The Lexus LM Minivan Megathread

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spwolf

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Joaquin Ruhi said:
A Google translation of a MagX article says that the 2nd-generation of the Lexus LM minivan (and, presumably, its 4th-gen Alphard and 3rd-gen Vellfire Toyota-badged counterparts) will debut for 2023 (unclear if that's calendar or model year) and 2LM will, for the first time, be offered in Japan as well.
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that makes sense.

btw, what is the main scoop on that magx, Toyota vehicle that is on front page?
 
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shizhi

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Joaquin Ruhi said:
A Google translation of a MagX article says that the 2nd-generation of the Lexus LM minivan (and, presumably, its 4th-gen Alphard and 3rd-gen Vellfire Toyota-badged counterparts) will debut for 2023 (unclear if that's calendar or model year) and 2LM will, for the first time, be offered in Japan as well.
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The current LM has not opened a gap with Alaphard, especially the 7-seat version; and the price of Alaphard in Japan is not high, which may be the reason why LM is not sold in Japan now.
The next-generation LM should be different from Alaphard in interior design, rather than simply decorating an Alaphard with some elements of Lexus ...
otherwise such a 7-seat version of Alaphard with only the appearance of Lexus is difficult to be called a luxury car ...
 
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ssun30

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We all know the current generation LM is a stop-gap solution to address immediate needs in China and SEA. Dealerships were rioting demanding a vehicle like this, same to how Lexus rushed out a half-baked RX-L under pressure from american dealers. Next-gen should be properly designed as a Lexus.
 
Rydo

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Part of me loves the new LM and part of me does see the obvious badge-engineering in it. Regardless, with the prices that they are commanding in China and the fact that China is not remotely a market that the UK imports from - unlike Japan where dozens of import agents exist - I don't think that me owning an LM is a realistic prospect.

Now, if they launch it in Japan with only a reasonable markup, plus the fact that RHD is far more desirable for myself living in the UK, then I see could myself importing one at some point. The road presence of this thing would be unreal, especially given the tiny market here for passenger vans/minivans.
 
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ssun30

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So apparently, the MY2020 ChDM LM/Alphard/Vellfire hybrid system is detuned. The 2AR-FXE engine now ONLY makes 86kW (115hp) at 4700rpm and 198N.m (146lb.ft) at 2800-4000rpm. The motors and battery are the same as NX300h. The combined system output is now only 120kW (161hp). The top speed is also reduced from 180km/h (112mph) to 152km/h (94mph)
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This detuned 2.5L 2AR-FXE is probably the lowest specific output gasoline engine ever made since 1990, lower than low-revving truck engines (maybe some American big-block V8s are lower). In fact its output is similar to the 2.2L 22R-E introduced in 1982. If I have to guess this detuning is to comply to the new China-VI emissions regulations. But for some reason the NX keeps the original 114kW ICE/145kW combined rating. The curb weight of LM300h is 2280kg (5030lbs) so that's 0.053 kW/kg or (0.032 hp/lb), barely beating the Yaris 1.0.

And remember this: the most expensive car Lexus sells in the world, at USD 205,000, has 161hp. It is more expensive than the 473hp RC-F TE, and will be more expensive than the 650+hp LC-F (if there is any). It also has a lower top speed than a 1.0L Yaris. And the only cars with lower power-to-weight ratio in Toyota's entire lineup are the African market J70/J150/Hilux with 1HZ and 5L diesel engines built since 1990.

How did no one notice this? And how did no chinese media journalist realize "wait that doesn't sound right"?

Yes, I understand power isn't everything for a car. But this is downright rip-off.
 
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Rydo

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ssun30 said:
So apparently, the MY2020 ChDM LM/Alphard/Vellfire hybrid system is detuned. The 2AR-FXE engine now ONLY makes 86kW (115hp) at 4700rpm and 198N.m (146lb.ft) at 2800-4000rpm. The motors and battery are the same as NX300h. The combined system output is now only 120kW (161hp). The top speed is also reduced from 180km/h (112mph) to 152km/h (94mph)
View attachment 3976

This detuned 2.5L 2AR-FXE is probably the lowest specific output gasoline engine ever made since 1990, lower than low-revving truck engines (maybe some American big-block V8s are lower). In fact its output is similar to the 2.2L 22R-E introduced in 1982. If I have to guess this detuning is to comply to the new China-VI emissions regulations. But for some reason the NX keeps the original 114kW ICE/145kW combined rating.

And remember this: the most expensive car Lexus sells in the world, at USD 205,000, has 161hp. It is more expensive than the 473hp RC-F TE, and will be more expensive than the 650+hp LC-F (if there is any). It also has a lower top speed than a 1.0L Yaris. And the only cars with lower power-to-weight ratio in Toyota's entire lineup are the African market J70/J150/Hilux with 1HZ and 5L diesel engines built since 1990.

How did no one notice this? And how did no chinese media journalist realize "wait that doesn't sound right"?

Yes, I understand power isn't everything for a car. But this is downright rip-off.
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A very interesting point. I thought that the vehicle was available with a non-hybrid Powertrain too? How does that compare?
 
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ssun30

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Rydo said:
A very interesting point. I thought that the vehicle was available with a non-hybrid Powertrain too? How does that compare?
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There is supposed to be a LM350 for markets out of China. But now we are not seeing any.

The JDM Alphard also comes with an embarrassingly underpowered 2.5L 2AR-FE. It's that super boring engine used on the Camry from 2009 until 2017.

It would be super interesting to see this car tested on a continuous gradient and see what happens when the battery runs out. Then 115hp propelling a 2.3t car up a hill (those African market trucks at least have a low range!). I guess the billionaire owners will just hire some poor people to push it 🤣
 
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Rydo

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mikeavelli said:
The new 2021 Sienna is superb. Makes me wonder what a Lexus version could be.
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I’m just seeing it now. It’s not a very nice vehicle plus the proportions are not as grand as the LM. It’s more of a mid-size thing like the Estima.
 
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