it gets tiring, as it certainly does make a difference. She dislikes Lexus products, judging by
her terrible write-up on the 3rd generation GS in 2005.
Clearly she didn't give a damn if she got the details right. This statement of "
For the next-generation LS, expected in 2018...," is her own indifferent guesswork, NOT a direct quote from Templin himself.
A8 is due by the 2nd half of this year or the 1st half of 2017
this purely not good from Lexus as if they wanna kill the LS name
same as they did before with the SC
The D5 A8, which will arrive by mid-2017, not this year. I've heard great things about that car, from those working on it and as suppliers to the D5 programme. Like the LS, both were set in stone in 2014. The LS will enter production in mid-2017, so this report from Ward's Auto is made useless by that fact. People must be careful with their grammar and how they use prepositions, as many things can be misconstrued as seen by this.
Just saying "in 2018" doesn't differentiate between calendar year (Jan-Dec) versus model year, which can start in the US on January 2, 2017 and ends on December 31, 2018. 2018 model year would be more proper, than just saying 2018, as the recipient of your statement may not know what you meant
Hard to argue with this -- it's all starting to remind me of the delays with the LFA when they moved from aluminum to carbon fiber. Must have been some pretty major changes to the LS, as I can't think this is a strategic move to space out model launches.
I don't believe this is the case, it is going to be a 2017 calendar year introduction. I don't see anything that is a direct word-for-word quote from Mark Templin, that specifically said, "The LS will be launched in 2018".
Everyday (in my free time) I try to challenge/fight such inaccurate wording with the mapping of automotive life-cycles/dates/model years, with markets such as the US, it can be misleading. There are many that inaccurately claim the LS was last redesigned in 2007, but in concrete time that is not the case.
It was leaked in April & September 2005, revealed in January 2006, and launched in September-October 2006 as a
2007 model. That was deep in the middle of 2000s, not as recent as the late 2000s. Like-wise for many other Lexus models, regarding discrepancies with vehicle timelines.
It is similar to how I now hear the 4GS "came out in 2013", when it debuted in August 2011 and went on sale in early 2012. Imagine if we were being told 5 years ago, "The fourth generation GS will debut in 2013" when shown the LF-Gh? How accurate would that be? It wouldn't, by being misleading.
I trust such incomplete journalism with a grain of salt, unless verified numerous times or it fits in elsewhere. I would continue on with your excellent efforts and dismiss her misleading drivel. It will be 15-16 months from now that some form of LS production starts.
I guess to me there isn't much to criticize as it would be beating a dead horse.
We all know the LS is long in the tooth and is on its last legs but if you look at sales figures here in the states, it still sells #2/#3 most months. The substantial refresh gave it enough legs until this all new model arrives.
As a LS F-Sport owner I'm well aware of its deficiencies when I drive a S550, S63, S8 etc. Hopefully with the next LS, they are clearly addressed and the LS is considered among the top of the heap again.
On a related note, the Flagship market has completely changed. This used to be a market dominated by the S-class, LS and 7-series. Now the A8 has gotten better. We now have the Panamera and updated XJ and Maserati Quattroporte. We have even the Hyundia/Kia cars. In addition, we have cars like the A 7/CLS/6 Gran Coupe that are priced in this same area and likely took some sales.
Thus from everything I have heard, the new LS will be boldly different than years past, where Lexus knows it will alienate a lot of past LS customers. Which means they are
hard at work on the next GS to try to keep some people there.
Yes, the 5GS is probably in the concept design stages right now, if not in the design freezing process already (4-6 months) and already settled on. The 3GSh refresh (second 3GS update) in 2009 (MY2010), paralleled design approval of the 4GS. The 4GS facelift arrived 4 months ago and a late 2018 redesign is likely a given for the 5GS (L20) on the GA-L platform.
With Toyota, it is 30-36 months for concept approval to Job 1 on high-end models with new platforms, so it might be midway by now and a winning design proposal already set.
Regarding the LS refresh, 6 years is too long to last as a secondary facelift of a 12-year old car (by 2018), designed in both 2003 and 2010. The LS sells as well as it does still, as its competitors cost more or do not possess the same level of prestige. This argument can be made now, but not as of this fall (MY changeover), next year, nor 2018. It either needs to updated some more or keep the successor on schedule.
MB fans may want to be nostalgic nowadays, pretending as if things were rosy and the W126 was okay to keep past its sell-by-date. MB were already being criticized in 1989-1990 for taking too long to replace the aging W126 S-Class (since Jan 1980), while endlessly delaying the W140 from what should've been December 1989, getting derision from writers.
Some journos stupidly quipped that the "New S-Class will arrive in 1992", when it was shown in one single photo on November 16, 1990, spied uncloaked in late 1990 up to presentation in Geneva on March 5, 1991. It went on sale by summer and fall 1991 for MY1992, NOT 1 additional year later.: unamused: The LS will echo this.
I'm sorry but Lexus is losing a lot of mindshare in the luxury field by delaying the LS more and more. With Tesla becoming a new up and coming brand in this segment, and MB/BMW/Audi all developing their flagship cars at a faster pace and at a higher quality: Lexus is hurting their brand at the higher end. It already suffers in perception against the Germans, and having no new / fresh flagship car means losing prestige and mindshare to these other brands. Lexus is pretty lucky to have the LC coming in as a stopgap, but I think the over 10-12 years of wait for a new flagship sedan will stunt their (good) worldwide growth. The LS better be amazing at this point.
By 2018, we will probably see mules of the next generation S class.
Australia gets it in 2018, not the rest of the world (which is next year). I agree with your points, as that already is happening with brand perception and has been since last year (more than 8 years is too much). The LS is currently the only non-performance edition, high end offering from Lexus right now (and no the RC-F and GS-F don't count), that isn't the LX (heavily shares with premium Land Cruiser 200). It was mostly designed 12-13 years ago (final '07 design concept by end of 2003), yet sold years later in a very competitive and superficial segment.
The 2nd LS facelift (XF40 III) was designed in 2010, so that is reaching 6 years since creation. By comparison in that area, the W222 S-Class design is 7 years old, new G11 7-Series is 4 years old, D4.5 A8 is 4 years old (truly 9 years), and XJ facelift design is almost 3 years old (truly 9). Even if some keep excusing the delayed LS, claiming that the MY2013-present version helps save face, again remember that it is 5 year old design efforts and not ground-up.
You are 100% correct regarding the S. The next S-Class is already in the design process, getting final design concept approval in either Q4 of 2016 or early 2017. By the fall of 2017, the next S-Class will be fully designed and the first mules will be seen by Q4 2017-Q1 2018. Specification-exact prototypes are a given in 2018. The W222 successor began development well over a year ago. I had said previously upon W222 debut in 2013, that the 2017 facelift would be designed through spring 2015 for mid-2017 launch and first spied by late 2015. I turned out to be 100% correct.
Not to go too off-topic, but so back to Lexus, at least and before the S-Class commentary.
The LS is not sold in enough countries either, by Lexus' unwillingness to expand into many other territories. Global sales will never match Audi, BMW, and MB as long as Lexus is only sold in Europe and North America. It wouldn't hurt to at least officially import 5-10 of richest countries in Africa with sizeable populace. South Africa seems to be the only country (which I imagine is only because of the wealthy white Afrikaner and British diaspora customer base), that has a Lexus presence officially. Yet, the likes of Lagos, Cairo, Abidjan, Abuja, Accra, Nairobi, Dakar, and Morocco have to resort to grey market imports, at the expense of Lexus USA allotment.
Lexus is a very popular brand Nigeria (as well as much of Africa), due to durability and the guaranteed comfort, yet have always been snubbed by Toyota execs. Since LS400, it has been a prestigious brand in Nigeria (and other "wealthy" African countries) and was further entrenched by the LX470 by 1999-2000. Seen as packaging all of the luxury of LS400, into an SUV with Land Cruiser capability (an already prestigious model). Infiniti wasn't as respected there by the elites, until the QX56 started being imported and skyrocketed with the "whale-shaped" Z62 from 2010. Yet, neither does Infiniti (QX80) sell officially there, but they invested in local Patrol (Y62) production (also called 2017 Armada).
Some may dismiss that country (and much of Africa) here over "concerns", but it is Africa's richest nation as of late and most populous. Many of them own Lexus products, though US East Coast and Houston, Texas Lexus dealers, LHD Europe, or the Middle East, since there is no official Lexus dealer with LHD products in Africa. When they cannot get what they want from Lexus locally in Nigeria and more luxury than the Land Cruiser 200, they end up going to the Audi, BMW, Land Rover, MB, or Porsche dealer instead for a Q7, X5, Disco 4, RR, Cayenne, or ML/GLE, GL/GLS, despite troubling reliability for the former three brands. This applies probably to Ghana, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Kenya, and North Africa as well.
India is at least getting the Lexus brand now, but other parts of Asia need some Lexus centres or official importers. No excuse, when Rolls-Royce and Porsche are in many places where Lexus does not exist officially. Besides MB, Audi and BMW were allowed to establish a vast customer base from the 1980's to 2000's in new territories, where Lexus never treaded and still has not. The US and Chinese market are not the world and it is high time that they figured that out. They will never expand their volume, as long as they continue to limit their market.
They brought Lexus to Japan 10.5 years ago, so now they should add more countries, than only just India and a few others. Think of how Infiniti has no presence in Japan. They are not selling Lamborghinis or Mclarens, so this "exclusivity" of skipping certain markets is shameful 26-26 1/ years later. Mercedes-Benz is everywhere, so no reason why Lexus is inactive. No wonder the S-Class has a massive dominance, when you can practically buy one anywhere worldwide. The 7-Series is not too far off from that either.
Have to agree with the thread, why so long? A new S class will be on the starting grid by then. I think Toyota need to shake themselves even when they are late to the party like with the GS F it still comes second/third to Bmw and Merc, why? They tackled this specific section of the market i.e. sports model deluxe and then make it slower than the existing class leaders. I have heard all the stories that it is cheaper and has more of this and that, Lexus failed in what they set their sights on and this is disappointing to all Lexus owners.
Very disappointed in this latest delay and I say this as a loyal Lexus owner (2) of ten years standing (and will buy another no doubt), but if this site is to be useful then give honest and positive criticism and use it to assist Lexus - and not just mindlessly endorse everything as wonderful.
I understand your frustration, but like me, krew prefers to be generally positive or fair and impartial as possible, by presenting news and providing a venue to discuss things about Lexus. I only discuss the negative or give strong opinions, when it concerns erroneous information, counter unfair opinionated statements (in comment section), or glaring omissions.
The delay is not going to be 2018, but remain that of a 2017 calendar year launch. It should've been here no later than early 2016. The author of that article, is not trying to remember the difference between a 2018 calendar launch and the model year. The Lc500 and LS500 are both 2018 model year cars. The LC500 will arrive early and the LS during the traditional model year changeover period. Japanese sources have said "May 2017" since December 2014, some time after prototypes were shown to executive personnel in fall 2014 of the final design.
You can tell that the LF-FC previews the LS, as some 5LS renders were made in late 2014 that foreshadowed the concept, as some cues did appear on the LF-FC (aka 5LS sans concept skin). Clearly the artist of them being a Toyota outsider, was given hints in 2014 by a Lexus/Toyota insider that had seen the final car, but couldn't execute the hints accurately. At this point, all that matters is getting it to run and stop with all that tech, build tooling and final prototypes. It is probably too far along to be changed up from approval again.
The next S-Class is already in development and mid-stage by next year. By the end of 2016, they will even know what it will mostly look like for 2021. All of us know that's how Mercedes rolls.
Lexus better deliver a hell of a car and that the facelift delivers even more come 2020-21. The current S was practically done by April 2009, so the next one isn't far off in that area.
I believe it was ten years ago when wheels were being set in motion when I remember an article from a Lexus executive stating something to the effect "we will try our best to appease current loyal Lexus owners while reaching out to new ones but we cannot be held back anymore into just being safe and appealing to the same people".
As I just searched and posted these pics, I am stunned at the transformation of the front end of the LS from harmless to wants to eat your baby
I would actually include facelifts of the previous generations as well, as it is all careful and gradual evolution of a design lineage. The design brief or originating design influence for a new generation, is the outgoing or face-lifted version, before a theme and then production concept are settled on. They basically evolved the XF40 III design into what the LF-FC previews.
As for your comment regarding a previous Lexus executive, I ironically just came across a statement from 2004, yesterday doing research on Dennis Clements. This is what he said on April 8, 2004, after debuting the lightly veiled LF-C Concept preview of the 2006 IS (already signed off):
"Expect more boldy styled cars from Lexus. Our customers have told us they're looking for more emotional and elegant design."
A two year wait for the LS is definitely a killer in terms of the LS's market share. As far as a new flagship piece, the LC will bridge that gap and give customers a taste of what's to come. The was the LC was received in Detroit and how I think the hybrid version will be received in Geneva will keep anticipation high. Besides the more S-classes and 7-series that sell between now and then means there will be so many more people to trade out of them
It's not going to be a 2 year wait (the author is incorrect), as the LC precedes the LS by probably half a year. By the time LC goes on sale, the LS would've been unveiled and already a few months into pilot production (4-6 months). The LC debut is only what counts right now, but it doesn't even go on sale until next March (2017). That might become my first Lexus and an LS600hL successor, my first large saloon purchase.
I truly and sincerely hope it there were major changes that forced the LS to be delayed so long. Otherwise many Lexus fans will be very angry, not to mention Lexus may lose some existing LS owners/buyers if the new LS isn't good enough, given this delay.
Wow Mike, that's possibly very significant. Have you heard in what ways will the new LS alienate buyers? Will it be more than just styling? So you've heard the next GS is going to become more like the classic LS? I'm trying to comprehend this, as the GS is supposed to be the more sporty, driver-focused model. The only way that could work is if the next-gen GS gets a more luxurious, long-wheelbase variant. Yet, this news would mean the LS becomes more of a niche model than in the past.
Yes some competitors in the class have changed, but the top dog, the S Class, still remains absolutely about pure luxury, and it embraces it's role as a prestige flagship model. I really hope the next-gen LS doesn't stray from that.
I am already angry that this didn't arrive for at least a 2016 launch, short of 10 years this September (the 4LS deserves a 10th anniversary edition
), but I would dismiss her commentary. As I said above, this nothing more than her filling between the lines, NOT providing concrete information and her muddling the difference between model year and calendar year.
I stress this for reason so many times and it just looks like I am coming across as pedantic, but there's a reason for it. So that everyone is on the same page and not mislead or confused by anything. The next LS is definitely coming next year, if not being unveiled by December of this year. It is likely that a NAIAS reveal will happen, 28 years after the original in 1989. May 2017 still very much has to do with LS, indifferent journalists are not the final authority on that. I trust Japanese information, more so than a woman who rarely has much good to say about the brand and was likely assigned this topic.
Lexus would not leave the LS facelift relatively unchanged for 6 years (from 2012), before launching a new generation. Infiniti does that kind of thing though (see Q60, QX50, and QX70). A mini refresh would have to suffice as another stop gap, since
The new LS quietly being tested at this point, the way the LC was 1 year ago. Eventually we will see something in the form of shots from a Japanese magazine or LHD prototypes in Europe in a few months. Little did we know (I thank TRDFantasy), that Lexus was testing the LF-LC in some late 2013 spy shots in a camouflaged low-roof 4GS, for the GA-L platform, labeled by Mag X as "950A SC". That is the official name of the LC programme.
He (TRD) said to me on here in January 2014 that Toyota was probably testing their modular platform, which was the first time I ever heard of a Toyota modular platform project. Many, many months later, the TNGA and GA-L platforms were respectively revealed. Why did he know so much about that back then is my question.
Right when I saw spy shots of the LS mule last May, I immediately recanted my statements regarding a 2016 introduction. Parallel to that, was the announcement of a LS reveal in Tokyo. I then immediately knew from recent (deep) online research and "field research", the LS was not due until May 2017 in some form. This Tokyo showing was going to be a concept, in not even seeing any prototypes testing at that point.
I tried to debunk these "LS debut" theories by numerous media houses/blogs/forums, until the LF-FC was finally revealed last October. For LC the dates of November 2016 and December 2016 were always stated by Japanese sources since 2014. It was confirmed last year, that LC production would begin in November 2016 for mid-late January launch, which has been delayed to December and late Feb/early March.
The 4RX was caught testing in mule form by August 2013, with a Mag-X given date of August 2015. Two years later, 4RX production started in September 2015 for early November. The RC350 was spied in full-form by February 2013, with a given date of August 2014 at the time. That is when RC350 production started (late August), for early November launch. Same with reports about the NX in 2012-13, for August 2014.
There's a pattern of accuracy. In fact Mike, first reported on another site back in mid-2014, that the LS would arrive in the summer of 2017 as a MY2018. Nearly everyone (including me) disputed that and claimed that it must be summer 2016 as a MY2017. How right he was back then, as that is really the case.
Auto News reported this about the LS in late 2013, that it would arrive in the summer of 2017 for the 2018 model year and have not changed their stance on it since. Everyone else said otherwise, regarding 2015 for MY2016, 2016 for MY2017, which all turned out to be incorrect. The LF-FC was shown, 14 months ahead of what might really the actual production LS debut.
I wouldn't worry about Lexus alienating customers too much. Maybe with price shock, as the LS in America as an LWB, may start at $90,000 USD, with a new FI 3.0 litre 6 cylinder SWB slotting below at $75,000 USD. The 4 Cylinder may not be offered everywhere. The LS is probably going to better balance both luxury and performance much, as well as become more exclusive. The next GS might have an LWB, which would be on table right now, as design work is very pivotal on that right now.
By the time the new LS actually comes out, there will be an entirely new generation of S Class and A8, meaning the 4LS spanned two generations of those cars. I really hope we're not looking at any more than an 18 month timeline or so... the car is too old as it stands now.
Someone above raised the point about how this segment is changing with SUVs now being the focus for consumers. I could not agree more, and think this is the perfect time for Lexus to switch up the tried and true formula of the LS. Go big or go home. Make it larger, more expensive, more presence, more technology and elevate the GS to fill that $60-80k hole.
In the meantime, Lexus needs to figure out what their plans are for the GX redesign, a full LX redesign in ~2 years and a 3-row crossover. Not having a crossover larger than RX is really hurting them right now.
We're not looking at more than an 18 month timeline, please don't believe that writer. I am dead certain that we are not looking at 2018, as in the grand scheme of things, model years don't really matter regarding actual day-to-day or month-to-month timelines. Apparently she thinks that Templin's mention of "2018 LS" means the actual year, which is not the case.
"Expected in 2018", doesn't say that Templin said to her word-for-word that it is due in 2018. That is her assertion alone and not Templin's declaration. Either May or June 2017 is start of production for US/UK launch in July-August 2017 or thereabout, on the heels of the LC.
I'm not sure that's a good idea to take with the GS, when the 5-Series will come out cheaper. It is not going to be that drastic, as in the GS becoming a large semi-flagship and LS some direct Panamera competitor. Or maybe I'm wrong, as that appears to be what Infiniti is doing with the Q80.
Whatever they're doing with the 5GS, it happens NOW at HQ. Either yesterday, today, or very near tomorrow. They are clearly eager to switch to GA-L with the L20 (5GS), XE40 (4IS), and XC20 (2RC), so the first up is 5GS and that may be out by end of 2018. Less than 3 years remaining, is when the heat turns up with major product planning decisions for sizeable RWD luxury cars. They know what it looks like mostly, even if not final. Ditto for the 7ES as well, which is much further along.
The 3GX had to have been decided on by now. Either it was dropped or likely signed-off, being prepared for 2017-18 launch. The CUV is probably more far along than an LX successor. The next LX will not be introduced prior to 2019. The Land Cruiser 300 will probably be shown during the second half of next year, with sales starting in 2018. They were choosing final designs for that 2 years ago, so it is coming much sooner like the CUV. The Lexus LX might go its separate ways, as the Land Cruiser 200 was given minimal updates by comparison and has a successor already signed-off. The LX might adopt IRS, for MY2020 and is likely being designed at this point.
All that noise about an RX crossover, seems to make wonder about how truly valid they were in comparison to TX.
So, the new LS will start with LS500 & LS500h
Yes, that was revealed 9 months ago. as soon as they filed LC500 and LC500h trademarks in 2014, I knew this would be the case. The LS500h filing was enough to confirm that for me last May. The LS will come with a 3.0 6-cylinder, as that was confirmed by some UK people on this forum and to me, by those who were shown the 5LS in late 2014. The question is when? For the 2019 model year, as maybe the LS400t?
What about the Fuel Cell? Btw what will they name it cause LSF needs to be the performance one!
It was already said that won't come until 2020 (facelift). LS-F might take a long time to come, like by mid-2019.
No mention of next gen LS (topic here) with 4 banger coming to US fortunately.
And on the other sedans (IS, GS) Lexus offering a turbo4 as entry level engine (like top premium brands BMW and Mercedes) makes sense as long as they continue to offer optional V6 versions with additional horsepower too. I think the premium car market is adapting well to this approach in small-mid premium sedans and coupes, (different segments than LS).
I believe that a 6-cylinder 3.0 TT LS was confirmed in late 2014, but where are the trademarks?
