The Future of the IS Thread

[maiaramdan]

Something strange here, Toyota will revive the Mark and some FR in the time where Lexus killing them !!!

 

[b.ba]

To look on the bright side, the platform underpinning the current IS tends to be praised for its handling and adding the potential 2.4/2.5T should help with the powertrain woes that reviewers criticize all the time. Hopefully keeping it on the same platform means that it will be priced accordingly?

 

[Gecko]

So is Lexus going the way of Infiniti with FWD cars only (except LC flagship)?

When Infiniti originally announced this years ago, my stomach kind of churned thinking that Lexus might do the same. I am 50/50 on what happens to the LS in the future... I could see it switching to a "FWD" platform thats electrified to negate torque steer and provide better driving dynamics, or maybe Lexus keeps it on GA-L to try to cover their investment in the platform.

Toyota is so invested in FWD, and Lexus' volume products are all FWD now too, so it's probably hard to justify any further RWD investment when you can get "good enough" driving dynamics in a FWD platform through AWD and electrification.

 

[Gecko]

To look on the bright side, the platform underpinning the current IS tends to be praised for its handling and adding the potential 2.4/2.5T should help with the powertrain woes that reviewers criticize all the time. Hopefully keeping it on the same platform means that it will be priced accordingly?

I agree. And Lexus could do their famous "laser screw welds" and add "structural adhesives," plus I'm sure there will be some suspension changes. New N has been a good platform... so it's not in dire straights like the FWD sedans were.

Also, I'm beginning to think it wasn't a coincidence that the 4IS renders we've seen so far look much like the 3IS on the side and greenhouse shape, but with different bumpers and details.

 

[maiaramdan]

Please some logic
If the new Turkish TOGG managed to get FR - EV so why Lexus can't !!!

 

[b.ba]

Anyway, much of what I am hearing about 4IS is... not a 4IS, but rather a 3.5IS. Same platform and carryover engines with updated exterior and interior styling because Lexus now views it as a niche model not worthy of any more investment than that. Very sad. In execution, I would expect something similar to the 2014 LS 460.

Would the IS still grow in size (as initially anticipated)?

 

[Gecko]

Would the IS still grow in size (as initially anticipated)?

Technically, yes. When you restyle bumpers, they can be an inch or two longer or shorter.

Similarly, they can reshape seats backs or door panels to give fractionally more interior room in some dimensions.

 

[GNS]

To look on the bright side, the platform underpinning the current IS tends to be praised for its handling and adding the potential 2.4/2.5T should help with the powertrain woes that reviewers criticize all the time. Hopefully keeping it on the same platform means that it will be priced accordingly?

Nah, I much prefer the 'outdated' 2GR-FKS V6 over a typical turbo I4.

Much much better sound, smoothness, high and free revs, reliability, no turbo lag. I get that the 2.5T would probably be better suited to the IS because of the torque low in the rpm range, but I'm done with any and all I4s. I'm aiming for V6 and higher from here on for me.

 

[Will1991]

Didn't see this one coming... Isn't Toyota New N like 30 years old?!?! For a new Lexus? With something like TNGA already available and in use for much cheaper models!

Also, how is IS vs. ES pricing around the US? Here in Portugal you can have a fully specced IS300h for (almost) entry level ES250h price... How are they expecting such a move like killing the IS to be a good move?

 

[CRSKTN]

This is insanity. How is BMW treating the 3 series like more of a luxury oriented vehicle than Lexus is with the IS?

 

[corradoMR2]

A "3.5" IS with carryover engines is a major disappointment and another stab towards killing off my 30 year Lexus loyalty.

 

[ssun30]

The writing is on the wall. A brand with no 'legacy' comes in beat up everyone and 3 series is hospitalized, C-class is on life support, and A4 is losing vital signs. Lexus might just realized a new IS will be DOA anyway. They just retired the IS in the last bastion of sedans and even here TM3 is doing the same thing to established products as in everywhere else.

It's like everybody is playing a football (the one 95% of the world plays) game and suddenly someone comes in playing with their hands. There is no way to win.

Honestly, I cannot think of any IS lineup that could win this different type of game. We are all dreaming of new Dynamic Force turbos magically solving the problem of an 'outdated V6' and somehow a 500hp all-ICE F could save the IS. No, the TM3 could drive itself (at least the uneducated public THINK it can), drop people off at work and find its own parking spot, let people play video games or watch movies in a traffic jam AND do 0-60 in 3 seconds while emitting no CO2. A 500hp engine could do none of these. These are dangerous activities but the marketing just works and people get attracted to them.

Trying to make the IS work is like making those Symbian PDAs good enough to fight the iPhone back in 2008. And we all know how well that worked out.

 

[James]

I want a fricken F already! I know the world is changing but come on the Germans just keep getting more and more HP and we aren’t changing anything. I’m super loyal to this brand but come on already give us something more! My lease is up in 22 months on my GS and I honestly have no clue what route to go...

 

[Levi]

Well, if the TM3 plays soccer with hands, why can't Lexus do the same with an IS 500e? The UX 300e is no match.

I understand the FWD packaging and mostly cost argument for ICEVs, but there is absolutely no excuse for FWD BEVs. The most successful BEV manufacturer has only RWD BEVs.
More than that, long front overhangs are just ugly, and this is something every designer thinks. Proof are the FWD ICEV concept cars: they all try too look RWD drive, even when everyone knows the production car will be FWD.

Yes, FWD is a big deal, at least for me. Infiniti and Acura are dead. If Lexus continues the same way, only Genesis and Alfa Romeo are left. But with FCA-PSA merger who knows, after all it is Citroen who invented FWD.

 

[spwolf]

I have come to believe this is how Toyoda/ToMoCo views the Lexus brand overall. Look at CT, IS, GS, LS, UX, GX, LX and even ES to an extent. All of it is minimal effort and "is this good enough?" vs the real passion to build great cars that died somewhere around 2012.

The future of Lexus is FWD. No doubt next gen RX and NX are where they're focusing their resources.

stop.

LC, LS, UX and ES are not minimal effort vehicles.

LC and LS are very much passion cars, so lets not turn this into another CL where there is moaning always and forever when it is not justified.

Both UX and ES are great vehicles much better than CT and ES of old.

 

[Will1991]

The writing is on the wall. A brand with no 'legacy' comes in beat up everyone and 3 series is hospitalized, C-class is on life support, and A4 is losing vital signs. Lexus might just realized a new IS will be DOA anyway. They just retired the IS in the last bastion of sedans and even here TM3 is doing the same thing to established products as in everywhere else.

It's like everybody is playing a football (the one 95% of the world plays) game and suddenly someone comes in playing with their hands. There is no way to win.

Honestly, I cannot think of any IS lineup that could win this different type of game. We are all dreaming of new Dynamic Force turbos magically solving the problem of an 'outdated V6' and somehow a 500hp all-ICE F could save the IS. No, the TM3 could drive itself (at least the uneducated public THINK it can), drop people off at work and find its own parking spot, let people play video games or watch movies in a traffic jam AND do 0-60 in 3 seconds while emitting no CO2. A 500hp engine could do none of these. These are dangerous activities but the marketing just works and people get attracted to them.

Trying to make the IS work is like making those Symbian PDAs good enough to fight the iPhone back in 2008. And we all know how well that worked out.

You should be right on the money with one, it does makes perfect sense. But...

Let me start by saying I really look up what Tesla has managed in so little time and what they did regarding electric propulsion engineering, but I can't believe Toyota executives gave up... I can't believe they can't do a proper Tesla fighter.

Tesla owners are very forgiving, they buy everything, even crappy build cars (fit and finish, sand deposits on the rear bumper, water coming next to the windshield, infotainment screens not build to last, etc..), it's incredible how much luck Tesla has next to owner! Even those first Model 3 owners with even worse build quality are just fine with them! Everything is fine, even with unconceivable problems for the 21 century!

Also, a lot of warranties are getting over and almost all of those cars are 2nd hand owners nowadays... For what I've seen (Here in Portugal they asked 280€ to change one lightbulb from a pre-facelift model S....), they will start to get a lot of complaints... And a lot of that forgiveness will shy away...

This being said, as a brand enthusiast, I can't accept this as a decision... Not even trying to do a Tesla (or anyone else) fighter isn't a solution... It's Toyota engineering prowess at is best for a Lexus, not Suzuki or Dacia...

stop.

LC, LS, UX and ES are not minimal effort vehicles.

LC and LS are very much passion cars, so lets not turn this into another CL where there is moaning always and forever when it is not justified.

Both UX and ES are great vehicles much better than CT and ES of old.

Yes, UX is much better than the CT ever was, but also much more expensive... Here in Portugal a full spec CT is cheaper than base spec UX... This, in my view, makes impossible for the UX to fully replace the CT...

I'm not saying (I was but not anymore) that I'm expecting a 2nd gen CT after what's happening (GS got axed, 4IS seems to have turned into a 3.5IS, not even a AWD ES yet...) but a CT was a much cheaper option to get into a Lexus. And I think this is also important, to get new people into the brand, and the CT was/is a much better fit to do this job.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Also, CUVs are what sells in that size class right now. I'm a little amazed they haven't prioritized the TNGA RX more.

 

[Levi]

Also, CUVs are what sells in that size class right now. I'm a little amazed they haven't prioritized the TNGA RX more.

Especially RWD based with more pseudo-off-road capability and an F version.

 

[Gecko]

stop.

LC, LS, UX and ES are not minimal effort vehicles.

LC and LS are very much passion cars, so lets not turn this into another CL where there is moaning always and forever when it is not justified.

Both UX and ES are great vehicles much better than CT and ES of old.

Stop? lol.

Notice that LC was not in the group of cars I mentioned. ES is built on a platform that is 100% identical to the Toyota Avalon, and it uses an engine and transmission that are also identical. What's different between an ES and Avalon is a strut brace, sound deadening and the sheet metal/plastic trim parts. It's the same story for the UX/C-HR. LS is a different animal and dedicated Lexus product, but I don't need to go on about the shortcomings of that model - it was 8/10ths of the way there, but that last 2/10 was critical and they dropped the ball.

None of this means they're bad cars, it just means Toyota stopped trying to make Lexus a "best in class" brand and has seemingly settled into the role of "Toyota plus" for most of the Lexus lineup.

 

[Gecko]

Also, CUVs are what sells in that size class right now. I'm a little amazed they haven't prioritized the TNGA RX more.

I think and hope the next gen RX will be a killer. With a full suite of TNGA's best, there's no excuse for it not to be.