The Future of the IS Thread

[Gecko]

Can we get this back to the IS, please? I'm a little bored with seemingly every thread devolving into some version of "I want Lexus to be exactly like the Germans".

Just cleaned up this thread and moved some posts. 4IS it is :thumbsup:

 

[James]

Can we get this back to the IS, please? I'm a little bored with seemingly every thread devolving into some version of "I want Lexus to be exactly like the Germans".

Lol I want The IS to be be faster!! That’s not directly related to Germans rt?? Anyway IS to me has to be an important model when the new one comes out. If GS is gone we can’t just survive with ES and LS. Let those be luxuary and let The IS be sportier and more aggressive in look and Powertrain. I don’t want a German car if I did I’d go buy one but there are things like 0-60 times and acceleration that Lexus does need to stay in the ball park! I don’t need the fastest car on the block but I like to drive fast and we should at least have the option for a bigger engine in the model line up!

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Lol I want The IS to be be faster!! That’s not directly related to Germans rt??

All I know is almost every time someone makes that complaint they cite some AMG or M and not an Astin Martin or Maserati or even a Caddy.

 

[Carmaker1]

All I know is almost every time someone makes that complaint they cite some AMG or M and not an Astin Martin or Maserati or even a Caddy.

And why is that not a valid complaint, regarding the IS?

Aston Martin and Maserati do not make an IS competitor.

Altezza/IS development all started in the summer of 1993, just a few months after the launch of the Lexus badged GS and early plans being made for the 1998 RX at an spring 1993 Nagoya exec lunch.

The global launch of the W202 C-Class in June-November 1993 and successful BMW E36 3-Series (on the market since early 1991), gave Toyota execs just cause to greenlight development of an entry level RWD sports sedan under the FWD ES 300 sedan, starting in Q1 of 1994 using development code 038T. Primarily focused on the European market initially, where the ES 300 didn't work.

Which car was directly in its targets? Once again, the BMW E36 3-Series sedan (1991-1998). Parallel to that BMW, was developing the successor to that E36, the E46 since mid-1993. Both production designs were approved in 1995, with BMW in spring 1995, Lexus in late 1995.

The E46 3-Series sedan and (XE10) IS 200 debuted about 1 year apart. BMW via a short press release in November 1997 and Spain press event/embargo in February 1998.

The Lexus IS 200 made its debut in early 1999 following JDM Altezza in Q4 1998, launching in March 1999 and July 2000 as the 3.0L IS 300.

Since then, the IS has squarely been a 3-Series competitor in every sense. The LS had not just the S-Class, but American land yachts in its sights and succeeded, by dethroning them all in sales and that of the Ford Panther cars.

Unlike the LS, the IS has always been tied to that as a reliable alternative.

The German American Cadillac Catera didn't exist in 1993 (outside of GM studios) to even inspire an IS sedan nor was it successful while a US market competitor in 2000-01.

The CTS and ATS are not globally a force, yet Cadillac invests in their products via parent company GM, in ways one wants the same for Lexus.

Lexus has the right branding, that Cadillac doesn't to execute and field such a competitor, so one questions why it lags behind in certain areas with the current "New N" model? And any criticism is denounced?

Plus the projection of a longer cycle, seems laughable, if not insulting to put off a GA-L IS into 2021-22 calendar years.

So no one can really admonish anyone for mentioning "the Germans" in this respect. The entry level luxury RWD sedan class has been their arena for too long and Lexus should try changing that.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

And why is that not a valid complaint, regarding the IS?

Primarily, it's because the posts that got moved which I wrote it in response to weren't specifically about the IS (kind of like how these aren't). The thread really had turned into the CL-standard "I'd rather have a bad Benz than a good Lexus" kind of conversation.

 

[Carmaker1]

Primarily, it's because the posts that got moved which I wrote it in response to weren't specifically about the IS (kind of like how these aren't). The thread really had turned into the CL-standard "I'd rather have a bad Benz than a good Lexus" kind of conversation.

Wow, I never got to see that (thankfully). However, why bring up Aston Martin and Maserati, when they have no relevance to the IS model line? That is what I was confused about. The LS (Quattroporte) and LC (Coupe) are the alternatives.

Hopefully all these rumors are fluff and they give one last good try, independent of BMW.

I can accept the Supra, but I don't want BMW to do similar to what MB did to Infiniti with the Q50 diesel and QX30.

The IS really should stay in house.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Hopefully all these rumors are fluff and they give one last good try, independent of BMW.

I can accept the Supra, but I don't want BMW to do similar to what MB did to Infiniti with the Q50 diesel and QX30.

The IS really should stay in-house.

I trust it will, and give these rumors zero credence. Between 7LS, LC and the latest Toyota Crown, they have a great foundation upon which to build the next IS.

 

[GNS]

I find it very hard to believe that Lexus would contemplate using the B58 over an existing powerplant that can make as much hp or more, which is also made in a facility or factory near the plant (no need to ship it from Germany), and was designed to slot into the TNGA platform.

None of it makes sense to me, the logistics of sourcing and shipping the B58 is bad enough, let alone shoehorning a long I6 into a TNGA platform. Maybe I'm missing something here? It just seems like those sites are capitalizing on the Supra details by making click bait statements that they know will spark controversy.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

I find it very hard to believe that Lexus would contemplate using the B58 over an existing powerplant that can make as much hp or more, which is also made in a facility or factory near the plant (no need to ship it from Germany), and was designed to slot into the TNGA platform.

You raise a point I hadn't really thought about: I guess it's much cheaper for Toyota to use and ship the preexisting BMW B58 inline 6 from Germany to Austria (where Z4 and Supra are built) than for Toyota to create an inline 6 as one-and-a-half of one of its 2-liter fours and ship it from Japan to Austria for final Supra assembly.

Then again, those logistics didn't stop Fiat, which ships its 1.4-liter turbo 4 from Italy to Japan for final assembly in the Hiroshima plant that builds the current 124 Spider alongside the Mazda ND Miata.

 

[Carmaker1]

I am really hoping the July 2020 SOP date hasn't become sometime in 2021, because an 8-year life cycle in a competitive market is ridiculous. I can forgive them for some shortcomings, in having to manage New N, which was merely a massaged version of the N platform.

I haven't seen any IS mules, like one did back in 2010 and from April 2012 to September 2012 (replaced by prototypes), so I'm wondering? If nada in 6 weeks time, then it's either not coming or is MY 2022.

 

[GNS]

I'm no industry expert, but doesn't it seem like the luxury compact mid-range sedan market is still getting a substantial amount of upgrades / new entries despite the focus on SUVs and CUVs?

• upcoming Cadillac CT5-V (twin turbo V6)
• Genesis broke into the luxury market with the G70 (3.3T)
• Acura is reviving the Type-S badge (hopefully for the next TLX)
• BMW and MB breaking the 380hp mark with the M340i and C43
• No idea what Audi is doing with the S4 except that they moved to a turbo V6 from a supercharged V6, and ditched the dual clutch for the ZF8
• Infiniti Q50 Red Sport (400hp?)

If anything, it feels like competition in this space is getting hotter and anybody who quits or falls behind too far will find it very hard to catch up again. In light of this, it sounds kind of bad for Lexus to take 8 years (2013 - 2021???) to fully redesign the IS, and they'd better not just stick in the 2GR-FKS and call it a day.

I was watching a review on the 2019 IS350 AWD F-Sport last week and when the reviewer floored it from a stop (merging onto a highway), it just looked and felt slow. There was hardly any reaction from him except for a 'meh' or two, it just didn't look like it excited him. Maybe there are people who like the IS350 because of how it is right now, but if the IS is going to be directly competing with the aforementioned models, a NA V6 will no longer cut it for performance.

 

[internalaudit]

Just give me a 4IS AWD BEV before I am forced to purchase a BMW BEV for the wife.

Here visiting Munich and the BMW Welt experience was underwhelming lol. More cars I can sit in at Candian dealerships.

 

[ssun30]

BMW 330i G20 Fuel Economy Test

This real world fuel economy test of the latest 330i G20 just makes the IS look embarrassingly irrelevant. Look at those consumption numbers, the latest calibration of the B48/ZF8HP combination is 20% more fuel efficient than other downsized 2.0T powertrains. It is almost matching the 300h on the highway. Keep in mind this 330i is also 20% faster than other cars on the same chart and actually deserves a 335i designation.

It's even more impressive that the 440i with the B58 I6 could match consumption of other 2.0T I4s.

This is perfection. BMW is second to none when it comes to powertrain calibration. There are many downsized turbos out there that I absolutely despise, but the B48/58 are just the golden standard. By comparison the 8AR-FTS is neither powerful nor efficient, and the 2GR is way past sell by date. Both the IS300 and 350 are just hopelessly outmatched in this segment.

 

[Will1991]

@ssun30, Toyota does make a proper job with hybrid calibration, maybe they're the best at it.

But I do see what you're saying, Lexus needs to update some core models very soon, and yesterday was a bit late already...

 

[Gecko]

This is perfection. BMW is second to none when it comes to powertrain calibration. There are many downsized turbos out there that I absolutely despise, but the B48/58 are just the golden standard. By comparison the 8AR-FTS is neither powerful nor efficient, and the 2GR is way past sell by date. Both the IS300 and 350 are just hopelessly outmatched in this segment.

Quoted for truth. When you've spent any time driving other premium brand's 2.0Ts - namely BMW and Audi - it becomes immediately clear how outdated and outclassed the 8AR-FTS really is. I give them a pass for that because it was Lexus' first turbo engine, but there needs to be an all-new dynamic force 2.0L turbo 4 to keep up at this point. That engine should basically become Lexus' core workhorse powertrain in NX, RX, IS, ES, RC etc.

 

[maiaramdan]

Dare I say and even in high versions of the UX

 

[ssun30]

Quoted for truth. When you've spent any time driving other premium brand's 2.0Ts - namely BMW and Audi - it becomes immediately clear how outdated and outclassed the 8AR-FTS really is. I give them a pass for that because it was Lexus' first turbo engine, but there needs to be an all-new dynamic force 2.0L turbo 4 to keep up at this point. That engine should basically become Lexus' core workhorse powertrain in NX, RX, IS, ES, RC etc.

From my own experience even the 135kW/184hp 320Li is pretty close to the IS300. Very drivable engine that doesn't make you feel it's turbocharged. The 8AR just bogs even though on paper the turbo should have good response (and that's my problem with this engine, it's so good on paper yet just doesn't work).

I don't quite agree on the 'other premium brand' part. The Audi and Mercedes 2.0Ts aren't as good as the B48 (though still better than the 8AR). There is the '30TFSI' 2.0t for the A4L that's extremely responsive, but it only makes 150hp so what's the point. The second best 2.0T I've driven is the GM LTG, although the ChDM version was known to have a weak crankshaft and couldn't withstand the torque (400Nm) it's rated for.

 

[mikeavelli]

Lexus has to make the new IS all new everything and come with the heat. With the 3 series getting pretty blah reviews its another chance to strike. I think they need to also offer a hybrid in the USA and even something electric. They simply CANNOT offer the same recipe again as things have changed.

On top of that a new IS F is sorely needed to sit on top the brand. The IS F owners to this day are as hardcore as it comes.

 

[krew]

Two Japanese sources are claiming that the Lexus IS sedan may be getting a refresh this year rather than a next-generation model, as was previously reported. The first indication comes from Kuru Mag, with the following translated text:

Seven years have passed since the 30 Series “Lexus IS” appeared in May 2013, so it is time for a full model change, but it will be partially improved in the fall of 2020.
It is said that the reason why the full model change was canceled was that the IS class FR model would be abolished in the future due to the review of the model sold by Lexus .
The main improvements in the next Lexus IS are changes to the exterior and interior design and the setting of new grades and body colors .

This has also been reported by Best Car, who are claiming that the IS will receive a...

[url=https://lexusenthusiast.com/2020/01/08/is-lexus-planning-a-third-refresh-for-the-is-sedan/]Continue reading...

 

[MichaelL]

I look forward to the new IS... can't come soon enough. Is the RC coming at the same time?