ssun30

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Because of Coronavirus supply strain and V-shaped recovery in demand, LM price is soaring. In my area the 7-seat now sells for ¥1.85M (700k mark-up). Still no news on when 4-seat version is available. I guess these should be well over 2.5M now.

The Alphard and Vellfire are hitting record sales figure each month, now comfortably over 2k.
 

Rydo

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Because of Coronavirus supply strain and V-shaped recovery in demand, LM price is soaring. In my area the 7-seat now sells for ¥1.85M (700k mark-up). Still no news on when 4-seat version is available. I guess these should be well over 2.5M now.

The Alphard and Vellfire are hitting record sales figure each month, now comfortably over 2k.

Sounds like I will never be able to afford one then. Simply unbelievable to think how much they can be selling it for considering how awful it is on paper.
 

CRSKTN

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Sounds like I will never be able to afford one then. Simply unbelievable to think how much they can be selling it for considering how awful it is on paper.

Like I said, when you're in a fake market economy that has been completely economically manipulated through centralized government action, and huge levels of corruption and self-dealing, little to no respect for IP law (or human rights), this is what you end up with. A billion desperate poor, with a handful of people who have more than they know what to do with, and all the parasites who appeal to them for their drop of blood.
 

spwolf

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Like I said, when you're in a fake market economy that has been completely economically manipulated through centralized government action, and huge levels of corruption and self-dealing, little to no respect for IP law (or human rights), this is what you end up with. A billion desperate poor, with a handful of people who have more than they know what to do with, and all the parasites who appeal to them for their drop of blood.

there is a billion of desperately poor in China? This is not true.
 

CRSKTN

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there is a billion of desperately poor in China? This is not true.

I would waste a bunch of my time explaining the gaps, large scale wrongdoing, regulatory non existence, and extremely poor application of workplace safety regulations, but given the fact you can't trust chinas reported stats on just about anything not third party independently verifiable (by design), there's no point. Combine that with mass propaganda and misinformation out of the CCP internal to the country, and you have yourself people who will seemingly work themselves to death relative to other places, but then turn around and say "b b b but our middle class!".

Its literally bread and circuses because they know that people will go to any lengths to convince themselves things aren't as bad as they seem (see US journalism actively normalizing extreme acts by their current administration). All you have to do is make it seem like things are incrementally improving, even with no evidence, with just a cover of plausible deniability and people will rush to the defense of their jailers.

See: Stockholm Syndrome.
 

shizhi

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I would waste a bunch of my time explaining the gaps, large scale wrongdoing, regulatory non existence, and extremely poor application of workplace safety regulations, but given the fact you can't trust chinas reported stats on just about anything not third party independently verifiable (by design), there's no point. Combine that with mass propaganda and misinformation out of the CCP internal to the country, and you have yourself people who will seemingly work themselves to death relative to other places, but then turn around and say "b b b but our middle class!".

Its literally bread and circuses because they know that people will go to any lengths to convince themselves things aren't as bad as they seem (see US journalism actively normalizing extreme acts by their current administration). All you have to do is make it seem like things are incrementally improving, even with no evidence, with just a cover of plausible deniability and people will rush to the defense of their jailers.

See: Stockholm Syndrome.
As a Chinese, I am obviously moved by the conclusion that there is no investigation. The authors of these articles did not even come to China for field investigation. They spread rumors in the English media based on their past impressions of China and their long-standing prejudice against communist countries.
If China still has a huge number of poor people, how do you explain the huge profits made by luxury car brands such as BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi and Lexus in China? Similarly, the long-term existence of a large number of poor people will also lead to the decline of social security, which is obviously worse in the United States than China.
I try my best to avoid talking about China in English forums. The main reason is that too many Westerners force their imagination on China, which is a kind of arrogance and prejudice. If you really want to understand China, then when covid-19 becomes the past, I hope you can come to China to see what real China is like.
 

shizhi

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there is a billion of desperately poor in China? This is not true.
You're right. China plans to eradicate poverty in an all-round way this year (standard: per capita annual income is more than 4000 yuan). Of course, I know that some Westerners think this is a fraud.
Many staff members selected by the Chinese government to work in poverty-stricken areas are aimed at eradicating poverty. This is a political task (political task in China means that it must be completed without compromise). Many people are also willing to do this work, because once it is completed, as a reward, the position will be promoted faster.
Of course, China's average income is still very low.(annual per capita income is 30000 yuan) The Chinese Premier disclosed this year that "there are still 600 million people in China, and the average monthly income is only 1000 yuan" (equivalent to 12000 yuan per year).
 
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CRSKTN

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You're right. China plans to eradicate poverty in an all-round way this year (standard: per capita annual income is more than 4000 yuan). Of course, I know that some Westerners think this is a fraud.
Many staff members selected by the Chinese government to work in poverty-stricken areas are aimed at eradicating poverty. This is a political task (political task in China means that it must be completed without compromise). Many people are also willing to do this work, because once it is completed, as a reward, the position will be promoted faster.


Do you think the genocide of the Uighur muslims is a foreign hoax, too?

Jesus christ. I've met enough mainlanders who dont believe in Tiananmen square even after seeing the videos and photos.

I work in global capital markets. All I care about is the reality of what's going on. I didnt even tell you where I was from and you started down the "everyone just hates China for no reason" road.

They pay for it the same way everything gets paid for, unsustainable debt (just like the US, with less transparent markets) propped up by a central government that actively manipulates their economy and debt markets.

You want to act informed about China? Ask why they shifted from global equity investments against core infra around the world and instead shifted to providing impossible to repay financing against foreign assets (see assets in Nigeria, or at the port of Mombasa in Kenya), so they can come in and say "this is ours you didnt pay", and hijack critical infrastructure. It's like giving payday loans to desperate people.

I've literally seen the walled areas they build for exclusive Chinese labor flown in, because they dont want locals to learn how to do anything for themselves.

Absolutely horrific. You couldn't pay me to step foot in a Chinese airport. Anyone who had any connection to any meaningful org should consider their stuff compromised as soon as they hit airport wifi.
 
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shizhi

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Do you think the genocide of the Uighur muslims is a foreign hoax, too?

Jesus christ. I've met enough mainlanders who dont believe in Tiananmen square even after seeing the videos and photos.

I work in global capital markets. All I care about is the reality of what's going on. I didnt even tell you where I was from and you started down the "everyone just hates China for no reason" road.

They pay for it the same way everything gets paid for, unsustainable debt propped up by a central government that actively manipulates their economy and debt markets.

You want to act informed about China? Ask why they shifted from global equity investments against core infra around the world and instead shifted to providing impossible to repay financing against foreign assets (see assets in Nigeria, or at the port of Mombasa in Kenya), so they can come in and say "this is ours you didnt pay", and hijack critical infrastructure. It's like giving payday loans to desperate people.

I've literally seen the walled areas they build for exclusive Chinese labor flown in, because they dont want locals to learn how to do anything for themselves.

Absolutely horrific. You couldn't pay me to step foot in a Chinese airport. Anyone who had any connection to any meaningful org should consider their stuff compromised as soon as they hit airport wifi.
Please remember that what you see is also what the western media let you see. There is no essential difference between you and me. The pride and prejudice of Westerners have been revealed between your lines. How do you know that the information you get from the English website is accurate? What better understand China than the Chinese who live in China?
Westerners always think that they are angels. However, from the beginning of modern society, the actors of colonial plunder are all European. And you are a coward hiding behind the Internet, even China's land is not dare to step in.
Even where does this fear come from? Why does this fear not make those multinational brands give up the Chinese market? Tesla has built a factory in Shanghai and Toyota has expanded its production capacity in China. Aren't those multinational companies worried that socialist China would one day nationalize all its assets?

So I can say that the vast majority of Westerners see China as biased. Fear made them afraid to come to China and further achieved the effect achieved by Western media. Just like the North Korean media, they told citizens about the tragic side of the United States, but concealed the bright part. So I don't totally believe in the official statement of China and the western media. Lived in China, I can get the truth by myself if i want,instead of being confused by the authenticity on the Internet.
 
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shizhi

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"Everyone is the same" is what bad actors say to deflect analysis and criticism of their action.

If we're the same, why can I post this:

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

and you can't? How's your social credit score doing with that red flag on your account?

Go outside and criticize your government, and then come back and let me know how that goes.

I'm not European. I'm not white. I'm not whatever scarecrow you need to build.

And also nice job not answering about the Uighur genocide.

The entire world is watching what's going on in HK. It's over. You've destroyed your public image, and your foreign support. Your supply chains are viewed as unreliable at best, and literally part of my job is working with enormous corporations to rip the spine out of their supply chains and repatriate it to other countries, for the sake of risk mitigation as well as ESG reasons.

Your government showed their true selves too early, kickstarted an economic exodus from your nation and triggered policy isolation, and now before you've expanded your military to be able to actually seize the assets backing the 1 trillion+ you've loaned out (by the way, you are never, ever, ever getting that money back), you're facing a stalling economy, ruined public image, restricted access to take part in the developed world economy, and now I promise you that you're going to see the "West" as you put it, dump tons of money into areas like southwest asia and africa to replace you.

Not only that, once those countries (who by the way were also the ones who took your governments money and can't/won't repay it) start to become more closely linked with "western" supply chains, they'll have even less reason to recognize or respect those payday loans they got out of desperation.

I'm done with this discussion. You can either fight for your freedom, or fight to stay blind and beholden. I've already lost too many people in my family to fascistic dictatorships and armies of mindless, brainwashed drones. I'm not going to sit here and waste any more time trying to convince you of reality when you can get disappeared for saying the wrong thing about someone.

Light reading: https://home.kpmg/cn/en/home/insigh...orting-fraud-in-china-outlook-and-trends.html
A nice basis that can get you into the story of how millions of pensioners had their life savings stolen through fraudulent financials in Chinese startups, often signed off by Chinese "franchises" of well respected global accounting firms, which were basically just fronts for the CCP to defraud the global capital markets.

Not a new problem either: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richar...s-china-problem-comes-to-a-head/#307b1b3f13c9
I've seen these things you gave me ten years ago, and most Chinese have seen them. Remember, no one will think that your stupid propaganda is the truth. No one cares about what you say above. Remember, the Chinese only care about one thing to make money.

Most Westerners like to get information from those Chinese website against the Chinese government, but the Chinese are obviously not interested in it. They used to like these websites because they could get free VPN services, and Chinese people often use these services to watch pornographic information on overseas websites.🤣

In fact, it's meaningless to discuss these things. I knew from the beginning how you get information. You even think that most Chinese people have never read this information. In fact, these behaviors have exposed your ignorance.

My one or two words will certainly not dispel your worries about China, and I don't want to simply change your view.

Back to the theme, you should think more about why Lexus is selling this speical model for the Chinese market.Even BMW is planning to produce the X5 in China.

The west is always exaggerating the "China Threat Theory", but when the capital can gain benefits in China, the money still runs to China honestly.

Chinese people are happy to share their lives on the Internet. Tiktok's China Version, 抖音, you can see the real Chinese life through this app, of course, you'd better use a device without private information, because you think these app are stealing your information.
 
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CRSKTN

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I've seen these things you gave me ten years ago, and most Chinese have seen them. Remember, no one will think that your stupid propaganda is the truth. No one cares about what you say above. Remember, the Chinese only care about one thing to make money.

Most Westerners like to get information from those Chinese website against the Chinese government, but the Chinese are obviously not interested in it. They used to like these websites because they could get free VPN services, and Chinese people often use these services to watch pornographic information on overseas websites.🤣

In fact, it's meaningless to discuss these things. I knew from the beginning how you get information. You even think that most Chinese people have never read this information. In fact, these behaviors have exposed your ignorance.

My one or two words will certainly not dispel your worries about China, and I don't want to simply change your view.

Back to the theme, you should think more about why Lexus is selling this speical model for the Chinese market.Even BMW is planning to produce the X5 in China.

The west is always exaggerating the "China Threat Theory", but when the capital can gain benefits in China, the money still runs to China honestly.

Chinese people are happy to share their lives on the Internet. Tiktok's China Version, 抖音, you can see the real Chinese life through this app, of course, you'd better use a device without private information, because you think these app are stealing your information.


There it is. You just proved my point.

The only nations in that area worth respecting are Taiwan and Hong Kong and the people of China themselves. That power structure is corrupt.
 
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shizhi

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There it is. You just proved my point.

The only nations in that area worth respecting are Taiwan and Hong Kong.
You also let me deepen my understanding of Westerners, stupid frog in the well. He has never been to China, but he talks about China, his sense of superiority in his bones, and his serious prejudice against ideology.
 

shizhi

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ssun30

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We won't be world's largest auto market if a billion of us are desparately poor 🤣

Anyway, this thread is about the LM minivan. Let's not get political discussions onto a car forum. Please note that our internet traffic is monitored so reading and posting comments like these might get us into trouble, even though we know some of them are the truth. @shizhi it's also in your best interest to not keep the argument.

Also remember, propaganda goes both ways.

lol let me know when the "west" has to publish a book telling people how to act like human beings abroad.

Please keep this obnoxious racism to yourself. Racism has no place on this forum.
 

shizhi

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Because you converted your workforce to slave labor for us. That's literally it. You were the lowest bidder because you threw away all safety and environmental regulations.


You support that? Or you just don't believe the images?

"Chinese only care about money" he says


Those people were heroes. They fought for freedom, democracy, and a chance at a real life. You've failed them.
Your freedom makes four million people infect with covid-19. Let the United States in 2020, still I can't breathe?
A man who has escape away for a hundred is laughing at the man with fifty steps?
Remember that no government will give you complete freedom, and the United States will allow you to carry out socialist revolution?
All crows under the sun are black,there is no difference between the US government and the Chinese government.
 

shizhi

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We won't be world's largest auto market if a billion of us are desparately poor 🤣

Anyway, this thread is about the LM minivan. Let's not get political discussions onto a car forum. Please note that our internet traffic is monitored so reading and posting comments like these might get us into trouble, even though we know some of them are the truth. @shizhi it's also in your best interest to not keep the argument.

Also remember, propaganda goes both ways.



Please keep this obnoxious racism to yourself. Racism has no place on this forum.
真当我们没看过一样…啊,真的不想扯了,总结起来其实就是一句话:天下乌鸦一般黑…😂
我就觉得莫名其妙,这都能扯到中国有数十亿人被吸血…这脑回路有点厉害…不过去油管看视频下评论,这种西方人其实也不在少数,无所谓吧,反正中必输…😜
 

ssun30

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Please understand that we are not here to conduct any propaganda work for our government because...why would we? Heck, we didn't even start this whole political talk nor did we want to. And the person on the other side just goes down the racism route. I didn't expect it to escalate that quickly.

I have my personal political beliefs and I spent most of my higher education in the west so I know a lot of "things". I also live in the U.S. a quarter of the time before this pandemic. But I do not share any of that (except maybe that policy analysis thread) because I don't think this is the place to do so. I do not want this confrontation just like I don't want to see a Trump supporter talking trash about black or Latino members on this forum.
 

CRSKTN

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Your freedom makes four million people infect with covid-19. Let the United States in 2020, still I can't breathe?
A man who has escape away for a hundred is laughing at the man with fifty steps?
Remember that no government will give you complete freedom, and the United States will allow you to carry out socialist revolution?
All crows under the sun are black,there is no difference between the US government and the Chinese government.

Not from the US sorry.

For the record, I f**** love Chinese people, and I absolutely despise government and enablers. I lump them in with the far right, and trump enablers.

Sorry I am done, just wanted to clear the air. I wouldn't know half of what I do if it wasn't for some smart, generous Chinese person slowly explaining it to me like I am a child.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Anyway, this thread is about the LM minivan. Let's not get political discussions onto a car forum. Please note that our internet traffic is monitored so reading and posting comments like these might get us into trouble, even though we know some of them are the truth...

I have my personal political beliefs and I spent most of my higher education in the west so I know a lot of "things". (b)ut I do not share any of that (except maybe that policy analysis thread) because I don't think this is the place to do so.
@CRSKTN : Yes, please! You've already made your feelings amply felt. This thread is for discussing the Lexus LM minivan, NOT Chinese vs U.S. politics.

Racism has no place on this forum.
Absolutely!
 

CRSKTN

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We won't be world's largest auto market if a billion of us are desparately poor 🤣

Anyway, this thread is about the LM minivan. Let's not get political discussions onto a car forum. Please note that our internet traffic is monitored so reading and posting comments like these might get us into trouble, even though we know some of them are the truth. @shizhi it's also in your best interest to not keep the argument.

Also remember, propaganda goes both ways.



Please keep this obnoxious racism to yourself. Racism has no place on this forum.


Americans are desperately poor, and they are the largest economy on earth.

I am literally arguing for equality, and freedom from terrible governments. The US government literally toppled my country's government. I cant explain to you what stories I have extracted about what they did to people in my family.

Anyways this is LE, not a forum to argue other stuff, so I am choosing to leave and cool down.

Mods, wipe if you want, no more from me.
 
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