The Future of the IS Thread

[ssun30]

The biggest advantage of turbocharging is the flexibility to tune the power level. If they do launch an IS-F there's no way they will only offer it with the 310 kW version.

Think of it this way, the 310 kW 'F-lite' version will compete favorably against the likes of C43/S4/340. I don't understand why people instantly rant '416hp IS-F is dead' the moment they see 'V35A-FTS'. It's like saying 'crap the Ford GT is dead because it uses Explorer engine'. If you followed OVTune you will know that the V35A-FTS is easily tunable to 650hp on stock turbos, if the bottom end allows it.

Heck, we are even promised two engines that are more powerful than the V35. These engines have to go somewhere. I am not overly worried about them messing up the IS-F. Remember Lexus is still a value brand compared to BBA, so they ALWAYS offer more at the same price (they have been doing that for 30 years after all). A $65k IS-F will have more power than the AMG/M/RS guaranteed.

The more alarming thing should be the lack of rumor on more electrified options.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

If you followed OVTune you will know that the V35A-FTS is easily tunable to 650hp on stock turbos, if the bottom end allows it.

Can you point us to where they're talking about the V35A-FTS? I'd love to follow along with whatever they're doing there.

Found it!

Toyota / Lexus V35A-FTS Twin Turbo Engine. Can it be tuned? YES!

The all new Toyota / Lexus 3.5L V35A-FTS engine. A marvel from Toyota. There are actually turbochargers in there! This new v6 comes out of the gates with 416 horsepower and 442 ft lbs. Impressive. But is that all it can do? The V35A Engine is one of the most electronically controlled engine...

www.ovtuned.com

They explicitly say the software's limiting how quick the engine is in order to impose smoothness, which is something I've long suspected.

 

[Carmaker1]

The biggest advantage of turbocharging is the flexibility to tune the power level. If they do launch an IS-F there's no way they will only offer it with the 310 kW version.

Think of it this way, the 310 kW 'F-lite' version will compete favorably against the likes of C43/S4/340. I don't understand why people instantly rant '416hp IS-F is dead' the moment they see 'V35A-FTS'. It's like saying 'crap the Ford GT is dead because it uses Explorer engine'. If you followed OVTune you will know that the V35A-FTS is easily tunable to 650hp on stock turbos, if the bottom end allows it.

Heck, we are even promised two engines that are more powerful than the V35. These engines have to go somewhere. I am not overly worried about them messing up the IS-F. Remember Lexus is still a value brand compared to BBA, so they ALWAYS offer more at the same price (they have been doing that for 30 years after all). A $65k IS-F will have more power than the AMG/M/RS guaranteed.

The more alarming thing should be the lack of rumor on more electrified options.

I knew it, thank you! I think using that engine in a two-tier format for the IS would make sense.

As for electrification of the IS, I would need a whole different thread to discuss that.

Also, that seems likely it will not happen before midcycle. Even an electrified IS-F would be very interesting, but would the general buyer base for that vehicle be put off?

I am concerned Tesla's success is derived from "doing it first" or branding, meaning other competitors jumping on the EV bandwagon might face hurdles with desired conquests.

 

[Carmaker1]

I had wanted to reply to a lot of posts in this thread, but I'll just say something nice and simple.

It flabbergasts me that there is a possibility although highly rumoured, that the Lexus lineup will not see any redesigns until MY 2022.

It seems awfully inaccurate, but much of these Japanese reports echo this. The RX is understandably far out, the IS, LX, and NX made sense for CY 2020, but I have observed CY 2021 now for the LX and NX, now IS and LQ.

So what is Lexus doing, other than rebadges (LM), refreshes, and facelifts for MY 2020 and 2021?

It is very bad idea to push back and squeeze in so many new models in (Year) 2021. I hope and expect otherwise next year and things go accordingly (as before) over the next 17 months.

 

[James]

I had wanted to reply to a lot of posts in this thread, but I'll just say something nice and simple.

It flabbergasts me that there is a possibility although highly rumoured, that the Lexus lineup will not see any redesigns until MY 2022.

It seems awfully inaccurate, but much of these Japanese reports echo this. The RX is understandably far out, the IS, LX, and NX made sense for CY 2020, but I have observed CY 2021 now for the LX and NX, now IS and LQ.

So what is Lexus doing, other than rebadges (LM), refreshes, and facelifts for MY 2020 and 2021?

It is very bad idea to push back and squeeze in so many new models in (Year) 2021. I hope and expect otherwise next year and things go accordingly (as before) over the next 17 months.

Carmaker1 like normal you bring up great points. Sorry about my being excited about 2021 I just think that’s the next year I’m getting a new car would love all this to be out like yesterday lol but the point on what will they bring out is interesting. LS no GS is dead (probably) ES brand new IS old LX we know is a no GX “new” this year RX isn’t that old NX thought was coming soon and then any of the rumored cars who knows rt so yeah great point. One of those that you mentioned or maybe two has to come out. NX and IS makes sense as they would sell the most of those compared to the rest rt? I’m cautiously excited about Lexus but these models need to come out sooner rather than later!

 

[GNS]

Exactly...they need a potent 6 cylinder variant. IS 350 is being squeezed out by such competition in 3.0t Q50, C43, S4(?) and 340i/M340i (over time).

Not to mention:

- Genesis G70
- Upcoming Acura TLX Type-S
- Cadillac CT5-V

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

...Thirdly, I echo disappointment at utilizing the V35A-FTS 3.5L V6...well unchanged that is.

Is that engine at peak performance?...

If Lexus chooses to get more out of the V35A-FTS for performance use (LS 500 already is putting out roughly 119 hp per litre!), then hopefully if there is some compromise in durability (lasting as long) it isn't too obvious.

They explicitly say the software's limiting how quick the engine is in order to impose smoothness, which is something I've long suspected.

I knew it, thank you! I think using that engine in a two-tier format for the IS would make sense.

I've written it ad nauseam both on these forums and in Kaizen Factor articles: with the single prominent exception of the LFA, there seems to be an unofficial corporate edict that no Lexus model will incur the U.S. EPA CAFE Gas Guzzler Penalty, and Toyota/Lexus' distaste for cylinder deactivation further limits their options in that regard. Even without having yet read @Ian Schmidt's link posted above, I'm sure that the LS 500's 416-hp output is dictated in great part by the optimal power-to-weight ratio necessary to avoid the CAFE Guzzler Tax.

A reborn IS F's smaller size and lighter-than-LS curb weight should certainly allow wiggle room for more than 416 hp.

 

[maiaramdan]

Agree on watering down the next ISF under only 1 condition, which is we need another high performance as top of the ladder

 

[GSCT]

The more alarming thing should be the lack of rumor on more electrified options.

Agree wholeheartedly! At least bring the 300h to North America.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I've written it ad nauseam both on these forums and in Kaizen Factor articles: with the single prominent exception of the LFA, there seems to be an unofficial corporate edict that no Lexus model will incur the U.S. EPA CAFE Gas Guzzler Penalty, and Toyota/Lexus' distaste for cylinder deactivation further limits their options in that regard.

That makes sense. The same tuner has a flash available that they claim makes the Lexus 2.0T much, much more powerful, although they don't talk about MPG with it. Interestingly, their Tacoma flash does improve both power and MPG, suggesting Toyota screwed up.

 

[maiaramdan]

My view the IS needs
200+ hp gasoline
300+ hp hybrid
400+ hp gasoline
500+ hp hybrid

That's my view

 

[internalaudit]

I would only go for a hybrid or BEV IS but I am just one household in Canada. Premium gasoline is too expensive compared to the US.

 

[corradoMR2]

Lots of frustration between the many lines in the posts above and I can sadly relate.

As an avid Lexus loyalist, I have succumbed to the competition due to Lexus' complacency in redesigning their vehicles. I switched to a Stinger GT almost 2 years ago (fantastic car) and now moving to a Tesla Model 3. We have the UX and it's a nice small CUV but if the Model 3 proves itself in ownership, we may head fully to Tesla with the Model Y (or other BEV) in a couple of years and our Lexus ownership since early 2000s will sadly come to an end.

Lexus, please don't drag the product line beyond its lifespan when a lot of competition is fierce rolling out excellent vehicles in shorter cycles!

 

[GNS]

Lots of frustration between the many lines in the posts above and I can sadly relate.

As an avid Lexus loyalist, I have succumbed to the competition due to Lexus' complacency in redesigning their vehicles. I switched to a Stinger GT almost 2 years ago (fantastic car) and now moving to a Tesla Model 3. We have the UX and it's a nice small CUV but if the Model 3 proves itself in ownership, we may head fully to Tesla with the Model Y (or other BEV) in a couple of years and our Lexus ownership since early 2000s will sadly come to an end.

Lexus, please don't drag the product line beyond its lifespan when a lot of competition is fierce rolling out excellent vehicles in shorter cycles!

Not going to lie, the Stinger GT (Limited) is on my list, badge be damned. The G70 is also a possibility, and I can go get either right now, but I'm waiting to see if Lexus will come through. Barring that, I'll take a look at the upcoming TLX Type-S.

The number one consideration for my upgrade is something with a turbo 6 cylinder powerplant and AWD, and it should be capable of 0 - 100 kmh in the 4.5 ~ 4.7 second range. After that, it's a matter of choosing one with the best projected reliability, and the price should not exceed the mid-range level (C43/S4/M340i range).

 

[corradoMR2]

Not going to lie, the Stinger GT (Limited) is on my list, badge be damned. The G70 is also a possibility, and I can go get either right now, but I'm waiting to see if Lexus will come through. Barring that, I'll take a look at the upcoming TLX Type-S.

The number one consideration for my upgrade is something with a turbo 6 cylinder powerplant and AWD, and it should be capable of 0 - 100 kmh in the 4.5 ~ 4.7 second range. After that, it's a matter of choosing one with the best projected reliability, and the price should not exceed the mid-range level (C43/S4/M340i range).

Stinger GT AWD Limited can't be beat for the price (50k cdn), performance, quality, practicality, and styling. It turns heads every time I'm on the road. The German cars are nice but 25K more similarly equipped, and more common.

 

[ssun30]

The hardware for a competitive IS-F is already in place. 3.5L+ six cyl with 500+hp are very common place these days. Think the Acura NSX, the Ford GT, the GT-R, and all the 911s. Modern turbo engines don't have to trade drivability, economy, and NVH for power like in the old times. They just need to make sure the calibration is on point, strengthen the bottom end to take the extra torque, and obviously upgrade cooling. They may have to change the intercooler configuration since the current 'interwarmer layout' gives good packaging but won't handle high power well.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly the Stinger for me is the supposed current era Mark-II/Chaser/Cresta

I still have some hope in Toyota / Lexus regarding the next Mark-X based Mazda and the IS

 

[CRSKTN]

Lots of frustration between the many lines in the posts above and I can sadly relate.

As an avid Lexus loyalist, I have succumbed to the competition due to Lexus' complacency in redesigning their vehicles. I switched to a Stinger GT almost 2 years ago (fantastic car) and now moving to a Tesla Model 3. We have the UX and it's a nice small CUV but if the Model 3 proves itself in ownership, we may head fully to Tesla with the Model Y (or other BEV) in a couple of years and our Lexus ownership since early 2000s will sadly come to an end.

Lexus, please don't drag the product line beyond its lifespan when a lot of competition is fierce rolling out excellent vehicles in shorter cycles!

I'm really sorry, but if you're going from a Kia stinger which you consider to be great quality, to then considering a Model 3 makes me wonder why you ever went with a Lexus in the first place?

I've spent time with both of those vehicles. I was not even remotely close to impressed by the build quality, sound system, etc of the Tesla lineup, especially the model 3. The Kia stinger is like any other product trying to be what it's not, which isn't to say it's a bad car. I'm sure it's a great value for some people who want that combination of offerings, but having spent time in Genesis vehicles and the stinger... it's only skin deep.

The moment you start actually interacting with it, I guess unless you're not that particular about stuff, the illusion disappears for me.

I don't want a car with windows that rattle or parts that feel hollow. I don't want to deal with some cobbled together attempt at customer service. I guess I just find it interesting what sort of market Lexus has to deal with.

On one hand, you're expected to compete with these other dedicated luxury brands, while on the other you've somehow attracted a whole host of people who honestly can't distinguish between the inhouse capabilities of Kia and TMC when it comes to producing well built, higher end vehicles.

It must be frustrating and a challenge to deal with.

Again, I apologize if this comes off harsh but I just sort of get flabbergasted sometimes. The idea that people look at the G70 or whatever else and sit it and still walk away impressed just sort of stuns me, but I guess it is all relative.

 

[mediumhot]

That makes sense. The same tuner has a flash available that they claim makes the Lexus 2.0T much, much more powerful, although they don't talk about MPG with it. Interestingly, their Tacoma flash does improve both power and MPG, suggesting Toyota screwed up.

Mappings of turbo engines that improve both performance and fuel efficiency or just performance while fuel efficiency remains unaffected are pretty common on tuner's market but there's a common belief they all introduce excessive wear and tear of components.

Lexus LS powertrain in IS-F does make sense especially with some sort of performance tune but with what exactly do they replace current V6? That rumored 2.4 turbo I4? What is that good for? 300hp/300ft-lb? Such a weird displacement and number of cylinders to go after usual suspects with 3.0 Twin Turbo V6s.

 

[ssun30]

Lexus LS powertrain in IS-F does make sense especially with some sort of performance tune but with what exactly do they replace current V6? That rumored 2.4 turbo I4? What is that good for? 300hp/300ft-lb? Such a weird displacement and number of cylinders to go after usual suspects with 3.0 Twin Turbo V6s.

The 2.4/2.5T is meant to be a competitor to 2.0Ts, just like how the V6 IS350 is priced against competitors' 2.0Ts.