16th Generation Toyota Crown (Sedan, Cross, Sport, Estate/Signia)

[Ian Schmidt]

RC has a special pass because the RC-F GT3 race car shares a lot of components with the street RC (although, amusingly, it uses the RX's electric steering).

 

[Trexus]

LX and LM are not low volume, and they are very profitable.

Agreed, as the LX is based off the Landcruiser which sells tons worldwide. The LM is based off of the Alphard and Vellfire which sells plenty. The GS is based off of the Mirai and Crown which has expanded into 4 variants (tall sedan/sport/sedan/estate). The GS can be brought back since costs will be spread amongst the Crown family of vehicles...

 

[Gecko]

Agreed, as the LX is based off the Landcruiser which sells tons worldwide. The LM is based off of the Alphard and Vellfire which sells plenty. The GS is based off of the Mirai and Crown which has expanded into 4 variants (tall sedan/sport/sedan/estate). The GS can be brought back since costs will be spread amongst the Crown family of vehicles...

Unfortunately every crown model except for the (seemingly low volume) sedan is on GA-K, so I'm not sure that will be much use for a GS.

 

[Trexus]

Unfortunately every crown model except for the (seemingly low volume) sedan is on GA-K, so I'm not sure that will be much use for a GS.

Toyota/Lexus needs to expand the GA-L platform to keep our RWD vehicles. We have the Crown sedan, Mirai, LC and LS. The Century is on the old N platform and IS and RC rides on the new N platform.

 

[Ali Manai]

With Bevs on the rise using transverse motors the ga-l is an endangered species that's why toyota is experimenting with direct 4 for which the k platform is an excellent test bed

 

[Trexus]

Will pass on BEV's. I do drive HEV's for commuting purposes (don't wanna worry about range anxiety). I'll purchase a PHEV in the near future.

Bring in the next generation 4IS on a GA-L platform to expand on it which in turn Lexus can bring the 5GS back.

 

[JustADude]

Will pass on BEV's. I do drive HEV's for commuting purposes (don't wanna worry about range anxiety). I'll purchase a PHEV in the near future.

Bring in the next generation 4IS on a GA-L platform to expand on it which in turn Lexus can bring the 5GS back.

Yes yes yes

 

[Heicho]

The Crown in the GCC is equipped similar to JDM specs. Aside from the Crown logos and the front light bar, it has soft closing doors, a HUD, and a power operated trunk.

 

[Trexus]

The Crown in the GCC is equipped similar to JDM specs. Aside from the Crown logos and the front light bar, it has soft closing doors, a HUD, and a power operated trunk.

That's luxurious. Hope Toyota brings the Crown Sport, Sedan and Estate to North America and bring back a 5GS as well.

 

[JustADude]

Crown Sedan is basically a chauffeur which we don't need here with the LS. The new Crown is like a baby LS really. Although I'm all for it to come here

 

[Motor]

 

[spwolf]

The LX, LC, LM and somewhat of the RC are low volume vehicles and Lexus still sells it. Can't see why Lexus can't sell a low volume GS to certain markets. Koji Sato-san is not a bean counter. He loves cars, he's the CEO of Toyota Motor Corporation and he can make it happen...

because people did not purchase last GS, and they purchased the prior gen for maybe 2 years.

It did not work, people did not like the vehicle.

 

[Levi]

because people did not purchase last GS, and they purchased the prior gen for maybe 2 years.

It did not work, people did not like the vehicle.

What you basically said it that Lexus made a bad car, if it was good it would sell. So let Lexus make it, the good GS.

Lexus with the “good” FWD cars is struggling in Europe, to such a point that they needed a 1.5l hybrid CUV with torsion beam to increase sales, but priced at 40k, they can forget any significant sales.

 

[carguy420]

What you basically said it that Lexus made a bad car, if it was good it would sell. So let Lexus make it, the good GS.

Lexus with the “good” FWD cars is struggling in Europe, to such a point that they needed a 1.5l hybrid CUV with torsion beam to increase sales, but priced at 40k, they can forget any significant sales.

I still find it hard to accept that Lexus made something like the LBX, the price is kinda high for what it is, yet the powertrain and chassis doesn't seem to match its price tag. I don't know if it's just me, but when I first viewed the LBX from the side, it reminded me of the Mazda CX-3, especially the shape of the side windows.

 

[spwolf]

What you basically said it that Lexus made a bad car, if it was good it would sell. So let Lexus make it, the good GS.

Lexus with the “good” FWD cars is struggling in Europe, to such a point that they needed a 1.5l hybrid CUV with torsion beam to increase sales, but priced at 40k, they can forget any significant sales.

What I am saying, Lexus can not make a good GS that can sell.

As to the Europe, Lexus has record sales there right now.

 

[ssun30]

What you basically said it that Lexus made a bad car, if it was good it would sell. So let Lexus make it, the good GS.

Lexus with the “good” FWD cars is struggling in Europe, to such a point that they needed a 1.5l hybrid CUV with torsion beam to increase sales, but priced at 40k, they can forget any significant sales.

Every attempt to make a "good RWD sedan" by any car maker other than Mercedes and BMW have failed in the past decade. Ironically the only success story is the second facelift of Lexus IS which many wouldn't call a "good RWD sedan".

Having a good RWD platform to make successful SUVs is a different story.

 

[Levi]

What makes cars sell are halo/top range models M/AMG/RS. Since Mercedes/BMW are now all AWD, and surpasses Audi Quattro which was their USP, and they have not reinvented themselves, their sales have fallen far behind BMW and Mercrdes, even their sales in China are gone. Hyundai with their N cars are consistent, until Genesis does not get the same treatment, they’ll be no better than Audi and Lexus. In the current car (non-SUV) market there is little demand, so one product has to appeal to the largest possible audience without being so compromised that it appeals to non when the time comes to signing that check. A GS won’t sell, I don’t disagree. But will a Crown (RWD) sell any better? That is the question.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

What I am saying, Lexus can not make a good GS that can sell.

This is major cope.

The S140 to S190 GS were excellent sellers. The GS was consistently at third place, selling more or less 60% of what BMW and Mercedes-Benz would sell in a year. You may think selling ~60% of what BMW and Mercedes-Benz is actually dismal, but given that 5-Series and E-Class have a stalwart buyer base, the GS did well to create a niche for a RWD Japanese luxury sedan. The L10 also did similarly well in its first few years of production, however Lexus almost never advertised the GS and dealers would keep pushing buyers towards the ES for greater profits. That isn't the problem of the GS, rather Lexus' gravitas to actually bring the fight to the Germans.

I remember writing a very long post about this a few years ago, it's as if Lexus hates to compete with others, or they have this humiliation fetish by always bringing some sort of excuse as to why they cannot compete with the Europeans. They can do it, they simply don't want to.

You want to see what BAD sales look like? Well may I point you to the Audi A6. The GS was selling more the double the amount that the A6 would sell in the 2000's. The A6 finally surpassed the GS in sales in 2016, coincidentally the same time that Lexus released that god-awful facelift and brought nothing new to the table since. No wonder it sold poorly, it's because the maker couldn't even care to give it the life it deserved. It was already the best handler in the entire segment tied with the Cadillac CTS, and even with the Cadillac's relatively weak sales they developed the CT5 as its successor.

Every attempt to make a "good RWD sedan" by any car maker other than Mercedes and BMW have failed in the past decade. Ironically the only success story is the second facelift of Lexus IS which many wouldn't call a "good RWD sedan".

Having a good RWD platform to make successful SUVs is a different story.

This is also major cope and patently false. What is this revisionism that I'm seeing lately? 🤣🤣

Lexus excelled in comparison tests with the IS and GS back in the day. Heck, even the ES was highly lauded against its RWD competition as well. Lexus was always regarded well especially when you take into account the continuous updates that Lexus would give its sedans (see first generation IS, second generation IS F), but largely gave up for the third generation. How in the absolute hell were the first two generations of the IS (and even the third generation IS at the beginning) a fail? Same can apply for the GS and LS.

And if many wouldn't call it a "good RWD sedan" like you say, it's because Lexus never bothered making meaningful updates like giving it new powertrains, transmissions, a new driveline, or a more modernized interior (I still think the current interior is fine). However even today the IS is still lauded for great steering, handling, and has a playful character with organic feel. What brings it down are engines from ~20 years ago and transmission tuning from the stone age.

It's about the effort you put in, and Lexus plainly doesn't give a damn. With that said, the IS itself is still extremely popular and sells really well. Imagine if Lexus actually put more effort into their RWD sedans/coupes. Will it beat the Germans? Probably not. But it will be an easy third place in sales like the GS and IS of yore were and could take easily a fifth in market share in each respective segment, which is huge.

Mazda went upmarket with a great RWD architecture and their sales are stronger as a result. People realize this and Lexus buyers can discern if its a proper car or not.

Regardless, what the both of you are saying is major cope, and is not backed by facts/data, and the reason why Lexus is failing with their RWD products is because they just don't care. Every Lexus needs the LC treatment with attention to detail and ensuring they have the best kit possible.

 

[carguy420]

This is major cope.

The S140 to S190 GS were excellent sellers. The GS was consistently at third place, selling more or less 60% of what BMW and Mercedes-Benz would sell in a year. You may think selling ~60% of what BMW and Mercedes-Benz is actually dismal, but given that 5-Series and E-Class have a stalwart buyer base, the GS did well to create a niche for a RWD Japanese luxury sedan. The L10 also did similarly well in its first few years of production, however Lexus almost never advertised the GS and dealers would keep pushing buyers towards the ES for greater profits. That isn't the problem of the GS, rather Lexus' gravitas to actually bring the fight to the Germans.

I remember writing a very long post about this a few years ago, it's as if Lexus hates to compete with others, or they have this humiliation fetish by always bringing some sort of excuse as to why they cannot compete with the Europeans. They can do it, they simply don't want to.

You want to see what BAD sales look like? Well may I point you to the Audi A6. The GS was selling more the double the amount that the A6 would sell in the 2000's. The A6 finally surpassed the GS in sales in 2016, coincidentally the same time that Lexus released that god-awful facelift and brought nothing new to the table since. No wonder it sold poorly, it's because the maker couldn't even care to give it the life it deserved. It was already the best handler in the entire segment tied with the Cadillac CTS, and even with the Cadillac's relatively weak sales they developed the CT5 as its successor.


This is also major cope and patently false. What is this revisionism that I'm seeing lately? 🤣🤣

Lexus excelled in comparison tests with the IS and GS back in the day. Heck, even the ES was highly lauded against its RWD competition as well. Lexus was always regarded well especially when you take into account the continuous updates that Lexus would give its sedans (see first generation IS, second generation IS F), but largely gave up for the third generation. How in the absolute hell were the first two generations of the IS (and even the third generation IS at the beginning) a fail? Same can apply for the GS and LS.

And if many wouldn't call it a "good RWD sedan" like you say, it's because Lexus never bothered making meaningful updates like giving it new powertrains, transmissions, a new driveline, or a more modernized interior (I still think the current interior is fine). However even today the IS is still lauded for great steering, handling, and has a playful character with organic feel. What brings it down are engines from ~20 years ago and transmission tuning from the stone age.

It's about the effort you put in, and Lexus plainly doesn't give a damn. With that said, the IS itself is still extremely popular and sells really well. Imagine if Lexus actually put more effort into their RWD sedans/coupes. Will it beat the Germans? Probably not. But it will be an easy third place in sales like the GS and IS of yore were and could take easily a fifth in market share in each respective segment, which is huge.

Mazda went upmarket with a great RWD architecture and their sales are stronger as a result. People realize this and Lexus buyers can discern if its a proper car or not.

Regardless, what the both of you are saying is major cope, and is not backed by facts/data, and the reason why Lexus is failing with their RWD products is because they just don't care. Every Lexus needs the LC treatment with attention to detail and ensuring they have the best kit possible.

Lexus being so vague with their future plans and even sort of turning back on that group of really stunning looking cars they showed to the public that look almost production ready is certainly not helping matters, no amount of crying emojis can describe my levels of sadness😭.

 

[Ali Manai]