Toyota C-HR (New, Cheaper LE/XLE Trims Added for 2019)

[Gecko]

I saw these on sale in Paris. I like the look! I would prefer this over a Prius.

https://goo.gl/photos/T2f2FUKajbefNR228

Looks sharp in that pic! Thanks for sharing!

 

[mikeavelli]

RS-R has already completed aftermarket suspension options!!

 

[Gecko]

Smashes up pretty well... testament to TNGA? Also cool to see some of the TSS features in play:

 

[Tragic Bronson]

The US/North American press drives have happened, pending the embargo, here is one preview:

 

[mmcartalk]

Thanks for posting.

Why is there an embargo on full-reviews? That's nonsense. He (or Toyota) should have at least explained why. Although I don't always support the auto press and how they operate, somethimes they take too much crap, and put up with too many restrictions, from the automakers.

Anyhow, I see he was in Austin for the review. The Texas Hill Country, which starts on the western side of the city, is a very nice place for a test-drive....it has some picturesque roads and scenery. (I temporarily lived in Austin a long time ago, and still remember the area well).

(Mike, I assume you've been there on some of your cross-country drives)?

I agree with most of his conclusions, though the most serious drawback, IMO, is the lack of an American-market AWD option. That is simply unacceptable on a multipurpose small crossover SUV. Toyota is probably going to lose a lot of American-market sales to Honda, Mazda, and Jeep on that issue....... (one of my close-neighbors, for instance, just came home recently with a new AWD Honda HR-V, and another is looking at the Jeep Renegade). It will also be competing with Ford's upcoming EcoSport. Headroom, of course, can also be an issue with a roof that low....which is probably why they don't offer a sunroof (the bottom of the roof-housing would be almost scraping the top of the steering wheel LOL). I personally think it is too radically-styled...but that's just a subjective opinion my part, not necessarily fact.

 

[spwolf]

Thanks for posting.

Why is there an embargo on full-reviews? That's nonsense. He (or Toyota) should have at least explained why.

embargo on review date is due to manufacturers wanting to align reviews closer to release date so they would not take away sales from existing vehicles, before it goes on sale... otherwise you would always be waiting for something new to come.

It happens with every car and even every product when reviewed before going on sale.

 

[mmcartalk]

embargo on review date is due to manufacturers wanting to align reviews closer to release date so they would not take away sales from existing vehicles, before it goes on sale... otherwise you would always be waiting for something new to come.

I'm not sure one can say that. A lot of buyers pick up end-of-model-year or end-of-generation vehicles simply because they don't care for the upcoming replacements. Others, of course, simply take advantage of end-of-year sales incentives. Not everyone, of course, but a surprising number.

 

[Gecko]

I'm a little too lazy to post the entire press release this morning, but...

2.0L 4cyl, 144hp/139lb-ft of torque
CVT
FWD
27/31/29 combined
Priced from $23,460 including destination?

This thing is a lot more expensive than the HR-V and doesn't get as good of MPG.

What did I miss, Toyota?

 

[ydooby]

I'm a little too lazy to post the entire press release this morning, but...

2.0L 4cyl, 144hp/139lb-ft of torque
CVT
FWD
27/31/29 combined
Priced from $23,460 including destination?

This thing is a lot more expensive than the HR-V and doesn't get as good of MPG.

What did I miss, Toyota?

You missed:
1. The C-HR comes standard with TSS-P full-range dynamic cruise control and lane departure alert with steering assist. On the HR-V it's not even an option.
2. The C-HR comes standard with super cool-looking 18" wheels vs. your average 17" wheels on the HR-V.
3. The C-HR's got double-wishbone rear suspensions vs. weak torsion-beams on the HR-V. The C-HR handles much better.
4. The C-HR has a bigger 2.0L engine, which means better torque of 139lb-ft@3,900rpm than 127lb-ft@4,300rpm the HR-V's 1.8L produces.
5. The C-HR has 10 airbags vs. the HR-V's 6.
6. Standard CVT on the C-HR means higher cost than the standard manual transmission on the HR-V.
7. Much sharper body creases on the C-HR means much cooler looks but also means higher production costs.

In short, the C-HR is positioned as a premium car whereas the HR-V is meant to be a cheap econobox.

 

[mmcartalk]

You missed:
1. The C-HR comes standard with TSS-P full-range dynamic cruise control and lane departure alert with steering assist. On the HR-V it's not even an option.
2. The C-HR comes standard with super cool-looking 18" wheels vs. your average 17" wheels on the HR-V.
3. The C-HR's got double-wishbone rear suspensions vs. weak torsion-beams on the HR-V. The C-HR handles much better.
4. The C-HR has a bigger 2.0L engine, which means better torque of 139lb-ft@3,900rpm than 127lb-ft@4,300rpm the HR-V's 1.8L produces.
5. The C-HR has 10 airbags vs. the HR-V's 6.
6. Standard CVT on the C-HR means higher cost than the standard manual transmission on the HR-V.
7. Much sharper body creases on the C-HR means much cooler looks but also means higher production costs.

In short, the C-HR is positioned as a premium car whereas the HR-V is meant to be a cheap econobox.

That's all fine and good. But, IMO, the C-HR's lack of AWD in the American market is likely to be a big handicap. That alone (even independent of the styling) is probably going to end up sending a lot of potential customers down the street to the Honda, Mazda, Chevy, or Jeep store and their available AWD competition (and Ford, of course, will also have competition in the fall when the EcoSport is released)

I don't quite understand Toyota's thinking by not including AWD in the American versions. Perhaps management felt it might cut into sales of the extremely popular RAV-4?

 

[ydooby]

That's all fine and good. But, IMO, the C-HR's lack of AWD in the American market is likely to be a big handicap. That alone (even independent of the styling) is probably going to end up sending a lot of potential customers down the street to the Honda, Mazda, or Jeep store and their available AWD competition.

I don't quite understand Toyota's thinking by not including AWD in the American versions. Perhaps management felt it might cut into sales of the extremely popular RAV-4?

I was giving reasons for the C-HR's higher starting price, but yeah you're absolutely right on the other end. Toyota/Lexus has a long history of not giving models that could've had an AWD option an AWD option, in an apparent attempt to avoid cutting into the sales of their higher-end models. The IS350 immediately comes to mind, where Lexus resisted giving it AWD for years and later even went as far as detuning the 3.5L V6 of the IS350 before finally giving it the AWD option. Such fear of sales cannibalization is ungrounded and only serves to gift the competition what could've been their sales.:thumbsdown:

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Such fear of sales cannibalization is ungrounded and only serves to gift the competition what could've been their sales.:thumbsdown:

As Steve Jobs said, you should cannibalize yourself before your competitors do.

 

[mmcartalk]

As Steve Jobs said, you should cannibalize yourself before your competitors do.

Do a good enough job to start with, though, and that decreases your chances of getting cannibalized by others. Apple products sell because they are good, even at the somewhat higher-than-average prices they cost. So is Apple's customer service.

 

[Brooks2IS]

That's all fine and good. But, IMO, the C-HR's lack of AWD in the American market is likely to be a big handicap. That alone (even independent of the styling) is probably going to end up sending a lot of potential customers down the street to the Honda, Mazda, Chevy, or Jeep store and their available AWD competition (and Ford, of course, will also have competition in the fall when the EcoSport is released)

I don't quite understand Toyota's thinking by not including AWD in the American versions. Perhaps management felt it might cut into sales of the extremely popular RAV-4?

I've been under the impression that the lack of AWD is due to the CH-R's initial purpose as a Scion branded vehicle. One powertrain, few options. I have a feeling that AWD, leather, navigation, etc will eventually become available.

 

[CIF]

Yeah, I have a feeling most of the C-HR's problems are due it being a confused product with an awkward development. Was a Scion...then not. Apparently changed to a TNGA platform mid-development.

Also I don't think it competes directly with the HR-V, despite what some may say. This is more premium than the HR-V. The C-HR is rather unique in that it uses a compact platform, not a subcompact platform. This makes it more premium than any other competitor in the segment. The HR-V for example uses the same subcompact platform as the Honda Fit. Also in terms of dimensions, The C-HR is noticeably larger than its competitors. Then there are things like having an acoustic windshield, SACHS dampers and soft touch materials all around. Pricing though I agree is awkward, especially with the lack of AWD.

While stylistically the C-HR is not my cup of tea, nor do I have much interest in the subcompact CUV segment, the C-HR is without a doubt a very premium product for the segment. I think this bodes well for other Toyota crossover redesigns going into the future.

 

[mmcartalk]

Yeah, I have a feeling most of the C-HR's problems are due it being a confused product with an awkward development. Was a Scion...then not. Apparently changed to a TNGA platform mid-development.

Possibly. It's an interesting idea. You might be on to something.

Also I don't think it competes directly with the HR-V, despite what some may say.

The C-HR is rather unique in that it uses a compact platform, not a subcompact platform.

The HR-V for example uses the same subcompact platform as the Honda Fit. Also in terms of dimensions, The C-HR is noticeably larger than its competitors.

If the C-HR was that much larger than its competitors, it would be bumping into its own RAV-4 brother. Toyota is usually very careful about having two different vehicles competing in the same segment, like what happened with Nissan's Rogue vs. Rogue Select and Jeep's Patriot vs. Compass.

 

[CIF]

Size-wise the C-HR is in between the CX-3/HR-V/etc and the RAV4/CR-V/etc. It's bigger than any competitor in the subcompact CUV segment, but smaller than a compact CUV. So it's in a unique position size-wise, but is still noticeably smaller than a Rav4, and does not compete with the Rav4 for a number of reasons.

 

[mikeavelli]

When does this future grand slam hit dealers?

 

[Gecko]

When does this future grand slam hit dealers?

April 4, I think.

 

[IS-SV]

Saw one today (owner operated) as I left Office Depot parking lot in SJ. Had a dealer installed roof rack.