The Future of the IS Thread

[spwolf]

I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60

I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.

 

[GNS]

I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.

Speed definitely matters...otherwise none of us here would care if the 2GR-FKS makes a return in the 4IS.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.

Right, but caring about speed and caring about the overall driving experience are different things. In general, for top-class cars like the LS and LC, they're what used to be called "fast enough", and great handling is a differentiator.

For the IS, speed does matter.

 

[ssun30]

I just have this thought today that the 500h drivetrain can make a really fast IS. The LS and LC hybrids really surprise us with their straightline speed considering the power-to-weight ratio. It might even be powerful enough that a IS500h might be traction-limited.

I know it's not the best idea though as the multi-stage does not belong on a $50k vehicle...

 

[spwolf]

I just have this thought today that the 500h drivetrain can make a really fast IS. The LS and LC hybrids really surprise us with their straightline speed considering the power-to-weight ratio. It might even be powerful enough that a IS500h might be traction-limited.

I know it's not the best idea though as the multi-stage does not belong on a $50k vehicle...

there are rumors about IS500h being available, and also rumors that smaller powertrains will get multi-stage.

 

[ssun30]

there are rumors about IS500h being available, and also rumors that smaller powertrains will get multi-stage.

A 2.5L hybrid with a single ravigenaux gearset and three stages sounds like a great fit for the Highlander. Now the hybrids can get a low range without a transfer box. Opens up possibilities for hybrid trucks and offroad SUVs.

Great for the IS as well. The low gear can vastly increase launch performance which is demonstrated on the 500h already.

 

[spwolf]

A 2.5L hybrid with a single ravigenaux gearset and three stages sounds like a great fit for the Highlander. Now the hybrids can get a low range without a transfer box. Opens up possibilities for hybrid trucks and offroad SUVs.

Great for the IS as well. The low gear can vastly increase launch performance which is demonstrated on the 500h already.

and keep in mind that Highlander 4cly hybrid is coming for sure (announced with plant expansion that will build it), and thus RX will too. We wondered before how it will be done due to the weight (and even if it loses some weight), but now it makes more and more sense.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

and keep in mind that Highlander 4cly hybrid is coming for sure (announced with plant expansion that will build it), and thus RX will too. We wondered before how it will be done due to the weight (and even if it loses some weight), but now it makes more and more sense.

Eek, that sounds rather underpowered, though it should still be slightly better than the old 2.7l 4cyl.

 

[sl0519]

Speed definitely matters...otherwise none of us here would care if the 2GR-FKS makes a return in the 4IS.

and here's another real world acc test of the LS

It's not slow (5.86 sec) by any means, but far from manufacturer claimed number
speed definitely matters, otherwise there is no need for improvement
Back to 4IS...if 3.5TT does indeed make into the next IS, power should not be an issue. Weight will be more of a concern. Lexus needs to figure that part out.
The press have mentioned it too many times, from the IS, to the RC. The new LS does not seem to benefit from the new platform. Lets hope things will eventually get better.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

and here's another real world acc test of the LS

It's not slow (5.86 sec) by any means, but far from manufacturer claimed number
speed definitely matters, otherwise there is no need for improvement
Back to 4IS...if 3.5TT does indeed make into the next IS, power should not be an issue. Weight will be more of a concern. Lexus needs to figure that part out.
The press have mentioned it too many times, from the IS, to the RC. The new LS does not seem to benefit from the new platform. Lets hope things will eventually get better.

Yay an acceleration video!! Take note that this is in Australia, and the place where this guy tests is generally way above sea level, explaining the times. If you look at his other videos, cars are generally 0.5-1.0 second slower than their claimed manufacturers estimated time. I timed this myself and I got 5.6 seconds (not accurate I know), which is still decent nonetheless. Just subtract the delta time and you are good.

 

[spwolf]

and here's another real world acc test of the LS
The new LS does not seem to benefit from the new platform.

Sure it does, it is better handler than 740i. LS better handling vehicle than S and 7? Yes.

As to the weight, it always have to do a lot with luxury.

Just checked out video comparing X3 and RX350. While X3 was considerably faster vehicle, partially due to weight, it also was 6db louder at 70 mph. That is crazy difference between the vehicles, it is like Toyota vs Lexus

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Just checked out video comparing X3 and RX350. While X3 was considerably faster vehicle, partially due to weight, it also was 6db louder at 70 mpg. That is crazy difference between the vehicles, it is like Toyota vs Lexus

For those who aren't aware, 6dB means the X3 is twice as loud as the RX. That's insane.

 

[CT2IS]

I'd take the RX vs X3 interior dbA measurements in that review with a grain of salt. Car and Driver tested both vehicles using a controlled method and got 67db @ 70mph for both vehicles. A tie. There's no way an X3 is twice as loud as an RX particularly since I can guarantee you the torsional rigidity of the X3 is a fair bit higher than the RX. The Audi SQ5 bested both the BMW and Lexus by 1db.

I can't link since my account is new. But look up Car and Driver's test. They do a very thorough job at testing various metrics such as interior db, sight line angles, etc.

 

[spwolf]

I'd take the RX vs X3 interior dbA measurements in that review with a grain of salt. Car and Driver tested both vehicles using a controlled method and got 67db @ 70mph for both vehicles. A tie. There's no way an X3 is twice as loud as an RX particularly since I can guarantee you the torsional rigidity of the X3 is a fair bit higher than the RX. The Audi SQ5 bested both the BMW and Lexus by 1db.

I can't link since my account is new. But look up Car and Driver's test. They do a very thorough job at testing various metrics such as interior db, sight line angles, etc.

What does torsional rigidity have to do with sound proofing, weight of the vehicle and saving a bit of money? X3 is also noticeably louder in that video, including very loud engine, and certainly reviewers liked it so I have no doubts about its authenticity - you can very well hear it.

And it is not 2x, it is 60% louder.

p.s. i also found it interesting that RX got same mpg with 15 year old V6 than brand new 2.0t from BMW, despite lighter weight of the X3.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

For those who aren't aware, 6dB means the X3 is twice as loud as the RX. That's insane.

And it is not 2x, it is 60% louder.

As I understand it, each decibel is exponentially more powerful than the last so that every 10db is twice as loud. Going by that, each 1db works out to about 7.177% louder, compounding. So, 6db louder is about 51.5% louder. That's still a big difference.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Perhaps the C&D difference is between German and US-built X3s?

 

[ssun30]

Yes dB is a logarithmic metric. But keep in mind human ears are logarithmic as well. We don't really perceive a 6dB difference as strong as the mathematical value would suggest. But still, 6dB is notable in real life.

Anyway, why did we start a noise comparison under the IS thread?

 

[mikeavelli]

Sure it does, it is better handler than 740i. LS better handling vehicle than S and 7? Yes.

As to the weight, it always have to do a lot with luxury.

Just checked out video comparing X3 and RX350. While X3 was considerably faster vehicle, partially due to weight, it also was 6db louder at 70 mph. That is crazy difference between the vehicles, it is like Toyota vs Lexus

X3 vs NX it is not a head on RX competitor. With the RX offering 3 rows it is clearly the X5 it competes with.

So tired of reviews and people missing this.

 

[Gecko]

Hey guys, lets get this back to 4IS discussion.

Thanks.

 

[internalaudit]

I think I've (we've) got our eyes set out for the 4IS hybrid model (likely with the smallest displacement because we are always budget conscious) especially if the F Sport model for that can come with AVS and variable steering.

I know the 3IS is a very competent vehicle but I prefer at least a hybrid (really want a sedan BEV) to justify the capital outlay, lol. We'll see once we find out more about the 4IS and whether it will have a lot more to offer compared to a used 3IS 350 F Sport with AVS/ variable steering since buying used will mean almost like 10 years of fuel savings (10-15k miles/year) as oppose to buying new.