2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

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meth.ix

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Next year could be: LC launch, LS redesign, NX MMC, RC MMC and RC-C, RXL, and CT redesign.

Besides that I don't see why that is such a big deal for Toyota to handle many model updates in one year. An LC and LS in the same year is just fine, plus what is intended.

I only mentioned this, as in having recently read silly excuses on a major Lexus forum that the new LS should be delayed to 2018-19 to leave next year for the LC, as if there are no resources to not have both of them be released months apart.

Stupid reasoning, when pushing that car back any further will mean it also encroaches on, ES, GS, GX, UX, IS, LX, and RC/NX redesigns/launches through 2020.
I would like the RC convertible to be called the RC ***c just like the IS 350c, but what about the RC F convertible? What will that be called? RC cF? RC Fc? Or will they just call it RC F Convertible for the RC F variant?
 

meth.ix

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An LS F wouldn't be too hard to create as they already have the LS Sports TMG 650 engine ready. 641hp, 199 MPH top speed, 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, sounds incredibly similar to the S65 to me.
 

mikeavelli

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Take a guess...;)



If you really think about it, the LC is really being released this year, since it does go into production in December.

Next year could be: LC launch, LS redesign, NX MMC, RC MMC and RC-C, RXL, and CT redesign.

Besides that I don't see why that is such a big deal for Toyota to handle many model updates in one year. An LC and LS in the same year is just fine, plus what is intended.

I only mentioned this, as in having recently read silly excuses on a major Lexus forum that the new LS should be delayed to 2018-19 to leave next year for the LC, as if there are no resources to not have both of them be released months apart.

Stupid reasoning, when pushing that car back any further will mean it also encroaches on, ES, GS, GX, UX, IS, LX, and RC/NX redesigns/launches through 2020.
Dealers are begging for a new LS, there was even a new article on it recently we featured here. As a LS owner (14) its simply way to old in the tooth though it has aged amazingly well. Lexus continues to redefine themselves randomly instead of top down....In a perfect world it would have been
LFA
new LS
IS/RC (F)
GS F
LC

Instead we got
IS F
LFA
RC F
GS F
no new LS
waiting on LC

Like KREW mentioned sounds like the LC/LS will restart the brand once again. I do agree with you its quite perplexing how such a large amazing company cannot do both a new LS/LC at the same time. It sounds like it will be a rough 2 years until the LS is launched with new engines/platform.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Toyota for whatever reason likes to apply changes at the low-end first. A lot of the major features of the infotainment system in the early 2000s appeared first in Scions and took a few years to make it into the LS, which always seemed exactly backwards to me. I was hoping LFA was a sign that priorities were being rearranged, but we don't seem to be there yet.
 

Carmaker1

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I'm not one for definitive statements, but like you've been saying, the LS is practically guaranteed to come out next year. Detroit has been the rumor for some time.

If Lexus was to wait for a 2018 release, the LS had better hover off the ground and be able to leave Earth orbit.
My thing is just that, I don't understand where these pushback to 2018/"2 years from now" rumours are coming from.

They all seem to have no actual basis at the moment, being that the majority of these comments were made tongue-in-cheek or out of pessimism, prior to the recent earthquake.

At this point there are prototypes testing in Japan. I am entirely unable to buy a copy of Mag X's June edition, which has photography of some sort of the 200B programme's LS on page 12.

I believe this refers to a prototype of the new model or another useless, yet informative rendering.

Mag X and "Honto.jp" (Mag X seller) requires that you reside in a Japanese prefecture to be a member.

I am so insistent on next year, as no Japanese sources have said otherwise nor the most reputable industry sources. All I have heard regarding a 2018 release, is from lackadaisical forum comments or taken out of context Templin commentary.

I cannot understand how they will show this car in the fall of 2014 to personnel, then need another 4 more years to produce it. One still needs to account for how long this will be in production and not wanting it to become dated before mid-cycle circa 2021.

If this thing is really 2 years out, it better obliterate the S-Class V8 at the very least or I will lose respect for this brand. More 1.5 years from now, pushes it too far.

I honestly just laugh at the massive 4LS sales decline at this point, as hopefully they get the message and ensure that the current doesn't go beyond MY2017.

I have to wonder if Toyoda not being chairman, still has an effect on his overall power at Toyota. Takeshi Uchiyamada has blame for this all and many company setbacks.

Anyways, I do thank you krew, for being focused on delivering excellent and factual content, rather just jumping to be first with news.
 

Carmaker1

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I would like the RC convertible to be called the RC ***c just like the IS 350c, but what about the RC F convertible? What will that be called? RC cF? RC Fc? Or will they just call it RC F Convertible for the RC F variant?
Well, the term convertible is rarely used outside of North America. It will be interesting to see what happens. Likely RC-FC, as the body configuration suffix "L" is applied similarly.

The fact the ISC is still sold, gives me the impression they are working on a successor of some sort due soon.

Dealers are begging for a new LS, there was even a new article on it recently we featured here. As a LS owner (14) its simply way to old in the tooth though it has aged amazingly well. Lexus continues to redefine themselves randomly instead of top down....In a perfect world it would have been
LFA
new LS
IS/RC (F)
GS F
LC

Instead we got
IS F
LFA
RC F
GS F
no new LS
waiting on LC

Like KREW mentioned sounds like the LC/LS will restart the brand once again. I do agree with you its quite perplexing how such a large amazing company cannot do both a new LS/LC at the same time. It sounds like it will be a rough 2 years until the LS is launched with new engines/platform.
The Top-Down approach is very important as you said in the luxury segment, especially with brands such as Lexus and Mercedes Benz.

You would not have Mercedes-Benz letting the C-Class or A-Class introduce new technology and design to the model range, you would have the S-Class do that. You do not want your lesser products to allow innovations flow upwards. Bad product planning.

The latest MB design language was for the S-Class in 2009, then other models followed developmentally. The W222 S-Class being delayed 9 months, allowed the A-Class and E-Class facelift to debut Sensual Purity design.

MB is working on a serious S-Class redesign, that will be truly revolutionary (W222 is great, but evolutionary). This will butt heads with the new Lexus Fuel Cell due in 2020.

It Toyota is serious, they can easily match, if not surpass MB during the 2017-2020 period. This is the oldest Toyota product after the Century, FJ40 and 70 Land Cruisers. The oldest (in age) Lexus product ever.

I do have to ask you why you now claim it is coming in 2 years rather than next year? Is there something I am missing?
 
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Gecko

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Lexus continues to redefine themselves randomly instead of top down.
You have perfectly summarized everything I (and, I think, some others) are frustrated about with Lexus... well said! We keep getting flashes of brilliance but no consistent follow through, and the overall strategy seems discombobulated and poorly conceived.

I have to wonder if Toyoda not being chairman, still has an effect on his overall power at Toyota. Takeshi Uchiyamada has blame for this all and many company setbacks.
Can you possibly elaborate on this a little more? Just curious...

Toyota for whatever reason likes to apply changes at the low-end first. A lot of the major features of the infotainment system in the early 2000s appeared first in Scions and took a few years to make it into the LS, which always seemed exactly backwards to me. I was hoping LFA was a sign that priorities were being rearranged, but we don't seem to be there yet.
To piggyback on what you've said here, historically, Lexus used to release completely redesigned models with carryover engines and then update the powertrain at a MMC refresh 2-3 years into the lifecycle. I think this was a great plan because it 1) breathed some new life into a product line that was aging and 2) spread development costs over the life of a model instead of packaging them all up front.

Lexus' powertrain lineup is so old now, that they are going to be forced to introduce new cars and new engines at the same time in LS, GS, IS and probably RC. GX as well, if it remains alive and relevant. LX too. I assume that LC could get the new turbo V8 at the refresh, but again... this is just another point where Lexus' own strategy seems to be contradictory and make little sense. We should have had turbocharged V6s and V8s a year or two ago by any historical measure of how Lexus handles model lifecycles - let alone the point about being competitive with BMW, Mercedes and others.
 
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mikeavelli

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My thing is just that, I don't understand where these pushback to 2018/"2 years from now" rumours are coming from.

They all seem to have no actual basis at the moment, being that the majority of these comments were made tongue-in-cheek or out of pessimism, prior to the recent earthquake.

At this point there are prototypes testing in Japan. I am entirely unable to buy a copy of Mag X's June edition, which has photography of some sort of the 200B programme's LS on page 12.

I believe this refers to a prototype of the new model or another useless, yet informative rendering.

Mag X and "Honto.jp" (Mag X seller) requires that you reside in a Japanese prefecture to be a member.

I am so insistent on next year, as no Japanese sources have said otherwise nor the most reputable industry sources. All I have heard regarding a 2018 release, is from lackadaisical forum comments or taken out of context Templin commentary.

I cannot understand how they will show this car in the fall of 2014 to personnel, then need another 4 more years to produce it. One still needs to account for how long this will be in production and not wanting it to become dated before mid-cycle circa 2021.

If this thing is really 2 years out, it better obliterate the S-Class V8 at the very least or I will lose respect for this brand. More 1.5 years from now, pushes it too far.

I honestly just laugh at the massive 4LS sales decline at this point, as hopefully they get the message and ensure that the current doesn't go beyond MY2017.

I have to wonder if Toyoda not being chairman, still has an effect on his overall power at Toyota. Takeshi Uchiyamada has blame for this all and many company setbacks.

Anyways, I do thank you krew, for being focused on delivering excellent and factual content, rather just jumping to be first with news.
Whats crazy to me is even with the decline of the LS, it still sells a solid third in class. This isn't a situation where it fell off the face of the earth (US Centric). So Lexus has some serious staying power and respect in this class. That said ANOTHER two years is really pushing things way beyond the limit. Lets not forget the new Panamera debuts, A8 is coming etc.

BMW went and advertised and marketed their new 7 series as THE technology king. I live in Miami, one of the car capitals of the world and I've seen maybe 5 with 3 being BMW Art Basel cars. Its a complete dud here, its all S-class and looking at sales since it debuted, it hasn't come close to the S-class and they offer a 740 6 cylinder here. So a bit worried if Lexus is going down this techy path will people really care or do they have something amazing up their sleeves (I don't think the blah 7 series styling helps either, but the tech is pretty amazing).

At this point I don't think anyone is toppling the S-class. I think Lexus took too long with the new LS. I know it will do well but with tastes shifting, more competition and Lexus own missteps I don't think the S-class has anything to worry about here. A big turn of events considering how the LS 430/LS 460 early years used to sell.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Same in Baltimore/DC. No 7 series to speak of, and when they do pop up they're last-generation. I may have to go test drive one to actually see it in person, because on paper it's pretty compelling.

Two things about the LS continuing to sell steadily: the styling still looks current until the LC500 ships, and the pricing is competitive. If you're like me and you can afford lease payments on a car in the $90s but not in the $120s, then the LS and 7 Series are your options; the S-Class may as well not exist. You can get a stripper S550 for $95 or so, but that's no safety features, no heated seats, no heated steering wheel, 18" 'screw this and get Vossen' wheels, no-name stereo, etc, etc.
 

krew

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If this thing is really 2 years out, it better obliterate the S-Class V8 at the very least or I will lose respect for this brand. More 1.5 years from now, pushes it too far.
At this point I don't think anyone is toppling the S-class. I think Lexus took too long with the new LS. I know it will do well but with tastes shifting, more competition and Lexus own missteps I don't think the S-class has anything to worry about here. A big turn of events considering how the LS 430/LS 460 early years used to sell.
Both of you are circling around my pet theory of what happened with the next-generation LS -- I think the new S-Class was so revolutionary that Lexus decided it was better to delay the new LS than try to compete with what they had. In essence, the S-Class comes out and it was back to the drawing board for the next-gen LS.

Because of that, I really do think the new LS is going to be a shocking new development, something unexpected. If you take the release of the LC as an example of how Lexus is handling the concept-to-production phase, an LS built VERY CLOSE to the LF-FC concept would be jaw-dropping, with the potential to upset the S-Class dominance.

You can get a stripper S550 for $95 or so, but that's no safety features, no heated seats, no heated steering wheel, 18" 'screw this and get Vossen' wheels, no-name stereo, etc, etc.
I swear, for a moment I thought you could lease a S550 in the USA for $95 a month.
 

Spunky D

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Does anybody think the Lf-Lc concept is extraordinarily similar in profile to a Maserati Quattroporte?!!!!
 

Carmaker1

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Well everyone, these are most certainly not spy shots of the new model yet like I hoped, but it is very much something!
2018 Lexus LS500 XF50 200B.jpg
Here is basically the new 2018 Lexus LS500 (XF50) of the Toyota 200B project (LC was 950A), from what may be a viewing of the car itself, all provided to Mag X.

This is the only accessible copy outside of Japan (jumped through many "foreigner" hoops to buy this), please be respectful when reposting elsewhere.

My Japanese is rudimentary, so I have yet to fully finish translating anything. And I said before, it still says MAY 2017! Toyota is just hiding this car.
XF40 LS 2004.jpg
I also added an August 2004 Mag X rendering of the 2007 LS460 (design was set in late 2003), which was dead accurate and also the leaked photos by Mag X (also Auto Express) from August 2005 for comparative purposes.
02.jpg 01.jpg 03.jpg
Bear in mind the car was teased in October 2005 as the LF-Sh and unveiled in a form identical to the leak shots in January 2006.

Several people dismissed that as being the 2007 ES350 or just another "lazy guess", which they were wrong in the end.
 
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Gecko

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Thank you for sharing, @Carmaker1 ! I can certainly get down with that front end.

I hope the real car has a little more curvature on the side flanks, but this is certainly promising overall.
 

James

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Thanks a lot Carmaker1 really appreciate the time I sure it took for you to find this and get it. Excited for a 2017 launch date and I agree it doesn't surprise me that they are keeping this extremely secretive. We're getting closer and closer to a new LS!
 

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Thanks @Carmaker1, love that front end. I'll bet with the grille blacked out (or carbon fiber weave) and just a chrome surround and Lexus logo it'd look *really* awesome.
 

meth.ix

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Looks very nice, but I would expect the actual LS to be longer, and the rear looks a bit like the LS. And the non-F Sport wouldn't have the spindle grille. Some chrome horizontal lines on the grille would look really grand and luxurious for an S-Class competitor. I'm surprised the front looks so well but together for a rendering. Usually, Lexus renderings are too crazy looking and don't look fit for production. This looks beautiful. And I swear, if the new LS doesn't end up looking this good or even better, Lexus is going to HAVE to hire the MagX render artist! Oh, and the 467 horsepower 5.0L V8 might be a little too much for the LS. Maybe the IS F engine would be enough as it might as well be a detuned version GS F and RC F engine to 416 horsepower!
 
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meth.ix

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@Carmaker1 the Android Google Translate App has a feature that lets you take a picture of what you want to translate, and it shows the translation right on the image! I noticed you've been trying to translate many of these Japanese rumors, so I thought this might help.
 

CIF

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Well everyone, these are most certainly not spy shots of the new model yet like I hoped, but it is very much something!
View attachment 1540
Here is basically the new 2018 Lexus LS500 (XF50) of the Toyota 200B project (LC was 950A), from what may be a viewing of the car itself, all provided to Mag X.

This is the only accessible copy outside of Japan (jumped through many "foreigner" hoops to buy this), please be respectful when reposting elsewhere.

My Japanese is rudimentary, so I have yet to fully finish translating anything. And I said before, it still says MAY 2017! Toyota is just hiding this car.
View attachment 1541
I also added an August 2004 Mag X rendering of the 2007 LS460 (design was set in late 2003), which was dead accurate and also the leaked photos by Mag X (also Auto Express) from August 2005 for comparative purposes.
View attachment 1542 View attachment 1543 View attachment 1544
Bear in mind the car was teased in October 2005 as the LF-Sh and unveiled in a form identical to the leak shots in January 2006.

Several people dismissed that as being the 2007 ES350 or just another "lazy guess", which they were wrong in the end.
Awesome, you got a hold of the Mag X copy itself, much appreciated!

So it looks like they were privy to a rendering or the real production model itself, and they made a sketch based on that. Going by their words though, "the front mask of LS revealed", I think they mostly got a look at the front end. The sides, window line, and rear quarters may be simply extrapolations and guesses at this point. That front end though looks pretty good, as long as that's an F-Sport model. It looks a bit too sporty for a base LS model.

It's confirmed now that Toyota is hiding the new LS in extreme secrecy, much to the dismay of all of us here who have discussed ad nauseum how old the current LS is, and how the almost complete lack of news regarding the new LS is really disappointing.

The May 2017 date confirmation is a great sign though! I don't care what anyone else says, whether here on TLE, or otherwise. I refuse to believe that the LS has been delayed further beyond that. If that somehow turned out as the case, then to me that would indicate Lexus has lost their way. I just can't see Lexus in that situation, so hopefully that never occurs.
 
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