The Future of the IS Thread

[internalaudit]

They should just slap torque vectoring (the Lexus variant on the RCF and GSF not the subtle DTV the RAV4 has) on all the 4IS and watch sales soar. If the GS isn't selling that great, might as well flood the market with nice entry level performance sedans, since there really isn't much cannibalization.

I know marketing and accounting professionals would rather keep some key performance features like torque vectoring to higher trim/displacement models but they should really identify the 3 Series, A4, C Class, G70, etc. as competition and not IS to IS sales. We know that fewer people opt for the IS350 anyway, why not make more people (pulled in from competing brands) buy the cheaper IS with torque vectoring? Don't make torque vectoring standard, just make it an upgrade.

But yeah, I'm only interested in a hybrid version if buying new (buying used, I'm not going to be to0 picky haha) so that likely precludes any kind of torque vectoring, ala Sports Hybrid SH-AWD.

 

[Gecko]

They should just slap torque vectoring (the Lexus variant on the RCF and GSF not the subtle DTV the RAV4 has) on all the 4IS and watch sales sour. If the GS isn't selling great, might as well flood the market with nice entry level performance sedans.

But yeah, I'm only interested in a hybrid version if buying new (buying used, I'm not going to be to picky haha) so that likely precludes any kind of torque vectoring, ala Sports Hybrid SH-AWD.

I love that idea, but that torque vectoring rear differential is super expensive. I think on RC F, it was like a $10k option package, right? Not good for a core compact sedan.

If Lexus was to make the IS full time AWD, draw up the stake and light the fire because you'll want to burn me for saying this, but from a resource perspective, it would almost make more sense to just use the FWD Camry platform, make it "sporty AWD" like Acura, and consolidate R&D costs. I have a feeling this could be what happens to the 5IS if it lasts that long.

 

[ssun30]

Good point: the relationship between GR/2.X T could be flipped. Do we know the 4IS will be lighter? Considering the weight gain of the 5LS and the heft of the LC, I do not really have much faith in the new IS coming in below 4k lbs. How did weight change for the Crown... it's on "GA-N" platform or something, right?

The S220 is about the same weight as the S210 despite growing in size. The 2.0t RWD starts at 1690kg or 3730lbs. The top 3.5 multistage hybrid is 30kg heavier than similarly equipped S210 or GS450h.

 

[internalaudit]

I love that idea, but that torque vectoring rear differential is super expensive. I think on RC F, it was like a $10k option package, right? Not good for a core compact sedan.

If Lexus was to make the IS full time AWD, draw up the stake and light the fire because you'll want to burn me for saying this, but from a resource perspective, it would almost make more sense to just use the FWD Camry platform, make it "sporty AWD" like Acura, and consolidate R&D costs. I have a feeling this could be what happens to the 5IS if it lasts that long.

$10k option sounds like a $4-5k cost to Toyota and making it an option (not standard) is a reasonable idea. I don't care much about 0-100 time but I would love to have a car that handles bends and corners with ease. I am also fuel cost conscious (not that I'm piss poor but it's one of those expenses that we have control over, along with our choice of highway cruising speed) so I tend to skip the higher displacement models.

True about FWD platform as long as they can make the weight balance close to 50/50. If it's going to cost more to make it close to 50/50, then RWD it will have to be. Doesn't the Camry have a rear double wishbone suspension? Maybe make all four suspensions double wishbone on the 4IS haha but repair costs will be a nightmare.

The 2nd gen TLX sounds very interesting. I am hoping the cheaper model will get rid of PAWS and just go with SH-AWD.

I think Toyota and Honda are silly not to offer more extras to the smaller displacement TLX and IS. Some, like me, will be willing to pay for it and it's not like they produce cars base on projections and tweak that every time new information is in. Also, they can rarely upsell people to take the more expensive variants, why not just try to pull prospective buyers (in the class segment) into the fold?

 

[mikeavelli]

I love that idea, but that torque vectoring rear differential is super expensive. I think on RC F, it was like a $10k option package, right? Not good for a core compact sedan.

If Lexus was to make the IS full time AWD, draw up the stake and light the fire because you'll want to burn me for saying this, but from a resource perspective, it would almost make more sense to just use the FWD Camry platform, make it "sporty AWD" like Acura, and consolidate R&D costs. I have a feeling this could be what happens to the 5IS if it lasts that long.

TVD is also super heavy, one of the reasons it’s not on the RC F Track Edition.

 

[mikeavelli]

I have to admit I was a bit behind on really acknowledging all the German power plants. It’s easy to overlook their mid range sport offerings but even the C43 makes 385hp etc

They have all moved to a lower power, mid power and ridiculous power strategy. Many offer mild hybrids. I highly doubt the IS competed there.

Thus I think a big selling point to the masses could be a nice high MPG hybrid. I do hope it’s offered with F-sport.

Lexus to their credit has remained the quality leader which helps the IS with the masses. Hey

 

[som987]

Any further news on the new IS? Been reading a lot about the 2022 NX and trademarks etc. so wondering if there is anything similar for the IS which is apparently supposed to launch a year before?

 

[Gecko]

Merged.

 

[spwolf]

They should just slap torque vectoring (the Lexus variant on the RCF and GSF not the subtle DTV the RAV4 has) on all the 4IS and watch sales soar. If the GS isn't selling that great, might as well flood the market with nice entry level performance sedans, since there really isn't much cannibalization.

why? I mean AWD take is pretty low in the US, even for cheap AWD systems.

 

[spwolf]

Good point: the relationship between GR/2.X T could be flipped. Do we know the 4IS will be lighter? Considering the weight gain of the 5LS and the heft of the LC, I do not really have much faith in the new IS coming in below 4k lbs. How did weight change for the Crown... it's on "GA-N" platform or something, right?

It seems to me that there is much more investment for the FWD TNGA platforms vs. the RWD ones, but we also have far fewer RWD models to choose from. I would love to see "IS Prime" or "IS 450h+" but to me, at this time, it seems like a bit of a jump since we haven't seen any RWD TNGA products with that powertrain so far.

For other markets, I can definitely see "IS 250, 260" or keeping some "IS 300."

Supposedly I read somewhere that they are gunning for 34xx lbs for IS... Crown did go down in weigh maybe 100kg-200kg, hard to say.

 

[spwolf]

Again, I apologize if this comes off harsh but I just sort of get flabbergasted sometimes. The idea that people look at the G70 or whatever else and sit it and still walk away impressed just sort of stuns me, but I guess it is all relative.

I dont see why people would not go with various different brands. I went from IS220d to A7 3.0t too. I was "aware" that Audi wont have same "quality" as something similar (what exactly is similar, GS?) but i willing took that risk (dont like it).

Nothing in life is black and white, 0 and 1... depending on massive amount of criteria, people select their vehicles.

 

[mikeavelli]

Supposedly I read somewhere that they are gunning for 34xx lbs for IS... Crown did go down in weigh maybe 100kg-200kg, hard to say.

I would be shocked if it weighed that little. Every Lexus has tacked on a lot of weight with the new platforms.

 

[Levi]

No way new IS gets carryover engines, unless it is a life-cycle extention, like the BMW X5 F15, but that one was competitive, the IS is not (other the would be no this problem in first place).

 

[spwolf]

light weight helps, 0-100kmh in Crown 3.5l hybrid is 4.73s on youtube tests (best we can get).

I would be shocked if it weighed that little. Every Lexus has tacked on a lot of weight with the new platforms.

RX will also go down, just like what Highlander did.

Isn't LS only model that really got new rwd platform? LC didn't exist before.

NX will also go down for sure.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

light weight helps, 0-100kmh in Crown 3.5l hybrid is 4.73s on youtube tests (best we can get).


RX will also go down, just like what Highlander did.

Isn't LS only model that really got new rwd platform? LC didn't exist before.

NX will also go down for sure.

LS got heavier though... It only didn't feel as bad because of its engine...

 

[spwolf]

LS got heavier though... It only didn't feel as bad because of its engine...

LS got heavier because they added so much to it, luxury... Crown actually got lighter. So it is not platforms fault, but what they are trying to get out of it.

 

[spwolf]

I have to admit I was a bit behind on really acknowledging all the German power plants. It’s easy to overlook their mid range sport offerings but even the C43 makes 385hp etc

They have all moved to a lower power, mid power and ridiculous power strategy. Many offer mild hybrids. I highly doubt the IS competed there.

Thus I think a big selling point to the masses could be a nice high MPG hybrid. I do hope it’s offered with F-sport.

Lexus to their credit has remained the quality leader which helps the IS with the masses. Hey

when it comes to german engines, everything is awesome on paper... but for instance their mild hybrids are really a big joke, as much as I hate using that word.

Not that Lexus should not do what they are going to do, and sure they are late with it... but IS with 300h, 450h+, 350 (2.4t) and F (V6tt) is going to have excellent powertrains.

Same goes with NX, what they have rumored for NX is going to be top strategy worldwide.

 

[spwolf]

I don't think the Mazda rumor was ever about the 4IS. Maybe a refresh down the road, or even the 5IS if it lives that long. Most of the R&D work for the 4IS would have been done ~3 years ago... way too early for the Mazda collaboration rumors.

If there is to be an IS F, it would make much more sense for it to have the V35A-FTS because that engine was developed in-house around the same time as 4IS development.

Mazda rumor was never about IS-F, but certainly it was about IS. What I meant for IS-F rumors was that it would use BMW engine.

 

[internalaudit]

why? I mean AWD take is pretty low in the US, even for cheap AWD systems.

Torque vectoring AWD. But I probably will only go for that in a BEV (not any more mechanically complex and charging is cheap) unless Toyota puts two electric motors in the rear axle for its hybrid IS or NX, then I could opt for either of them as a stop gag PHEV measure.

If I can wait though, I may just go for a BEV with torque vectoring. I would like how an overweight BEV drives better than a Miata.

VAG knows this. In time, it will trickle down to $60-70k USD BEVs.

All the Right Moves: 2021 Audi e-tron S Sportback

Three electric motors, more power, and electric torque vectoring improve the e-tron's handling.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[spwolf]

Torque vectoring AWD. But I probably will only go for that in a BEV (not any more mechanically complex and charging is cheap) unless Toyota puts two electric motors in the rear axle for its hybrid IS or NX, then I could opt for either of them as a stop gag PHEV measure.

If I can wait though, I may just go for a BEV with torque vectoring. I would like how an overweight BEV drives better than a Miata.

VAG knows this. In time, it will trickle down to $60-70k USD BEVs.

All the Right Moves: 2021 Audi e-tron S Sportback

Three electric motors, more power, and electric torque vectoring improve the e-tron's handling.

www.caranddriver.com

so, Lexus should do torque vectoring AWD in base IS, because:
a. You want it
b. Audi is trickling it down to $60k/$70k SUV BEV

I like your style.