The Future of the IS Thread

[spwolf]

Would they keep using 8AR-FTS for new TNGA vehicles launched after 2019? Surely it will live on some legacy models, but I doubt the IS will be using it. An IS300 would not go low enough in China (IS260 is a more appropriate entry-level model), nor high enough in US (competition will move to the 200kW/280hp class which is better covered by the 2.5T).



I feel the hybrid system between the 300h and 500h is the 450h. The FKS-based 2.5 hybrid with high output battery (for the time being let's call it 350h) that could appear on the Highlander should be considered a variant of the 300h. The 450h could be a turbo hybrid utilizing either 2.0T or 2.5T ICE. Offering a 350h and 450h is consistent with their twin hybrid strategy. A more affordable RX350h is something they certainly need in Europe.

Going back to the IS, I doubt EU will care about the 300h losing 13hp if price is reduced (and actual power at the wheels should be comparable due to efficiency improvements). Then a 450h in the 225-250kW class could be the flagship non-F model, should they not choose to do an F-lite/F strategy.


Like the 8AR-FTS, the 2GR-FKS will be near EOL in 2019 and should only be used on legacy models. Launching yet another IS350 with 310hp is asking for embarrassment.

- 2.5t is replacement for 3.5 V6... it is not going to happen in US where people prefer V6. 2.5t is likely more expensive to produce too.
- 2.0t as base, sure... they will use that engine for quite a while... just improve it and it will likely be much better fit for TNGA than old platform.
- 300h will not lose 13hp in EU... it will simply have different tuning for RWD with more hp, look below.
- IS300h had 181hp from engine, NX300h has 155hp from engine, Camry has 176hp from engine. So 5+ hp extra from exhaust, etc, then 5hp extra in battery power will bring us to more than IS300h. But this is not enough for Highlander and RX. What they could possibly do is use non-atkinson version of engine, like old GS450h for instance, from Camry - so 205hp + 45hp from battery output and thats 250hp... pretty reasonable for Highlander! It can still go into atkinson cycle like Camry engine, just not all the time. It will still be very efficient compared to 450h engine.

Neither 8AR nor 2GR will reach AOL in next 5 years or so.

Lots of manufacturers like Volvo are saying how these are their last generation engines btw.

 

[spwolf]

Nice analysis here. A recurring theme with TNGA Lexus is a reduction of space efficiency in exchange for styling and driving dynamics. Making the LS500 with FMR layout is a wonderful decision and they should do that for the IS as well. It seems that enlarging the IS to Mark X size will add little to no cabin space.

Yep, but keep in mind that with ES they specifically added rear legroom . Engine looks like it is positioned to take least possible amount of wheelbase.

 

[Levi]

If car makers made V4 engines, cars would have longer useful wheel base, short front overhang, better dynamics thanks to RWD or better AWD systems than transverse, and more refined engine than I4 or V6, and better layout hybridization without space loss. But with ICE on their deathbed (or not?), because of BEVs, it is probably to late to change.

 

[ssun30]

If car makers made V4 engines, cars would have longer useful wheel base, short front overhang, better dynamics thanks to RWD or better AWD systems than transverse, and more refined engine than I4 or V6, and better layout hybridization without space loss. But with ICE on their deathbed (or not?), because of BEVs, it is probably to late to change.

The cost of quad cams on a V4 engine kills it. Same for B4. Subaru and Porsche only do B4 for legacy reasons.

 

[mikeavelli]

Also with the ES growing HUGE in length, 196 inches, I fully expect the next IS to grow significantly as well.

There has to be a next IS F.

And bring a wagon too or a 5 door. lol

 

[mordecai]

With conservative Lexus, I could see the TTV6 being the IS-F engine.

 

[Trexus]

Yes bring back the IS Sportcross wagon (entry level) and bring on LS Sportcross wagon (LF-1 (flagship)).

 

[Levi]

Well, to reply to this thread, if the next IS will remain RWD based, new generation GS or not, if the IS does grow in size closer, I really want it to have more rear seat space mostly. If not, the current IS 300h does not lack anything at all.

The cost of quad cams on a V4 engine kills it. Same for B4. Subaru and Porsche only do B4 for legacy reasons.

This then also applies to V6 vs I6. After BMW remaining committed to I6, Mercedes is replacing their V6 lineup by I6. JLR is also to follow suite, and so for Aston Martin (Mercedes engine). All other car makers have abandoned NA V6 for FI I4, Toyota is the only to use NA V6 (with Honda). Toyota needed BMW to put an I6 into their new Supra.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

With conservative Lexus, I could see the TTV6 being the IS-F engine.

This is, precisely, what I'm expecting. It could be tuned for more power than LS 500, though, since IS would surely be lighter than LS. As I've said time and again, Lexus makes its cars as powerful as possible without incurring a U.S. EPA Gas Guzzler penalty (LFA excepted).

 

[spwolf]

Also with the ES growing HUGE in length, 196 inches, I fully expect the next IS to grow significantly as well.

There has to be a next IS F.

And bring a wagon too or a 5 door. lol

I dont think it will grow a lot, a bit maybe. But it will be more sport focused for sure which again means tighter rear space.

I do expect IS500. Competition is doing it, they will too.

 

[MichaelL]

Also with the ES growing HUGE in length, 196 inches, I fully expect the next IS to grow significantly as well.

There has to be a next IS F.

And bring a wagon too or a 5 door. lol

I hope it doesn't grow too much. I am considering it for my next car, but I live in a city and appreciate a compact size. I hope it doesn't grow more than a couple inches in overall length.

 

[Levi]

GS4 has a 5cm longer wheelbase than IS3, yet is almost 20cm longer overall. It means the remaining 15cm happen at the overhangs. Overhangs are what make a car huge and difficult to drive in tight spaces, because it is harder to estimate the overhangs, that to feel the wheelbase. If the new IS gets a slightly longer wheelbase, where all to added space goes to rear seats, but overhangs remain short, it would remain a 'compact' sporty sedan, with rear seats good for long trips.

 

[ssun30]

GS4 has a 5cm longer wheelbase than IS3, yet is almost 20cm longer overall. It means the remaining 15cm happen at the overhangs. Overhangs are what make a car huge and difficult to drive in tight spaces, because it is harder to estimate the overhangs, that to feel the wheelbase. If the new IS gets a slightly longer wheelbase, where all to added space goes to rear seats, but overhangs remain short, it would remain a 'compact' sporty sedan, with rear seats good for long trips.

This is why the LWB 3-series gets much more rear space than SWB 5-series despite being much shorter; in fact the sub-4.8m 3-Series L has more legroom than full-size SUVs like the GLS or Range Rover. It's ridiculously space efficient.
However, for the IS a lot of wheelbase stretch will be used to allow a FMR layout (if they keep doing it for the IS). I'm expecting at most 50mm/2in longer interior cabin to make the rear usable but definitley not spacious. But usable is all they need.
To me a 4GS with 50mm shorter overhangs and front axle moving forward by 20mm is a perfect size for 4IS. The side profile of the 4GS looks very compact for its actual size. I don't think maneuvrability is a concern for sedan shoppers since they are already sacrificing maneuvrability by choosing a sedan in the first place. The only place where a 4800mm IS could have major difficulty moving is Japan, but the compact-size 3IS is a whale on Japanese roads already.

 

[spwolf]

This is why the LWB 3-series gets much more rear space than SWB 5-series despite being much shorter; in fact the sub-4.8m 3-Series L has more legroom than full-size SUVs like the GLS or Range Rover. It's ridiculously space efficient.
However, for the IS a lot of wheelbase stretch will be used to allow a FMR layout (if they keep doing it for the IS). I'm expecting at most 50mm/2in longer interior cabin to make the rear usable but definitley not spacious. But usable is all they need.
To me a 4GS with 50mm shorter overhangs and front axle moving forward by 20mm is a perfect size for 4IS. The side profile of the 4GS looks very compact for its actual size. I don't think maneuvrability is a concern for sedan shoppers since they are already sacrificing maneuvrability by choosing a sedan in the first place. The only place where a 4800mm IS could have major difficulty moving is Japan, but the compact-size 3IS is a whale on Japanese roads already.

They are not going to make IS 4.8m... doesnt make much sense. They will make it similar size with larger wheelbase, like many of TNGA vehicles.

 

[Levi]

The Infiniti Q50 is in the same class as IS, it is compared to A4, C Class and 3 Series. Yet is has the same wheelbase of 2.8m and an overall length of4.81m (4cm shorter than GS4). While the Q50 has no low powered hybrid, it has a high powered hybrid version, equivalent to GS 450h, hypothetical IS 450h, that I see being replaced by the 500h used in LS and LC. New IS should have a more powerful hybrid. Just as you can choose from different power ICE, so you should be able to chose from different poyer HEV and BEV.

 

[spwolf]

The Infiniti Q50 is in the same class as IS, it is compared to A4, C Class and 3 Series. Yet is has the same wheelbase of 2.8m and an overall length of4.81m (4cm shorter than GS4). While the Q50 has no low powered hybrid, it has a high powered hybrid version, equivalent to GS 450h, hypothetical IS 450h, that I see being replaced by the 500h used in LS and LC. New IS should have a more powerful hybrid. Just as you can choose from different power ICE, so you should be able to chose from different poyer HEV and BEV.

sure, but Lexus will not have 3 large sedans... IS needs to be small sporty sedan, or else whats the point?

Q50 is not a great vehicle, it should not be what Lexus IS targets.

 

[ssun30]

or else whats the point?

Hint: 7ES is huge. It's not mid-size; it's full-size.

4800mm was the upper bound I assumed for the 4IS, of course they can build it smaller, but anything smaller than the Mark X would be a problem.

 

[MichaelL]

sure, but Lexus will not have 3 large sedans... IS needs to be small sporty sedan, or else whats the point?

Q50 is not a great vehicle, it should not be what Lexus IS targets.

Amen!

 

[Levi]

Lexus GS3 and GS4 wheelbase remained the same at 2850 mm. The IS3 wheelbase grew by 70 mm to 2800 mm from the IS2 wheelbase of 2730 mm.

Lexus IS is the smallest in this class, and as Lexus does not have any compact FWD sedan (Toyota takes care of that space), and the ES takes care of the entry (real) luxury space, the IS will likely remain in the compact sport space.

 

[CIF]

Japanese publication Mag X has a rough sketch of the 4IS:

https://www.mag-x.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=109

It looks as though styling will be fairly evolutionary. Also something is mentioned about an "expansion" of the IS body along with demand of GS disappearing. I can only assume this means the 4IS will get bigger, but I don't speak Japanese so cannot confirm. It matches some rumors though that the GS may disappear, and the IS may grow physically/get an expanded lineup. A new 2.4L turbo engine is also mentioned for the IS.