16th Generation Toyota Crown (Sedan, Cross, Sport, Estate/Signia)

[spwolf]

And if that doesn't come, there is a perfect incentive to have this as the next ES or the next GS.

well, it would be ES based on powertrains introduced in RX500h, not RWD based.

I dont see any benefit to ES buyer for ES to move to GA-L and everything else that entails (loss of space, much higher price, etc).
But ES with new AWD options and 367hp powertrain? It will be good.

Guess what though, it will be perfect vehicle for PR, but then everyone else will get base 4cl hybrid with newer version of e-four, which is good but nowhere close to ES500h.

 

[LarryT]

Also to note, due to new platform and economies of scale, new Crown is around 30% cheaper compared to old one.

That will make it significantly more competitive worldwide, where old was priced way too close to Lexus, but still did not have same interior quality.


So to me this looks way more as proper Toyota, where it is premium and not luxury, but also noticably better than Camry/Rav4 and then Avalon/Highlander. For instance this is going to be in price of Highlander (new Highlander will probably share its powertrains worldwide), and everything about it is a clear and marked step up.

The only problem is that the current Avalon (5th Gen) actually has a more quality interior with much "better" materials throughout than the upcoming U.S. Crown that's replacing it.

 

[Ali Manai]

The only problem is that the current Avalon (5th Gen) actually has a more quality interior with much "better" materials throughout than the upcoming U.S. Crown that's replacing it.

Saw jdm walkaround which seems to have a much better quality than the usdm

 

[spwolf]

The only problem is that the current Avalon (5th Gen) actually has a more quality interior with much "better" materials throughout than the upcoming U.S. Crown that's replacing it.

i dont see that at all.

 

[Ali Manai]

i dont see that at all.

Just look at the padding around the center console but since they are prototypes final version might be better as those on display in japan are actually close to the final ones

 

[NXracer]

The only problem is that the current Avalon (5th Gen) actually has a more quality interior with much "better" materials throughout than the upcoming U.S. Crown that's replacing it.

How did you ascertain this exactly? Like any specific points on the interior?

 

[Sulu]

How did you ascertain this exactly? Like any specific points on the interior?

Toyota North America's all-black dashboards give off a terribly low-rent, cheap plastic vibe. A little colour would help a lot.

 

[LarryT]

How did you ascertain this exactly? Like any specific points on the interior?

Take a look at the 2022 Avalon Limited interior. One can clearly see that some of the Avalon Limited interior materials/details are a cut above the U.S. version Crown Platinum, such as: genuine wood/brushed aluminum trim, Premium quilted leather mid door panels & a partial Premium leather dash with stitching, etc.

 

[LarryT]

Toyota North America's all-black dashboards give off a terribly low-rent, cheap plastic vibe. A little colour would help a lot.

True, especially since the upcoming U.S. variant Crown is supposedly Toyota's top premium sedan now.

 

[Ali Manai]

True, especially since the upcoming U.S. variant Crown is supposedly Toyota's top premium sedan now.

Yeah the jdm rs advanced top model has a bit of yellow but mostly it's black which feels to generic

 

[spwolf]

Take a look at the 2022 Avalon Limited interior. One can clearly see that some of the Avalon Limited interior materials/details are a cut above the U.S. version Crown Platinum, such as: genuine wood/brushed aluminum trim, Premium quilted leather mid door panels & a partial Premium leather dash with stitching, etc.

there is no difference in materials in US and JDM versions of Crown Cross, both are made in Japan. What you are noticing is difference in earlier hand built model and newer JDM, plus JDM gets more options and they presented it with different interior colors.

For me, all the USDM versions add is lipstick on underlaying thing that is built cheap. Like Sienna, there are likely going to be problems with actual build quality vs first impression. But hey, there is quilted stiching and lots of silver/gloss black finishes, it must be good.

If you look at Crown Cross in Japan, that has nicer color options, it is just built to higher standard. Check the trunk - it actually has finished top of the trunk interior (not just door, but also trunk), which most Germans dont have anymore, let alone Avalon or other Toyotas.

 

[Ali Manai]

Yeah merc c and e class also use a lot of plastic on bottom of doors etc

 

[Ali Manai]

Also toyota should have used e4 andvanced system in both 2.5 and 2.4 turbo not just the turbo that direct 4 es with 2.5l engine made combined 300hp and the crown should have had that system to make it a bit more distinct from the camry

 

[LarryT]

there is no difference in materials in US and JDM versions of Crown Cross, both are made in Japan. What you are noticing is difference in earlier hand built model and newer JDM, plus JDM gets more options and they presented it with different interior colors.

For me, all the USDM versions add is lipstick on underlaying thing that is built cheap. Like Sienna, there are likely going to be problems with actual build quality vs first impression. But hey, there is quilted stiching and lots of silver/gloss black finishes, it must be good.

If you look at Crown Cross in Japan, that has nicer color options, it is just built to higher standard. Check the trunk - it actually has finished top of the trunk interior (not just door, but also trunk), which most Germans dont have anymore, let alone Avalon or other Toyotas.

What you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with the 5th Gen Avalon distinctly having better quality interior materials than the U.S. Crown variant that is replacing the Avalon.

 

[ssun30]

This is from Toyota JP spec sheet. It seems Toyota is intentionally differentiating Toyota and Lexus. The 2.4T hybrid system in the Crown is called "E-Four Advanced" to indicate it's a middle-ground between E-Four and Direct4. Direct4 will probably be a Lexus exclusive, good news for Lexus buyers.

The difference? The Crown's rear eAxle is detuned from 80kW to 59kW. It is the same 1YM unit used by bZ4X and RX500h just less powerful (torque remains the same). Toyota doesn't show the battery voltage but I suspect the battery is downsized as well.

Also I was wrong about two things in my original RX500h analysis: 1) the front motor is not identical to the rear, it's less powerful but has considerably more torque (61kW/292N.m). In fact, this motor is much more powerful than the 36kW/250N.m unit in the iForce Max and is potentially a future upgrade. The iForce Max would increase from 325kW(437hp)/790N.m(583lb.ft) to 350kW(469hp)/890N.m(656lb.ft). 2) The 6AT is not 8AT with 1st and 8th removed. It still has a 1st gear with a 14.89:1 overall reduction ratio. It just has really wide gear spread.

The 2.4T hybrid system is 150kg/330lbs heavier than the 2.5 hybrid with E-Four. The NX350h is 30kg heavier than the NX350. So the total added weight of 500h vs. 350 (2.4T) is ~180kg/400lbs.

By comparison the last-gen RX450h vs. RX350 is 160kg heavier. Crown 3.5 multi-stage vs. 2.5 hybrid is 130kg heavier.

The interior cabin length is 1980mm. That's 35mm longer than the ES, same as the S220 Crown, 40mm longer than the GS, 70mm shorter than the LS. The packaging is quite efficient.

The ground clearance is only 145mm (5.7 inch), exactly the same as ES and Camry. This is not even a "raised sedan" many suspected. It only looks raised because of the plastic cladding.


I also compared the full equipment list vs. S220 and I did not find features and equipment to be inferior to the S220. So at least on paper it's not a downgrade. But I agree the interior design looks cheap in full black. The S220 interior doesn't feel the same way.

 

[Ali Manai]

The stereo system is sort of downgraded as well as a lack of 3 zone climate control

 

[ssun30]

The stereo system is sort of downgraded as well as a lack of 3 zone climate control

3-zone climate control is available on the top trim. The rear center arm-rest has a control panel for it.


The stereo system is indeed a downgrade. The base is 6-speaker while top is 10-speaker. S220 has optional 16-speaker system similar to Mark Levinson.

 

[JustADude]

This is from Toyota JP spec sheet. It seems Toyota is intentionally differentiating Toyota and Lexus. The 2.4T hybrid system in the Crown is called "E-Four Advanced" to indicate it's a middle-ground between E-Four and Direct4. Direct4 will probably be a Lexus exclusive, good news for Lexus buyers.

The difference? The Crown's rear eAxle is detuned from 80kW to 59kW. It is the same 1YM unit used by bZ4X and RX500h just less powerful (torque remains the same). Toyota doesn't show the battery voltage but I suspect the battery is downsized as well.

Also I was wrong about two things in my original RX500h analysis: 1) the front motor is not identical to the rear, it's less powerful but has considerably more torque (61kW/292N.m). In fact, this motor is much more powerful than the 36kW/250N.m unit in the iForce Max and is potentially a future upgrade. The iForce Max would increase from 325kW(437hp)/790N.m(583lb.ft) to 350kW(469hp)/890N.m(656lb.ft). 2) The 6AT is not 8AT with 1st and 8th removed. It still has a 1st gear with a 14.89:1 overall reduction ratio. It just has really wide gear spread.

The 469hp 656lbft is exactly the numbers what I think the LX hybrid will have. Even a rumor last year said the LX hybrid will have 480hp 642lbft which is close.

 

[Ali Manai]

3-zone climate control is available on the top trim. The rear center arm-rest has a control panel for it.
View attachment 6159

The stereo system is indeed a downgrade. The base is 6-speaker while top is 10-speaker. S220 has optional 16-speaker system similar to Mark Levinson.

The 3 base grades of s220 had 6 speaker while all the other grades had 10 speaker system and the g, rs advance and g executive grades had an optional 16 speaker system.
235 has 6 speakers as standard and an optional 10 speaker system on rs advance although if you look at used crowns not many people bothered to opt for 16 speaker setup it was pretty rare

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

well, it would be ES based on powertrains introduced in RX500h, not RWD based.

I dont see any benefit to ES buyer for ES to move to GA-L and everything else that entails (loss of space, much higher price, etc).
But ES with new AWD options and 367hp powertrain? It will be good.

Guess what though, it will be perfect vehicle for PR, but then everyone else will get base 4cl hybrid with newer version of e-four, which is good but nowhere close to ES500h.

yawn

GS >

ES is great and all, but the GS is just amazing.