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CRSKTN

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I think and hope the next gen RX will be a killer. With a full suite of TNGA's best, there's no excuse for it not to be.

If they can't justify a major investment in the RX, they won't ever meaningfully invest in anything through Lexus. That thing literally helped build the brand beyond the first impression the LS made.
 
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ssun30

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Let's count who has tried to build a 'Tesla Killer': Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche. All four of them got humiliated because their EVs have 'inferior engineering': less range, less efficiency, higher price, worse production problems. And sales figures reflect that.

No one could build the 'Tesla Killer' because they are trying to play football with their feet. Tesla operates under a completely different set of rules than the regular car company. And to beat it one has to play with Tesla's own rules: more risky technology adoption, rushed time-to-market, less quality control, use early adopters as beta testers, and introduce dangerous features that give owners instant gratification. We know Toyota won't do it and we don't want them to do it. Just look at how paranoid they are with C-HR EV/UX300e's battery pack: they are treating it like it will self-ignite once the owner look the other way. That's why they could not build a 'Tesla Killer' any better than Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi or Porsche.
 

CRSKTN

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Let's count who has tried to build a 'Tesla Killer': Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche. All four of them got humiliated because their EVs have 'inferior engineering': less range, less efficiency, higher price, worse production problems. And sales figures reflect that.

No one could build the 'Tesla Killer' because they are trying to play football with their feet. Tesla operates under a completely different set of rules than the regular car company. And to beat it one has to play with Tesla's own rules: more risky technology adoption, rushed time-to-market, less quality control, use early adopters as beta testers, and introduce dangerous features that give owners instant gratification. The TM3 is not We know Toyota won't do it and we don't want them to do it. Just look at how paranoid they are with C-HR EV/UX300e's battery pack: they are treating it like it will self-ignite once the owner look the other way. That's why they could not build a 'Tesla Killer' any better than Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi or Porsche.

I think presenting the taycan as "inferior" is a bit dishonest. They build it to porsche standards, including repeated use in performance conditions without comparable degradation, and made concessions as they determined were necessary.

I'd rather a safe, well built car with good service, easy to order parts, and proper local infrastructure that has slightly less range than the options i've cross shopped from Tesla.
 

krew

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19-07-10-lexus-is-next-generation-2021.jpg

Two Japanese sources are claiming that the Lexus IS sedan may be getting a refresh this year rather than a next-generation model, as was previously reported. The first indication comes from Kuru Mag, with the following translated text:

Seven years have passed since the 30 Series “Lexus IS” appeared in May 2013, so it is time for a full model change, but it will be partially improved in the fall of 2020.
It is said that the reason why the full model change was canceled was that the IS class FR model would be abolished in the future due to the review of the model sold by Lexus .
The main improvements in the next Lexus IS are changes to the exterior and interior design and the setting of new grades and body colors .

This has also been reported by Best Car, who are claiming that the IS will receive a...

Continue reading...
 
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CRSKTN

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I think your link is broken. It's sending me here: https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/115458

Also my hot take: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Also by different grades, do you think they mean above and beyond the top level packages/interiors currently?

If they made the IS a refresh, the only way it could be mitigated in my mind is if it's a "refresh" with the option to turn it into a small, aggressive LS (limited engine options aside, for now).

You'd be covering 2 sets of niches (small super luxury vs small entry level luxury) with one vehicle, which also accomplishes what MB has been boasting the benefits of (our C class is made more attractive due to similarity to the S class), while also going above and beyond in interior quality to actually be a small LS and not just look the part (the C class is like if you were sitting in an S class and turned the graphics settings to "low").

If they could take the cost of the fully new model, and instead just redeploy to develop these options in a capital efficient way, they could pass the savings to the buyer so that a kitted out IS with LS spec luxury treatments and functionality would still be lower than the LS would start, effectively usurping the GS in some ways and leaving the ES to be the attractive, mid-sized option with nice but reasonable appointments and could double as fleet service vehicles.

I am beginning to think that the whole concept of the "LS+" from a couple years ago, coupled with the insane plans for LIDAR/sensory array kitted out LS test mules, is pointing to the highest levels of "L" Lexus models seeing further upmarket grades as well.

Build out the LS into the proper, westernized Century counterpart through 5 figure options packages (vs nickel and diming you as the europeans do).
Build out the LC, through grades and the LC F, into either a very nice lux cruiser with a NA8 or TTV6/performance hybrid, then give it options to spec it out to be super lux, or go to the LC F and go performance, no back seats, competitive machine.
Bring in a CUV equivalent to the LS, create a category of "lifted panamera", like the LF-1, and give it the same sort of treatment.

That level of choice would immediately, and possibly in a more capital efficient way, add a multiplier effect to the number of markets your hitting.

The germans tried to do it with a million different body styles.

I wonder if Lexus will instead try to go that route with longer-lived platforms, but significant and meaningful optionality on different models which could independently be refreshed over time ("the 2025 IS has a 3 new options for interior choices, 2024 only had 2!"). You're basically replicating the Apple model of incremental change with visible differences to drive desire to have the latest and greatest since it's so visible.

It could also drive more investment in modular design and construction, while still allowing for creative designs at the highest levels (easier said than done, obviously), potentially allowing for Lexus to offer more personalized vehicles (i'm shoving my pipedream in here for Lexus quality vehicle customization).

/speculation
 
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internalaudit

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I think presenting the taycan as "inferior" is a bit dishonest. They build it to porsche standards, including repeated use in performance conditions without comparable degradation, and made concessions as they determined were necessary.

I'd rather a safe, well built car with good service, easy to order parts, and proper local infrastructure that has slightly less range than the options i've cross shopped from Tesla.

Macan BEV in 2022 it seems. Can't wait for progress to unfold.

20 BEVs from Audi by 2025 and another 20 from VW.

Good thing I can wait and not be in a hurry to buy another depreciating asset that isn't very much different from the ones I already have. The TM3 is the only compelling BEV with long enough range (wife does drive 210 km once a week) that doesn't cost an arm and leg but I still don't think Japanese reliability has been reached for everything besides the Tesla power train and even that is suspect with even Car and Driver TM3 rear motor replaced before 10k km had been reached.

I don't need the fastest 0-100 with super fast charging and SCN. I just want one that is fun to drive and more reliable than majority of ICEVs.
 

mikeavelli

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The c class is what 4 years old and still fantastic
New 3 series
A4 is a new model and was just updated
Even Acura has a new tlx coming and genesis the g70. Heck Kia stinger and tesla Model 3 etc all relatively new

I assume Lexus will be happy around 1500-2000 units a month with another refresh. Which lets be honest the motoring press is going to destroy.

Hopeully a Hybrid comes and might as well throw the 5.0 V-& and make a IS F at this rate...
 

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“It is said that the reason why the full model change was canceled was that the IS class FR model would be abolished in the future due to the review of the model sold by Lexus .”
Can someone translate that?
 

CRSKTN

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“It is said that the reason why the full model change was canceled was that the IS class FR model would be abolished in the future due to the review of the model sold by Lexus .”
Can someone translate that?

If i had to guess, and i'm probably wrong, but maybe there are concessions being made by facilitating a RWD model that can no longer be justified, so they are delaying it to rework the next generation to be more cost effective/desirable in other ways? please don't kill the IS.

Maybe the idea of FF + rear drive by e-axle or something performance-hybrid-like has usurped that slot? The article/comments on the e-axle enabled ES mule seemed like that approach makes for a much more engaging drive. If there is a Lexus IS Prime equivalent, i think that could be a good niche and compelling. please don't kill it.

Please Lexus embrace my ridiculous notions.
 

mikeavelli

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“It is said that the reason why the full model change was canceled was that the IS class FR model would be abolished in the future due to the review of the model sold by Lexus .”
Can someone translate that?

It is basically saying the IS has no future. A stunning turn of events as just 10 years ago Lexus had 4 sedans. What I’ve heard is the effort is going in the new Nx and it’s a killer.
A hell of a rumor.
 

CRSKTN

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It is basically saying the IS has no future. A stunning turn of events as just 10 years ago Lexus had 4 sedans. What I’ve heard is the effort is going in the new Nx and it’s a killer.
A hell of a rumor.

Oh dude come on you can't just drop that and leave it.

I've been looking at the NX lately as a winter car, and i'm happy to wait if the next gen isn't too far off and very compelling.

If not, that Macan EV sounds like a decent option depending on timing and price (yes, yes I know).
 

Horus468

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Lexus is disappointing me so much lately and I really feel sorry for those who leased GS/IS and won’t have a new model to go to once their leases are up. The GX got a grille. The RX received AC/AA. The LX gets a “sport” grille. This brand is embarrassing. Once the GS is officially cancelled, I’m done. Sad to go, but like Infiniti, these are all self inflicted wounds.
 

ssun30

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Mercedes and VW have both halted future development of ICE technology. So the W205 C-Class and the B9 A4 are as good as they can get. Neither of them see a future for these two products (or at least think there's no need to invest heavily). A W206 and B10 will be refreshes as well or completely replaced by EVs. I don't know if BMW has a more optimistic view for the future of the 3-series.
 

mikeavelli

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Mercedes and VW have both halted future development of ICE technology. So the W205 C-Class and the B9 A4 are as good as they can get. Neither of them see a future for these two products (or at least think there's no need to invest heavily). A W206 and B10 will be refreshes as well or completely replaced by EVs. I don't know if BMW has a more optimistic view for the future of the 3-series.

bmw just stated at least 30 more years they make ICE engines. Mind you they also said no M SUVs years ago lol
 

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I haven’t posted in ages. Maybe due to the fact that I’m so po’d at how snail-pace Lexus gets their models on the showroom floor. LC F is the only F that’s pretty much coming. I don’t have $200k so I guess I will never own a true F car. You have to be honest and admit that BMW & others got their scheme together and are pushing light speed ahead. X7 and all the crossovers/SAVs are the perfect example of this.

Just giving my 2cents+and I’m not expert at all. I do however read & pay attention to the auto industry. Lexus management seems to be in a limbo. I read the sales figures for 2016-2019. It is a Bad sign. So many models are on the negative year over year. Taco, Camry, Corolla, ‘The King RAV4’, RX, NX. These are outliers. They sell on their own. But the other products needs way more TLC. Unfortunately, they forgot about them. IS, LS, GS, LX, GX are dead models. Whatever they are planning to do. it needs to be done in 2020. IS is -40%+ & declining every year.

A lot of things are happening in the TMG group. It’s a behemoth w many divisions. I am happy they are innovating in an artificial city. Partnering w BMW to push hard on Fuelcell. 2nd gen Mirai is properly hot btw. RAV4 Prime w 90+mpg. Damn! Mobility & Tech co. I get this.

Toyota have been making fun good looking cars. But somehow they forgot that selling cars is competitive. Like I mentioned above. BMW/Merc gets their models a proper refresh. Then new variants are pushed out . Hate them or not. Their teams model board is very organized. They push out what the market craves.

A refreshed IS is so laughable. I won’t even buy one if they priced it at $15. (okay I’ll get 3) but still... I am a loyal fan of Toyota & Lexus. In fact. I love these brands to a fault. But the Toyota Tundra syndrome seems incurable. The Tundra virus is plaguing the Lexus brand and there is no cure in sight. I bet the stretched RX & the X7/Escalade fighter wont come out until 2025. There are quick ways to get buzz back into certain Lexus models. One is AWD on pretty much EVERYthing. Make them all Hybrids or better yet. Hybrid + AWD. There Is also the turbo route.

Let’s get real though. The pedantic nature of the Lexus group will only ensure they thrash away the hard work and reputation they have built over the past 30yrs. Forget the Germans. Take them out of the equation. There are 3 luxury Asian brands that are nipping at their heels. Didn’t even mention the resurgence in the luxury domestic brands.
Wake up Lexy!
 

Levi

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It is basically saying the IS has no future. A stunning turn of events as just 10 years ago Lexus had 4 sedans. What I’ve heard is the effort is going in the new Nx and it’s a killer.
A hell of a rumor.

RWD like "best" in segement X3? Surely not
 
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Toyota / Lexus are boasting their reliability standards which we all have seen that these brands are dependable. Probably, this is one of the reasons they think that its ok to be sluggish and all. I love Lexus products but the interior is really beginning to show its age plus a product life cycle of the IS is taking too long.

Being honest here, if BMW is as dependable as a Toyota / Lexus, that'll be the day I would say "sayonara" Toyota / Lexus.
 

ssun30

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Well I'm beginning to like @Gecko's 'Akio Toyoda hates Lexus' theory. He approved a rally homologation 3-door hatchback made from carbon fiber, but can't approve a GA-N sedan even though 90% of the chassis has already been engineered as the Crown and Mirai 2, they literally just need to design a new body shell.

Even though I don't think any ICEV IS or GS has the reason to exist, a GA-N/L based FCV demonstrator with Lexus badge is the minimum they should do.
 
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