The Future of the IS Thread

[Sulu]

This is so well-written and accurate it hurts. Especially that last paragraph, just wow! I have touched on this before, but it's great to see someone else point it out.

(Hey everyone I haven't logged in because I've been very busy)

@Carmaker1, regarding that last paragraph, I probably first saw it in one of your posts.

 

[Gecko]

Let me get this straight.

• The 2UR-GSE has been around since 2014 in the RC F
• People have been complaining about the lack of an IS F since this generation debuted in 2013, and Lexus has never cared to respond
• The world is crazy for SUVs and passenger car sales continue to struggle

... and ya'll believe that 7 years later, Lexus is going to refresh this 14 year old platform and stuff this 6 year old V8 under the hood, not call it an F car, and sell it in fewer than 5 markets around the world, when there is no "IS 500" trademark?

Do you realize how crazy this is?


Are ya'll............. ok?

 

[CRSKTN]

TBH I viewed any possibility as "we made too many of these and didn't sell nearly as many of the cars that used them as we expected".

 

[internalaudit]

Yay or nay?

2021 Lexus IS Sedan Preview: What We Know About the New One

The new entry Lexus IS sedan was planned to show up at the since-postponed New York auto show; look for an independent reveal sometime this summer instead.

www.motortrend.com

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Yay or nay?

2021 Lexus IS Sedan Preview: What We Know About the New One

The new entry Lexus IS sedan was planned to show up at the since-postponed New York auto show; look for an independent reveal sometime this summer instead.

www.motortrend.com

Sounds very feasible and realistic.

 

[internalaudit]

It doesn't dispute any of the insider information. This is technically more than a refresh and who cares about the use of the N platform if suspension and other tuning are improved.

Too bad the article mentions the use of the same engines but at least they're all now mated to the eight-speed auto and doesn't look antiquated. Hopefully this results in much improved fuel economy and slightly better acceleration.

 

[CRSKTN]

Yay or nay?

2021 Lexus IS Sedan Preview: What We Know About the New One

The new entry Lexus IS sedan was planned to show up at the since-postponed New York auto show; look for an independent reveal sometime this summer instead.

www.motortrend.com

with the new IS being the first Lexus product developed at Toyota's new Shimoyama facility, a Nürburgring-like R&D center in the mountains outside Toyota City, Japan.

Could help explain how little we see of this stuff.

 

[Gecko]

Seems realistic to me as well. I love the IS and love to drive ours, so it seems to me like Lexus is going to build upon the car's existing strengths with a few modernizing tweaks, which also just so happens to be very cost effective.

The platform still feels great to me, so the news of a carryover platform doesn't bother me. The only sore spot here IMO is the engines - we need a new ~280hp ~35mpg turbo 4, and a 380-400hp turbo 6 just to remain in the same ballpark as Audi, BMW and Mercedes. While all of this is great for Lexus fans and IS loyalists... I ask myself many more of those exist in this market. Buying a sedan is increasingly becoming a lifestyle statement, or done by those who truly enjoy driving, so the models that remain are fighting for a smaller portion of buyers, and the lack of engine updates is going to be a big problem, IMO, both for power and MPG.

I also worry that this is the coming end of the IS as we know it, and Lexus is likely winding down the program. We've seen them make similar moves with other models where they do just enough to make it passable, then ultimately terminate it. So many years later, plenty of new engines and new RWD platforms, and the IS gets none of that? Not a good sign. I posted a lot of this earlier in this thread and was told by someone at Lexus that the company now sees the IS as a niche model and not worthy of significant investment.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Also, Toyota has considerable influence in Japan. Most spy shots of Toyota or Lexus vehicles I can recall are from when they're testing in the US (the self-driving LS, most recently) or in some cases on the Ring.

 

[Levi]

It is a huge problem not to have TTV6. Kia Stinger GT sells with the TTV6, facelifted Genesis G70 is also coming with probably the upgraded 3.5 TTV6 instead of 3.3 TTV6. Nissan's TTV6 will also find place in all RWD other models, mainly the Z400.

 

[internalaudit]

Hopefully this thread and/or other discussions can convince Lexus to upgrade the engine options on the 3.3IS to make it more competitive.

 

[ssun30]

We are hearing as much rumors of the IS as the GS in 2017/2018. Does anyone honestly believe one is even coming?

I'm so tired of all the speculations and fearful of it being DOA (let's face it, switch to GA-N and with DF engines and it will still struggle with sales just from the lack of momentum alone) that I wish there was no new IS in the traditional sense and they just start from clean sheet and build a BEV to match TM3.

 

[internalaudit]

That would be something I truly want. Then offer a raised version with a hatchback to create a Y competitor.

 

[Gecko]

It is a huge problem not to have TTV6. Kia Stinger GT sells with the TTV6, facelifted Genesis G70 is also coming with probably the upgraded 3.5 TTV6 instead of 3.3 TTV6. Nissan's TTV6 will also find place in all RWD other models, mainly the Z400.

Sadly, Lexus probably looks at this and realizes that a refreshed IS would outsell the Koreans combined just because of brand recognition, and is OK with that as an exercise in minimal effort. Q50 is rapidly becoming as irrelevant as Infiniti - not that Lexus is doing much better. Their 400hp engine has not done anything to buoy sales.

A refresh of a 7 year old car is 100% proof of thought saying, "Let's see what we can get out of this with minimal effort and investment." There is no real strategy or "be best in class" play happening at Lexus anymore from what we have seen.

 

[internalaudit]

Besides Will1991, Ssun and myself, anyone else truly interested in a TMX/TMY BEV competitor from Lexus? It does have an un-utilized E-TNGA (Lexus equivalent) platform for its BEV offerings.

Toyota introduces their e-TNGA platform | electrive.com

www.electrive.com

 

[CRSKTN]

Besides Will1991, Ssun and myself, anyone else truly interested in a TMX/TMY BEV competitor from Lexus? It does have an un-utilized E-TNGA (Lexus equivalent) platform for its BEV offerings.

Toyota introduces their e-TNGA platform | electrive.com

www.electrive.com

I'm getting the feeling we went from a more ICE focused transition to a quicker move to BEVs.

Cancel IS full overhaul for a large refresh, kill the GS, make it bigger, move it up market, keep using a modified N platform, and jump straight to E-TNGA for next gen model and make the IS (Innovative Sedan) true to its name by being the first full BEV Lexus sedan?

Would be a differentiation from the ES' refined ICE corporate luxury car role.

 

[internalaudit]

I'm getting the feeling we went from a more ICE focused transition to a quicker move to BEVs.

Cancel IS full overhaul for a large refresh, kill the GS, make it bigger, move it up market, keep using a modified N platform, and jump straight to E-TNGA for next gen model and make the IS (Innovative Sedan) true to its name by being the first full BEV Lexus sedan?

Would be a differentiation from the ES' refined ICE corporate luxury car role.

I sure hope so. Only a fool will not have noticed how briskly the Model 3 is selling but then there are people like us who want quality and reliability in BEVs even if it means just 4 to 6 seconds 0-100 km/h acceleration, a 250 mile winter driving range and TSS+/LSS+ instead of the Auto Pilot misnomer.

 

[CRSKTN]

I sure hope so. Only a fool will not have noticed how briskly the Model 3 is selling but then there are people like us who want quality and reliability in BEVs even if it means just 4 to 6 seconds 0-100 km/h acceleration, a 250 mile winter driving range and TSS+/LSS+ instead of the misnomer Auto Pilot.

Considering how Tesla's promises stack up, I don't consider their vehicles to be what they're presented as anyways.

Look at the new Porsche EVs, they blow away their paper stats, blow away Tesla for quality and service network/parts availability, and overall capacity for performance driving. Once those cheaper down market models become available, who would ever opt for a Tesla after sitting in and driving an EV macan or other at a comparable price point? It's not like Model 3s are cheap without the subsidies.

Every single thing i've seen Tesla lauded as being a leader in, is something that has ultimately proved to be a corner that other manufacturers didn't cut to achieve those specs, because they're experienced enough to realize you pay for it down the road.

I've never thought "how does Tesla accelerate like that?!", the thought that always crossed my mind was "Why aren't others choosing to do this? What is this really going to cost me down the road to push the system like this?"

I wouldn't buy a pre-owned Tesla to save my life, honestly. The moment you get a BMW 3 series or Lexus IS or C class BEV with comparable tech/options, Tesla is going to realize what they had and what they squandered. Now with the Musk blow up threatening to leave California (threatening is code for "please god negotiate with us"), he's gone full insane. He doesn't realize that California is like the economic and mindshare bedrock backstopping their place in the market.

 

[suxeL]

A refresh or a redesign we shall see when they launch the model. Either way i doubt these will sell in any numbers over what they already do. A Tesla model 3 competitor is not realistic at this point in time, as the buyers in that market are basically blinded by unique tech that Lexus has no plans of launching anytime soon on the IS.

 

[internalaudit]

What tech are you referring to? Ludicrous mode and the 30 minute restful state in between to get the battery / power spooled up?

Enhanced Auto Pilot that cannot detect a barricade and that will not see L5 in a decade?

Battery that is developed and owned by Panasonic?


i only see the SCN going for Tesla and I have no need for that 99% of the time and might as well rent a car for the long drives at most once a year.


The only ones blinded by Tesla vehicles (besides those who are captivated by the brand but don't understand the cons like my daughter and her peers) are those who come from less sporty vehicles (and think the TM3 is a sports car), want to save a lot on fuel (well, who wouldn't except the piston heads who have a money tree in the backyard), and those who don't know how an above average sedan or SUV should handle. I think Tesla management's hubris is so prominent that will not care to reverse engineer the Taycan or the e-trons to see what makes they drive better.