16th Generation Toyota Crown (Sedan, Cross, Sport, Estate/Signia)

What do you think it is?

  • Lexus GS

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • Toyota Crown

    Votes: 32 80.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Total voters
    40

CRSKTN

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Comprehension these days really seems to be at an all time low. 😑

kind​

noun\ ˈkīnd \
: a specific or recognized variety// What kind of car do you drive?


The Japanese Crown is Toyota's mid-size"top end" luxury sedan of KIND, which invalidates your nonsensical diatribe.

Ok


Alternatively, as Masato Tanabe, chief engineer of the Century program, told me during a meeting at the Toyota Automobile Museum in Nagoya, "There is kind of a clear division between the Lexus brand and the Century brand. Lexus is [the] owner [operated] car top-level of the brand. however, Century is the TMC's [Toyota Motor Corporation] top brand of chauffeur cars."
 
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ssun30

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If we don't count the 1964 Crown Eight, which is the predecessor to the 1967 Century, the closest Crown ever got to flagship status was in 1995. Towards the end of the Bubble Era, Toyota got into an arms race with Nissan for building the most prestigious flagship sedan. The S140 was a humiliating failure compared to the full unibody/4-wheel independent suspension Y31/Y32 Cedric platform. Therefore they went all out during the S150 generation and it was essentially a slightly smaller Celsior (LS 400) but with significantly more tech features, including the very advanced i-Four AWD system (it was only introduced to Lexus in mid 2000s). It was placed above the S140 Aristo V8 (Gen.1 GS didn't get a V8). However by 1995 Japan's economy was firmly going downwards and later Crown Majestas never got close to the status of the Celsior/LS and often received tech upgrades later than the LS.

What's also interesting is the real non-Century flagship in Toyota's lineup was the Soarer/SC 400. In Japan the top trim was priced at JPY 7.7M or equivalent to USD 152,000 in 2022. The JPY 8M Century is a customized LWB limousine model, and most trims were actually priced below the Celsior. This shouldn't be a surprise since the Century was approaching 30 years of production at this time and it has fallen far behind every luxury car on the market. But the 1997 Century V12 firmly regained its flagship status and maintained it all the way till its discontinuation in 2017.

The 1997 Century V12 was also the first domestically produced car priced above JPY 10M. Before it the most expensive Japanese car was the NSX-R super car priced just below JPY 10M.
corwn.png
* Prices are in 1995 JPY, 1995 USD and 2022 USD. These are some crazy expensive luxury cars for their time! It's hard to imagine a $100k GS/$130k LS/$150k LC today.
 

spwolf

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Also to note, due to new platform and economies of scale, new Crown is around 30% cheaper compared to old one.

That will make it significantly more competitive worldwide, where old was priced way too close to Lexus, but still did not have same interior quality.

Top interior quality for Toyota is nowhere close to top interior quality for Lexus. I have driven many european Land Cruisers, including 200 V8 with top equipment, that was >$100k vehicle locally ($140k now), and its interior was not up to par with base Lexus, let alone anything more expensive. We had problems with peeling leather after a year, squeaky plastics that are easy to damage, etc, etc. Prado of that era had wood panels in dash that would fall off because glue would wear off. This is all within warranty while people would still come back to us (I was a TMME dealer in Eastern Europe for 10 years).

Yes of course, where it matter they were built tough, and sure owners had a lot less problems with them than GL, Touareg, Q7 and other crosshopped vehicles. They also had high used prices as well, despite us having to replace most of the V8 diesels.

So to me this looks way more as proper Toyota, where it is premium and not luxury, but also noticably better than Camry/Rav4 and then Avalon/Highlander. For instance this is going to be in price of Highlander (new Highlander will probably share its powertrains worldwide), and everything about it is a clear and marked step up.

So forget about Lexus, compared to current high end Toyota's in USA, this is a step up.

Unfortunately due to its size, this is not coming to Europe. Hopefully Sport or SUV gets there, as they would be way better competition to VW than Highlander.
 

Ali Manai

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As far as people saying that the sedan may be called majesta could be true
-It's longer than previous crown and majesta
-It has vertical grill just like the past majesta
 

spwolf

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As far as people saying that the sedan may be called majesta could be true
-It's longer than previous crown and majesta
-It has vertical grill just like the past majesta

another thing is that Toyota said that sedan will be for chauffer's, I dont think Majesta was for chauffer's, it was more premium Crown? So it might be pretty different with emhasis on rear space. And this will make it also suitable for Chinese market.

I doubt it will be sold anywhere else but in China and Japan, plus maybe some east asian countries where Crown was sold before.
 

Ali Manai

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Akio toyoda said all the models of crown lineup will be sold in 40 countries so the US might also get the sedan, sport and the wagon now we wait and see whether they do release them globally
 

Gecko

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Akio toyoda said all the models of crown lineup will be sold in 40 countries so the US might also get the sedan, sport and the wagon now we wait and see whether they do release them globally

Still a lot of details to come, but if the Crown sedan comes here, is RWD and comes with a decent powertrain, I'm buying one -- no questions asked.
 

maiaramdan

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another thing is that Toyota said that sedan will be for chauffer's, I dont think Majesta was for chauffer's, it was more premium Crown? So it might be pretty different with emhasis on rear space. And this will make it also suitable for Chinese market.

I doubt it will be sold anywhere else but in China and Japan, plus maybe some east asian countries where Crown was sold before.
Mid. East, Eastern Europe and maybe Russia after the war. this is nearly confirmed as plus markets from the same guy was first to told me about the hybrid TT 3.5
 

spwolf

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Akio toyoda said all the models of crown lineup will be sold in 40 countries so the US might also get the sedan, sport and the wagon now we wait and see whether they do release them globally

i am not so sure that every country will get every vehicle, sedans particularly are a tough sell in many markets. But it should be a really nice seller in China.
 

mediumhot

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I wouldn't count on North America and EU as markets for all Crown models. As a matter of fact there is a great chance western Europe won't get any of the models shown here.
 

Levi

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Still a lot of details to come, but if the Crown sedan comes here, is RWD and comes with a decent powertrain, I'm buying one -- no questions asked.
I wouldn't count on North America and EU as markets for all Crown models. As a matter of fact there is a great chance western Europe won't get any of the models shown here.


Officially Toyota/Lexus won't say it, but they know Lexus buyers cross-shop with Toyota, if there is reason to do so. At the end of the day, all money goes to TMC, so if their is no GS (and new platform IS), but there is an equivalent from Toyota, they know those customers can come back for the Crown Sedan.


And no way the the Crown Sports it not coming to Europe, the car looks like made for Europe.
 

Sulu

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Akio toyoda said all the models of crown lineup will be sold in 40 countries so the US might also get the sedan, sport and the wagon now we wait and see whether they do release them globally

Here have a link hiding in Toyota Japan HP.... it reveal dimension of other 3 type of 16th Gen. Crown and have some designer&engineer interview. Thank for @shizhi discover and telling me this hiding website.
SPORT L:4710mm W:1880mm H:1560mm with 2770mm wheelbase.
ESTATE L:4930mm W:1880mm H:1560mm with 2850mm wheelbase.
SEDAN L:5030mm W:1890mm H:1470mm with 3000mm wheelbase.

the SPORT one are bigger than NX/RAV4/Harrier in all dimension but still smaller than new RX
the ESTATE one just little bit longer than new RX on length, but shorter than RX, a little narrower than RX.
the SEDAN are much wider than last gen Crown and 2nd gen Mirai, it seem also bigger than GS?
all these 3 type official said will coming next year(another page at toyotime.jp said will in the next year and a half)


View attachment 6124


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The Crown Sport and Crown Estate, being that they look like crossover SUVs, will probably sell well in North America but the Crown name is unknown in North America.

The Sport is between the size of the RAV4 and the Highlander, and the Estate is about the size of the Highlander but lower. I wonder, though, if the Estate would sell better if it is named Venza, since it is about the size of the first-generation Venza and would be a better replacement, in my opinion, than the current Harrier/Venza.

The Crown Sedan, however, will not sell in North America. Mid- or full-size sedans no longer sell in North America; I believe that RWD sedans will sell even less than FWD sedans.

I don't know how many Crown Crossovers will sell in North America. It has some crossover styling cues, which may make it attractive, but it looks like (and marketed as) a sedan, which could mean it won't sell; and it has an unfamiliar name. If it was named the familiar Avalon, it may be more attractive.

The Sport and Estate will probably sell around the world. The Crossover and the Sedan are probably too large for Europe, but will probably sell in China.
 

larryren

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The Crown Sport and Crown Estate, being that they look like crossover SUVs, will probably sell well in North America but the Crown name is unknown in North America.

The Sport is between the size of the RAV4 and the Highlander, and the Estate is about the size of the Highlander but lower. I wonder, though, if the Estate would sell better if it is named Venza, since it is about the size of the first-generation Venza and would be a better replacement, in my opinion, than the current Harrier/Venza.

The Crown Sedan, however, will not sell in North America. Mid- or full-size sedans no longer sell in North America; I believe that RWD sedans will sell even less than FWD sedans.

I don't know how many Crown Crossovers will sell in North America. It has some crossover styling cues, which may make it attractive, but it looks like (and marketed as) a sedan, which could mean it won't sell; and it has an unfamiliar name. If it was named the familiar Avalon, it may be more attractive.

The Sport and Estate will probably sell around the world. The Crossover and the Sedan are probably too large for Europe, but will probably sell in China.
It only know FAW-Totoya has been ready for Crossover one. others still unknown. Sedan type is seem close to E-Class or BMW 5 series? IMO I think it ok for Europe market.
 

Ali Manai

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Initially only sedan and crossover were developed sport and estate were added later on
 

spwolf

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It only know FAW-Totoya has been ready for Crossover one. others still unknown. Sedan type is seem close to E-Class or BMW 5 series? IMO I think it ok for Europe market.

not in Europe. It will never be competitive in Europe, which is why they have ES and Camry there now, just to have something.
European E size sedans are price sensitive and Toyota will not be able to sell Crown at Lexus pricing here.

But I assume, in some markets, Estate and Sport will replace Venza and Highlander, otherwise it makes no sense.
Highlander is priced as luxury suv in Europe, and obviously it is not... Crown SUV has a chance since interior is a lot more luxuriou.
 

mediumhot

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not in Europe. It will never be competitive in Europe, which is why they have ES and Camry there now, just to have something.
European E size sedans are price sensitive and Toyota will not be able to sell Crown at Lexus pricing here.

But I assume, in some markets, Estate and Sport will replace Venza and Highlander, otherwise it makes no sense.
Highlander is priced as luxury suv in Europe, and obviously it is not... Crown SUV has a chance since interior is a lot more luxuriou.

Yeah but no way they can price Yellow Crown at Highlander pricing over there. Wasn't ES supposed to alleviate GS's unaffordable pricing and yet they priced the ES exactly the same as outgoing GS?
 

spwolf

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Yeah but no way they can price Yellow Crown at Highlander pricing over there. Wasn't ES supposed to alleviate GS's unaffordable pricing and yet they priced the ES exactly the same as outgoing GS?

somewhat, I mean ES is selling better than GS ever did. But it is dwindling market in Europe, and long term they will never compete to add more vehicles.

Whatever they price the Crown SUV at, it will be better choice than Highlander for Toyota. Europeans are not the same market as USA/China, Crown SUV/CUV have a good chance to sell something.

For instance, Aygo, Yaris, Yaris Cross, Corolla hatch/wagon, etc, all those European centric vehicles got more premium and more expensive gen over gen, and TMC now has largest market share in history in Europe.
 
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Still a lot of details to come, but if the Crown sedan comes here, is RWD and comes with a decent powertrain, I'm buying one -- no questions asked.

And if that doesn't come, there is a perfect incentive to have this as the next ES or the next GS.