Carmaker1
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If that is even credible information it needs to be rescheduled to sooner than that and likely NAIAS. It is up to them of course, but scheduling is not looking pretty.
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If that is even credible information it needs to be rescheduled to sooner than that and likely NAIAS. It is up to them of course, but scheduling is not looking pretty.
I am pretty sure they would have done it online instead if production model reveal was in question. Maybe it was some concept preview?
Using the E-Axle on the FWD-based ES, turning what is essentially a FWD cruiser into a more sporty AWD vehicle (by using the powerful E-Axle on the rear axle), makes sense, but it makes no sense (to me) on the RWD-based IS. Why put so much front-end torque on an already sporty RWD vehicle?
And I am not sure that there would be the room under the hood (and under the engine) of the IS for a large E-Axle.
If it is possible to make a quicker, faster, sportier IS by hybridizing the TTV6 from the LS 500, leaving it RWD (or mechanical AWD without the E-Axle) it would make sense.
Why does a V6TT need to be high revving to be a F engine? It's not like the 650hp Ecoboost on the Ford GT revs particularly high. The V35A-FTS is already capable of 6,500 rpm and most high performance turbocharged engines have similar redline.
In fact I feel it's a waste if they don't scale the V35A-FTS to beyond 500hp, as the engine is heavily over-engineered already. All they need is transplanting the G16E-GTS (from Yaris GR4) turbocharging setup and they could breeze past 550hp.
E-axle would be very tricky to integrate onto a longitudinal RWD setup since it would just be a packaging nightmare. The whole point of E-axle/E-four is so that there's no mechanical link between the front and rear, with only electric power flowing to tweak the torque distribution. But in a longitudinal RWD setup there's always the propeller shaft.
Even if they magically found space in the engine bay the car would be so front heavy it would drive worse than a FWD vehicle. The only time a front E-axle makes sense is if the car is MR layout like Acura NSX or LMP1 hybrids.
mikeavelli
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Absolutely but from my understanding that is still some years away. I also assume it will work first with an electric vehicle.
The current F cars redline safely at 7200 RPM. They are big 5.0 V-8s with peaky power and lower torque. Signature to the lineup for awhile now. I see what you are saying but 6500 RPM is pretty meh to me even with 700hp. I would prefer the engine to scream a bit.
But who knows. It seems internally they are hard at work with new engines, tech and electric stuff...
Because naturally aspirated engines have everything to gain from higher revs, higher revs means more air sucked in and thus more power. BTW I'm very upset the 2UR-GSE is capped at 7200rpm even though it's totally capable of 8k+.
There are few turbocharged engines out there that would rev past 7k. And it's not like turbocharged engines even benefit from high rpm, since their power is limited by boost pressure and compressor flow rate, not rpm. They would just be 'screaming' for nothing.
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Joaquin Ruhi
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I've said it ad nauseam several times, but I'm convinced that the TT V6 in 5LS is held to only 416 hp because if it were any more powerful in that 4700-5000 lb car it would incur a U.S. EPA gas-guzzler penalty, a huge no-no for Toyota/Lexus (LFA and trucks excepted). Put that TT V6 in a lighter 4IS F and it would surely be tuned for more power.
internalaudit
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With electric motors, sky is the limit with configurations. Acura Sport Hybrid SH-AWD already allows this.
For the NSX (engine mounted in the rear), two electric motors in front and one motor in the rear.
For the RLX/MDX (engine in front), two electric motors in the rear and one motor in the front.
Honda's pretty good though. They were able to convert the NSX to a front engine to qualify:
Shouldn't the e-axle or higher end e-awd also afford the flexibility? In a straight line, a FWD or RWD will feel the same. It's when the car isn't traveling straight that torque vectoring helps anyway.
For the NSX (engine mounted in the rear), two electric motors in front and one motor in the rear.
For the RLX/MDX (engine in front), two electric motors in the rear and one motor in the front.
Honda's pretty good though. They were able to convert the NSX to a front engine to qualify:
Shouldn't the e-axle or higher end e-awd also afford the flexibility? In a straight line, a FWD or RWD will feel the same. It's when the car isn't traveling straight that torque vectoring helps anyway.
internalaudit
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Toyota/Lexus, when are your bringing out the IS PHV?
For those outside Canada, the reason BMW priced the base model at below $45k is to the car eligible for the $2,500 PHV/EV rebates across all 3 Series PHVs in Canada below $55k (I believe). Maybe we will see a $44k CAD 4IS PHV in Canada in two to three years' time.
driving.ca
BMW late March revealed the Canadian pricing for its new 330e and 330e xDrive plug-in hybrid sedans, giving the RWD variant an MSRP that just barely qualifies it for the federal EV rebate.
The 330e is BMW’s plug-in hybrid variant of the 3 Series, and features a 2.0-litre turbocharged four-cylinder that produces 181 horsepower and 258 lb-ft of torque.
Combined with a 113-horsepower electric motor, total output works out to about 288 horsepower and 310 lb-ft of torque.
Power is sent to the rear wheels in the base model; or to all four in the xDrive-spec version. The RWD model has an MSRP of $44,950, while the xDrive model carries a premium of $54,000 MSRP.
For those outside Canada, the reason BMW priced the base model at below $45k is to the car eligible for the $2,500 PHV/EV rebates across all 3 Series PHVs in Canada below $55k (I believe). Maybe we will see a $44k CAD 4IS PHV in Canada in two to three years' time.
The 2021 BMW 330e (just barely) qualifies for Canada's federal EV rebate
The nicely-priced plug-in hybrid variant of the popular luxury sedan is set to hit dealerships in May
BMW late March revealed the Canadian pricing for its new 330e and 330e xDrive plug-in hybrid sedans, giving the RWD variant an MSRP that just barely qualifies it for the federal EV rebate.
The 330e is BMW’s plug-in hybrid variant of the 3 Series, and features a 2.0-litre turbocharged four-cylinder that produces 181 horsepower and 258 lb-ft of torque.
Combined with a 113-horsepower electric motor, total output works out to about 288 horsepower and 310 lb-ft of torque.
Power is sent to the rear wheels in the base model; or to all four in the xDrive-spec version. The RWD model has an MSRP of $44,950, while the xDrive model carries a premium of $54,000 MSRP.
But then there is weight distribution and first of all proportions. FWD just has ugly/cheap proportions with long front overhang and no wheel to door gap.
Carmaker1
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So how and where is this 2021 MY IS coming from? I said 2022 for sometime, yet we heard 2021 for some reason without any mules or prototypes being seen.
What gives is my wonder? I mean really? USA CEO has said only LC this year and I knew this originally to be correct, unless he is lying. There has been no proof of anything coming this year.
What gives is my wonder? I mean really? USA CEO has said only LC this year and I knew this originally to be correct, unless he is lying. There has been no proof of anything coming this year.
Will1991
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@Carmaker1 , could it be some misunderstanding between them?
He could be saying " *up to now* Lexus released".
He could be saying " *up to now* Lexus released".
Gecko
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Been thinking about this car and the mix of rumors we've heard... I think there is a chance the new 2.X turbo 4 cylinder could debut on the IS after all. When I heard "carryover engines," it was because the names did not change and there were no new trademarks like "IS 400" or something. To our point in the NX thread, Lexus is probably using "350" for the new turbo 4 cylinder, so an "IS 350" might not necessarily mean carryover V6.
With that in mind, I could be wrong and overly optimistic, but what I am thinking is: there will be two models, but three engines on the 4IS.
1) IS 300h: easy to assume with 2.5L hybrid 4 cylinder, ~220hp
2) IS 350: core IS model with new 2.X turbo 4cylinder and ~300hp/325lb-ft of torque
3) IS 350 F Sport: Sport model with carryover GR V6, 311hp/277lb-ft of torque (F-Sport comes only in V6)
Does this seem stupid? Yes. But I honestly think Lexus will say, "Oh, sporty shoppers will want to have a V6 and it's more powerful on paper, so we can say we offered one" not thinking those same buyers will realize the turbo 4 has more torque, nearly the same horsepower, and is a brand new design.
For global markets where the IS is offered, I cannot see them offering the 8AR-FTS into 2025 and beyond. If it's true that this IS is all-new and on a TNGA platform, I think it makes sense for them to drop a newer "core" engine into it and then they keep the V6 for North America to satisfy who they think are sporty shoppers. Plus, if this new turbo 4 cylinder is to become Toyota's core workhorse engine, there is production efficiency in moving everything possible over to new TNGA engines and platforms. They still use the GR V6 everywhere (sedans, SUVs, trucks), so it's easy to just keep making that for a small subset of "sporty" buyers. 8AR-FTS is a lower volume engine and has been succeeded by 300h powertrain and this new turbo 4.
With that in mind, I could be wrong and overly optimistic, but what I am thinking is: there will be two models, but three engines on the 4IS.
1) IS 300h: easy to assume with 2.5L hybrid 4 cylinder, ~220hp
2) IS 350: core IS model with new 2.X turbo 4cylinder and ~300hp/325lb-ft of torque
3) IS 350 F Sport: Sport model with carryover GR V6, 311hp/277lb-ft of torque (F-Sport comes only in V6)
Does this seem stupid? Yes. But I honestly think Lexus will say, "Oh, sporty shoppers will want to have a V6 and it's more powerful on paper, so we can say we offered one" not thinking those same buyers will realize the turbo 4 has more torque, nearly the same horsepower, and is a brand new design.
For global markets where the IS is offered, I cannot see them offering the 8AR-FTS into 2025 and beyond. If it's true that this IS is all-new and on a TNGA platform, I think it makes sense for them to drop a newer "core" engine into it and then they keep the V6 for North America to satisfy who they think are sporty shoppers. Plus, if this new turbo 4 cylinder is to become Toyota's core workhorse engine, there is production efficiency in moving everything possible over to new TNGA engines and platforms. They still use the GR V6 everywhere (sedans, SUVs, trucks), so it's easy to just keep making that for a small subset of "sporty" buyers. 8AR-FTS is a lower volume engine and has been succeeded by 300h powertrain and this new turbo 4.
internalaudit
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So no more I6 longitudinal design for the next IS?
It is interesting but if you ask me, i think they will offer wide range of engines in new IS, as it will also be lighter than before.
They might also offer Prime version like NX does, if there is space.
As to the 350 turbo vs 350, so far they did not shy with offering 300 as turbo option in US, so I am not sure about this, but I would think that GR might be BASE engine, and 350 turbo upgrade/F-Sport engine. Simply because 350 turbo will end up being faster than GR.
For real base, as long as there is loss of weight, they might even offer 2.5l NA, if they are smart enough... at least for some markets anyway.
For Europe, I dont expect 350 in any form, might be the same as NX, so with 300h and 450h+ powertrains.
it is rumored that next F would have that, be that V6 twin turbo or whatever I6 turbo rumors are.
With 2.4t having 300hp+ with torque to match it, and some weight loss, IS350t will be under 5s 0-60.
Gecko
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I don't think the Mazda rumor was ever about the 4IS. Maybe a refresh down the road, or even the 5IS if it lives that long. Most of the R&D work for the 4IS would have been done ~3 years ago... way too early for the Mazda collaboration rumors.
If there is to be an IS F, it would make much more sense for it to have the V35A-FTS because that engine was developed in-house around the same time as 4IS development.
Gecko
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Good point: the relationship between GR/2.X T could be flipped. Do we know the 4IS will be lighter? Considering the weight gain of the 5LS and the heft of the LC, I do not really have much faith in the new IS coming in below 4k lbs. How did weight change for the Crown... it's on "GA-N" platform or something, right?
It seems to me that there is much more investment for the FWD TNGA platforms vs. the RWD ones, but we also have far fewer RWD models to choose from. I would love to see "IS Prime" or "IS 450h+" but to me, at this time, it seems like a bit of a jump since we haven't seen any RWD TNGA products with that powertrain so far.
For other markets, I can definitely see "IS 250, 260" or keeping some "IS 300."
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