2018 LS Master Thread (Debuts 1/9/17 8:30am -2017 NAIAS)

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CIF

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Just in time! After the such an agonizingly long wait, we FINALLY see a 5LS prototype out in the real world! Thanks Toyota!

Even so, it is extremely camouflaged. Not only is it using a "Frankenstein" body shell extremely similar to this one previously scooped in Japan:
15-05-28-2018-lexus-ls-test-mule.jpg


15-05-28-lexus-ls-test-mule-side-profile.jpg


It also has mismatched headlights and temporary taillights, and a layer of swirly camouflage on top of it all.

This is purely a mechanical mule being tested.

Also I laughed at Autoblog's incorrect assumption that's an ES, but not surprised. Toyota's camouflage and misdirection methods did their job by fooling Autoblog.
 
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meth.ix

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But if it was just the 4LS body with a new engine, why would they bother camouflaging it and covering up the headlights? What if it's just another mid-cycle refresh on the same body?What if we have to wait longer than 2017?!?!?!
 
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meth.ix

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Just in time! After the such an agonizingly long wait, we FINALLY see a 5LS prototype out in the real world! Thanks Toyota!

Even so, it is extremely camouflaged. Not only is it using a "Frankenstein" body shell extremely similar to this one previously scooped in Japan:
15-05-28-2018-lexus-ls-test-mule.jpg


15-05-28-lexus-ls-test-mule-side-profile.jpg


It also has mismatched headlights and temporary taillights, and a layer of swirly camouflage on top of it all.

This is purely a mechanical mule being tested.

Also I laughed at Autoblog's incorrect assumption that's an ES, but not surprised. Toyota's camouflage and misdirection methods did their job by fooling Autoblog.
But the thing is, both prototypes look extremely similar to the current 4LS when talking about body shape. The headlight and taillight spaces were also the same shape on the spy shot you just shared. The only difference is the spindle grille doesn't seems to have a separator.
 

James

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But if it was just the 4LS body with a new engine, why would they bother camouflaging it and covering up the headlights? What if it's just another mid-cycle refresh on the same body?What if we have to wait longer than 2017?!?!?!
I mean I'm sure there's always a small chance but I can't imagine them not coming with the new LS. They would literally kill the LS and honestly I can't see them doing that.
 

CIF

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But the thing is, both prototypes look extremely similar to the current 4LS when talking about body shape. The headlight and taillight spaces were also the same shape on the spy shot you just shared. The only difference is the spindle grille doesn't seems to have a separator.

Not sure what your point is? :confused:
 

Carmaker1

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I'd figure they've been running LS mules for years now in Japan. So are where are the LS verification prototype spy shots?

Japan may or may not see them first or maybe Nurbürgring ring testing this summer.

Anyway, here is some more from The Fast Lane. They are really on a roll lately and the only source to get the car right on first sight. They have video coming too.
2018-lexus-ls-prototype-front-grille.png

It’s not every day that we are able to catch a prototype that we have trouble identifying. This long, wide, and low sedan is one of those. The camouflage is thin and shows off the overall shape of the car, but the pasted-on front and rear lights are there to hide the prototype’s true identity.

Why do we think that this is the next generation 2018 Lexus LS? First, it’s the overall large size of the sedan. It appears imposing on the highway and around town. There is little doubt that this is a flagship sedan. The hood is impossibly low and the trunk has a unique shape. A closer look of the front reveals an hourglass shaped grille with a large round emblem in the center. This feature has been a signature design of Lexus for several years.

A study of the wheel design reveals a Toyota family resemblance. Finally, this prototype i closely followed by a 2016 Audi A8 4.0T and a 2016 BMW 750. In fact, the Audi and the BMW are trying to block our ability to take video and images of the prototype.

It’s no secret that the Lexus LS competes against the Audi A8 and the BMW 7 Series, among others.


When this sedan accelerated from a stop sign, we heard a distinct whistle or whine. It sounded like a turbocharger or a supercharger helping the large sedan get moving. Most LS competitors use turbocharged or supercharged engines, so it stands to reason that Lexus will want to follow suite and add forced induction to the LS engine lineup. It could be a V8 or a V6 engine. Naturally, you can also expect a hybrid and/or hybrid plug-in powertrain in the next LS as well.

We are editing the Prototype Hunting video featuring this large and low prototype. It will be available soon.

In the meantime, check out this Everything You Ever Wanted to Know look at the upcoming 2017 Lexus LC luxury sports coupe.

2018-lexus-ls-prototype-rear.png
2018-lexus-ls-prototype-wheels.png
2018-lexus-ls-prototype-hood-engine.png

http://www.tflcar.com/2016/05/is-th...ototype-caught-testing-in-the-wild-exclusive/
 

Carmaker1

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Yes, I think they test a revamped 5.0 L engine since it must be quieter than the engine of the GS F or RC F.

And maybe a revamped copy of LC platform to be appropriate to the LS diamentions.

It is very much both (GA-L and engine), but not the 2UR-GSE apparently, but a turbo engine according to a source. A video is coming.

Does not make sense to me a V8, but likely is. Does this mean the LC500 will get an old engine, while LS500 gets a new one? Why would they trademark LS500, for a turbo V8?

This car is testing with twin-turbo V8s in the Audi A8 4.0T and BMW 750i LWB, so a TTV6 GR or new unit would be a time-wasting endeavour to pit against TTV8s, when the 740i and A8 3.0T are the primary competitors for 6 cylinder models.

On another note, GA-L is not the LC platform, but a modular architecture which debuts with the LC coupe first. The LS gets its own unique version, as well as GS (2018), IS (2019), and RC (2020). It's highly scalable.
 

Carmaker1

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Just in time! After the such an agonizingly long wait, we FINALLY see a 5LS prototype out in the real world! Thanks Toyota!

Even so, it is extremely camouflaged. Not only is it using a "Frankenstein" body shell extremely similar to this one previously scooped in Japan:
15-05-28-2018-lexus-ls-test-mule.jpg


15-05-28-lexus-ls-test-mule-side-profile.jpg


It also has mismatched headlights and temporary taillights, and a layer of swirly camouflage on top of it all.

This is purely a mechanical mule being tested.

Also I laughed at Autoblog's incorrect assumption that's an ES, but not surprised. Toyota's camouflage and misdirection methods did their job by fooling Autoblog.

Luckily for Auto Blog, my comment wouldn't post. Nothing more that I hate, such gross inaccuracy. I saw it within minutes of publishing, somehow being puzzled by the "googly-eyed" ES headline.

I immediately said to myself, that the 7ES is barely due for design freeze, it is not ready to be put out there testing. Upon clicking and viewing the images, the BMW in the background instantly told me what it was and the dimensions.

It is definitely a mechanical mule testing a new Toyota company engine, reported to be a turbo by onlookers. I am confused, but is it possible there's a double entendre with XX500 nomenclature? LC500=V8 LS500=TTV8?

For it to be testing with TTV8s and sound like a turbo, I can only think birds of the same feather. Why otherwise test a V6 with TTV8s? That's like coming to a gunfight, with a Super Soaker.

Also, why are they still running around with mules? Sounds like it will be any month now, that actual cars will be spotted. I have yet to understand how long it takes for Toyota to build design-spec prototypes.

This mule is one ugly ***********!
 

Carmaker1

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Also, thanks everyone. I have always loved flagship products, as to me they represent the best of a company in a well-rounded manner.

When the W222 S-Class ended development 3 years ago, I partially focused on both BMW and Lexus.

Jaguar is rather private/professional, so naturally Lexus remains as a topic of discussion.

The Infiniti Q80 is coming, but very tightly sealed more than anything. Please do know, that it is being executed well. However, the end result is what matters.

It might prove to be a formidable Lexus competitor, if the budget is being used wisely.

I think we need to rename the site as "Lexus Enthusiast feat. @Carmaker1" after that. Great info dump!

And I'll apologize for forgetting about JLR in my earlier post - the XJ also plays in the LS/7-series price range with the V6, and goes into S-Class territory with the V8.

Well, thank you Ian, much appreciated.

Now about that V6, I really can't elaborate on future plans, but like the 740i/Li and W222 facelift w/M256 engine, the XJ will do similar unlike the current A8. Please read between the lines, will not spell it out.
 
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Gecko

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For those who think this mule is "just a 4LS" check the side by side comparison:

Look how much lower the hood is on the mule, not to mention longer. Look how much longer the decklid is as well.

It may be keeping some LS bodywork for camouflage, but this is a very different car indeed.
 

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spwolf

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The article says that the headlights are covered up by the 2IS headlights, which can be clearly seen. Maybe they were just testing out a new engine on the old LS? Probably the RC F/GS F 5.0 L V8.

no, it is new LS test...
 

Ian Schmidt

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It may be keeping some LS bodywork for camouflage, but this is a very different car indeed.

Yeah, I originally thought it was just a 4LS, but on further study it's definitely not. Very interesting. It's almost as if they were reading LE and decided to start trolling for spy shots :)
 

spwolf

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Yeah, I originally thought it was just a 4LS, but on further study it's definitely not. Very interesting. It's almost as if they were reading LE and decided to start trolling for spy shots :)

as carmaker1 keeps pointing, it is very late for them to be testing it... they should have been spotted before.

When they test only updated engine in existing vehicle, there is no test mule, nobody notices anything since there isnt any external modification.
 

spwolf

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Luckily for Auto Blog, my comment wouldn't post. Nothing more that I hate, such gross inaccuracy. I saw it within minutes of publishing, somehow being puzzled by the "googly-eyed" ES headline.

I immediately said to myself, that the 7ES is barely due for design freeze, it is not ready to be put out there testing. Upon clicking and viewing the images, the BMW in the background instantly told me what it was and the dimensions.

It is definitely a mechanical mule testing a new Toyota company engine, reported to be a turbo by onlookers. I am confused, but is it possible there's a double entendre with XX500 nomenclature? LC500=V8 LS500=TTV8?

For it to be testing with TTV8s and sound like a turbo, I can only think birds of the same feather. Why otherwise test a V6 with TTV8s? That's like coming to a gunfight, with a Super Soaker.

Also, why are they still running around with mules? Sounds like it will be any month now, that actual cars will be spotted. I have yet to understand how long it takes for Toyota to build design-spec prototypes.

This mule is one ugly ***********!

I am sure there will be multiple engines this time, with 5.0 V8 as base in NA (hopefully not in rest of the world).

As to the headlights and rear lights, seems to me that they are also trying to hide the shape and hence using old lights... concept had pretty outrageous headlights and that would be easily seen.
 

CIF

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Also, why are they still running around with mules? Sounds like it will be any month now, that actual cars will be spotted. I have yet to understand how long it takes for Toyota to build design-spec prototypes.

This mule is one ugly ***********!

Well to me it's quite clear. On top of all the delays/restarts that we have hypothesized, the LS is getting an extended testing schedule, as it should. Yes they have for sure been testing the 5LS for quite a while now, but so far publicly only with mechanical mules, not final body prototypes. On top of that, the GA-L (TNGA) RWD platform has already seen plenty of testing for the LC, with the "Frankenstein" GS mule spotted a few years back. The LS will use a different variation of GA-L, but the LC testing has also helped the 5LS project.

I'm sure Toyota also has final-body 5LS prototypes testing in their secret locations by now, but not yet in public. Looking at the timeline overall, I'm thinking that the 5LS upon debut will have undergone real-world testing for about 2.5-3 years at least (if not close to 4 years) counting purely the testing of 5LS mules and prototypes. Then if you want to be technical, you could add a further 2 years or so of testing for the LC (in parallel), contributing to overall testing of the GA-L platform. So overall that's a lot of testing for the 5LS, but this is the original Lexus flagship model, and expectations are very high. The 4GS for example was tested over 1.6 million kilometers overall. The original 1LS in comparison was tested about 2.7 million kilometers in real world conditions. I expect in total, that Toyota will have tested the 5LS easily over 2 million kilometers, if not close to 3 million kilometers like the 1LS, in real world conditions. In lab and bench conditions, millions of kilometers more of course, but what's key is real world testing.

The reason they're using this mule in public now all goes back to secrecy, as well as misdirection to the public and competitors. With an extended testing schedule, they're in no rush to start testing final body prototypes in public yet. However, this is still a great sign for us fans, because this simply means the car WILL debut sometime next year.

The one thing I'm a but surprised/worried about though, is why wasn't an S Class being tested alongside this mule? Testing against an A8 or 7 is fine, but they should be doing a ton of testing against the S Class most of all.

For those who think this mule is "just a 4LS" check the side by side comparison:

Look how much lower the hood is on the mule, not to mention longer. Look how much longer the decklid is as well.

It may be keeping some LS bodywork for camouflage, but this is a very different car indeed.

Bingo. This cleverly camouflaged Frankenstein-body mule has done its job very effectively, even if those of us with an experienced eye know this is a 5LS underneath. This has confused or fooled Autoblog, TFLCar to a small extent, and even seemingly some forum members here on TLE.

Let's not forget other small details like the awkward wheelbase, and mismatched Frankenstein fenders and quarter panels ;).

Also, some extra bit of interesting information some may not know. TFLCar's team is typically located in Colorado. From the shots they grabbed of this mule, I can tell these were taken in Colorado. So therefore, Toyota is doing high-altitude testing in Colorado currently with that mule. In fact, that one tunnel shot looks like the Eisenhower Tunnel in Colorado, which is located roughly at an elevation of 11,158 ft (3,401 m) above sea level. This is the highest point on the Interstate system in the US, and one of the highest roads in the world. That is a brutal testing altitude for any vehicle, but part of Toyota's regular testing schedule.
 
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Ian Schmidt

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The one thing I'm a but surprised/worried about though, is why wasn't an S Class being tested alongside this mule? Testing against an A8 or 7 is fine, but they should be doing a ton of testing against the S Class most of all.

As I hinted earlier, I think the S Class has priced itself up a segment. An S550 equipped to match my current LS would be about $32,000 more expensive, the difference between a GS and an LS. So heck no I'm not cross-shopping them. Unless 5LS gets a lot more expensive the direct real-world competition is the 7 Series, A8, and XJ, all of which come in at comparable prices when comparably equipped.
 

Gecko

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I have a feeling they are going to move the LS upmarket a few notches. This car seems huge from spy pics, and if you look at how the market has changed:

- There are more features and more variations on midsize cars, like 5 Series and E Class - allowing many to reach into the $70-80K range
- Flagships are generally becoming more expensive
- LC is going to be a $90k+ car, and for all intents and purposes, LS will have more equipment and features
- We have heard some rumors of 5GS moving upmarket a bit
- New competitors like Panamera, Quattroporte, Model S
- Just over the lifespan of the 4LS, the base price has increased $10,000 on the LS 460 SWB RWD.

I have a feeling we are going to see SWB LS around $78-80k, and LWB model around $85-87k. I bet you many versions of this car with options and a few packages will hit $100k and sell at that price. While the segment is declining, people are paying for cars with big power, big features and big design statements.
 
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