spwolf

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A Google translation of a MagX article says that the 2nd-generation of the Lexus LM minivan (and, presumably, its 4th-gen Alphard and 3rd-gen Vellfire Toyota-badged counterparts) will debut for 2023 (unclear if that's calendar or model year) and 2LM will, for the first time, be offered in Japan as well.
that makes sense.

btw, what is the main scoop on that magx, Toyota vehicle that is on front page?
 

shizhi

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A Google translation of a MagX article says that the 2nd-generation of the Lexus LM minivan (and, presumably, its 4th-gen Alphard and 3rd-gen Vellfire Toyota-badged counterparts) will debut for 2023 (unclear if that's calendar or model year) and 2LM will, for the first time, be offered in Japan as well.
The current LM has not opened a gap with Alaphard, especially the 7-seat version; and the price of Alaphard in Japan is not high, which may be the reason why LM is not sold in Japan now.
The next-generation LM should be different from Alaphard in interior design, rather than simply decorating an Alaphard with some elements of Lexus ...
otherwise such a 7-seat version of Alaphard with only the appearance of Lexus is difficult to be called a luxury car ...
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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btw, what is the main scoop on that magx, Toyota vehicle that is on front page?
Excellent question. I'm not really sure. Perhaps a Yaris Cross rendering that turned out to be quite a bit off?
 

ssun30

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We all know the current generation LM is a stop-gap solution to address immediate needs in China and SEA. Dealerships were rioting demanding a vehicle like this, same to how Lexus rushed out a half-baked RX-L under pressure from american dealers. Next-gen should be properly designed as a Lexus.
 

Rydo

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Part of me loves the new LM and part of me does see the obvious badge-engineering in it. Regardless, with the prices that they are commanding in China and the fact that China is not remotely a market that the UK imports from - unlike Japan where dozens of import agents exist - I don't think that me owning an LM is a realistic prospect.

Now, if they launch it in Japan with only a reasonable markup, plus the fact that RHD is far more desirable for myself living in the UK, then I see could myself importing one at some point. The road presence of this thing would be unreal, especially given the tiny market here for passenger vans/minivans.
 

ssun30

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So apparently, the MY2020 ChDM LM/Alphard/Vellfire hybrid system is detuned. The 2AR-FXE engine now ONLY makes 86kW (115hp) at 4700rpm and 198N.m (146lb.ft) at 2800-4000rpm. The motors and battery are the same as NX300h. The combined system output is now only 120kW (161hp). The top speed is also reduced from 180km/h (112mph) to 152km/h (94mph)
3976

This detuned 2.5L 2AR-FXE is probably the lowest specific output gasoline engine ever made since 1990, lower than low-revving truck engines (maybe some American big-block V8s are lower). In fact its output is similar to the 2.2L 22R-E introduced in 1982. If I have to guess this detuning is to comply to the new China-VI emissions regulations. But for some reason the NX keeps the original 114kW ICE/145kW combined rating. The curb weight of LM300h is 2280kg (5030lbs) so that's 0.053 kW/kg or (0.032 hp/lb), barely beating the Yaris 1.0.

And remember this: the most expensive car Lexus sells in the world, at USD 205,000, has 161hp. It is more expensive than the 473hp RC-F TE, and will be more expensive than the 650+hp LC-F (if there is any). It also has a lower top speed than a 1.0L Yaris. And the only cars with lower power-to-weight ratio in Toyota's entire lineup are the African market J70/J150/Hilux with 1HZ and 5L diesel engines built since 1990.

How did no one notice this? And how did no chinese media journalist realize "wait that doesn't sound right"?

Yes, I understand power isn't everything for a car. But this is downright rip-off.
 
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Rydo

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So apparently, the MY2020 ChDM LM/Alphard/Vellfire hybrid system is detuned. The 2AR-FXE engine now ONLY makes 86kW (115hp) at 4700rpm and 198N.m (146lb.ft) at 2800-4000rpm. The motors and battery are the same as NX300h. The combined system output is now only 120kW (161hp). The top speed is also reduced from 180km/h (112mph) to 152km/h (94mph)
View attachment 3976

This detuned 2.5L 2AR-FXE is probably the lowest specific output gasoline engine ever made since 1990, lower than low-revving truck engines (maybe some American big-block V8s are lower). In fact its output is similar to the 2.2L 22R-E introduced in 1982. If I have to guess this detuning is to comply to the new China-VI emissions regulations. But for some reason the NX keeps the original 114kW ICE/145kW combined rating.

And remember this: the most expensive car Lexus sells in the world, at USD 205,000, has 161hp. It is more expensive than the 473hp RC-F TE, and will be more expensive than the 650+hp LC-F (if there is any). It also has a lower top speed than a 1.0L Yaris. And the only cars with lower power-to-weight ratio in Toyota's entire lineup are the African market J70/J150/Hilux with 1HZ and 5L diesel engines built since 1990.

How did no one notice this? And how did no chinese media journalist realize "wait that doesn't sound right"?

Yes, I understand power isn't everything for a car. But this is downright rip-off.
A very interesting point. I thought that the vehicle was available with a non-hybrid Powertrain too? How does that compare?
 

ssun30

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A very interesting point. I thought that the vehicle was available with a non-hybrid Powertrain too? How does that compare?
There is supposed to be a LM350 for markets out of China. But now we are not seeing any.

The JDM Alphard also comes with an embarrassingly underpowered 2.5L 2AR-FE. It's that super boring engine used on the Camry from 2009 until 2017.

It would be super interesting to see this car tested on a continuous gradient and see what happens when the battery runs out. Then 115hp propelling a 2.3t car up a hill (those African market trucks at least have a low range!). I guess the billionaire owners will just hire some poor people to push it 🤣
 
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mikeavelli

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The new 2021 Sienna is superb. Makes me wonder what a Lexus version could be.
 

mikeavelli

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I’m just seeing it now. It’s not a very nice vehicle plus the proportions are not as grand as the LM. It’s more of a mid-size thing like the Estima.
It’s over 200 inches long.
 
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