The Future of the IS Thread

[internalaudit]

To be honest, I would rather have the 4IS FSport handling/dynamics to be 90% of the G20 330i (stock) while maintaining its reliability record (repairs probably costing 1/3 to 1/4 over a 10 year period).

I think the main gripe is competitors have all migrated to turbo charged engines but I hear the issue with turbo lag is still there but car makers are tinkering to make the lag less noticeable. So now the 3IS feels too lethargic compared to its competitors when it won 1st place in a couple of C/D comparos in 2013 and 2014.

Also fuel efficiency is not very good compared to the competitors as well

I read many manufacturers are moving to 48V mild hybrid systems so they can make use of electronic controlled dampers, water pumps and other gizmos. Since Toyota is a leader in hybrid technology, maybe they should electrify most of the 4IS line up to compete on initial acceleration and MPG. I know Toyota or Lexus hybrids' electronic AWD system isn't as good as their mechanical one but even the exotics are starting to use electrification to get better acceleration. Also the new e-AWD in the RAV4H is said to provide better traction to the rear axle. Toyota should introduce true torque vectoring in the new 4IS hybrid, if that's even possible, haha.

I would really like an 4IS AWD BEV though and I don't mind paying close to fully spec'd out IS350 pricing for one. At least I know I will be saving $2-3k in fuel costs a year since gasoline is more expensive in Canada than it is in most of the United States.

2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport
First place: Habemus Papem!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-lexus-is350-f-sport-page-4

 

[joepac]

To be honest, I would rather have the 4IS FSport handling/dynamics to be 90% of the G20 330i (stock) while maintaining its reliability record (repairs probably costing 1/3 to 1/4 over a 10 year period).

I think the main gripe is competitors have all migrated to turbo charged engines but I hear the issue with turbo lag is still there but car makers are tinkering to make the lag less noticeable. So now the 3IS feels too lethargic compared to its competitors when it won 1st place in a couple of C/D comparos in 2013 and 2014.

Also fuel efficiency is not very good compared to the competitors as well

I read many manufacturers are moving to 48V mild hybrid systems so they can make use of electronic controlled dampers, water pumps and other gizmos. Since Toyota is a leader in hybrid technology, maybe they should electrify most of the 4IS line up to compete on initial acceleration and MPG. I know Toyota or Lexus hybrids' electronic AWD system isn't as good as their mechanical one but even the exotics are starting to use electrification to get better acceleration. Also the new e-AWD in the RAV4H is said to provide better traction to the rear axle. Toyota should introduce true torque vectoring in the new 4IS hybrid, if that's even possible, haha.

I would really like an 4IS AWD BEV though and I don't mind paying close to fully spec'd out IS350 pricing for one. At least I know I will be saving $2-3k in fuel costs a year since gasoline is more expensive in Canada than it is in most of the United States.

2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport
First place: Habemus Papem!
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-lexus-is350-f-sport-page-4

I still have that print issue in my den because it was the first time Lexus esp the IS came up 1st in a comparo that I can remember Lexus should have built on that win... BUT! Lexus rested on their laurels and the IS became a flash in the pan rather than igniting something great.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

My main disappointment/dislike of this rendering is how much the rear door / C-pillar area reminds me of a 1st-gen Mazda3:

Also, some commentary on the numbers suggested here:

Compared to the current model, the next-generation IS length and wheelbase would grow by 4cm, with all other measurements staying the same. Also mentioned is a 2.5L engine with 181 horsepower, which makes absolutely no sense and I’m choosing to ignore.

- That 2850mm (112.2") wheelbase is actually 20mm / 0.8" shorter than the LC coupe's. I don't see Lexus doing that, and would be very surprised to see 4IS on a wheelbase any shorter than the LC's 2870mm / 113". If it grows into a GS replacement role, it may be another 50mm longer than that as on the latest GA-N Toyota Crown (2920mm / 115").

- When it comes to specs beyond exterior dimensions, note that the above refers to the IS 300h (hybrid) version.

- Per the Lexus UK Media Site, 3rd-gen IS 300h kerb weight starts at 1620 kg (3571 lbs). The 1580 kg figure cited above implies that 4IS would be 40 kg (88 lbs) lighter than the current model.

- The 2487cc engine displacement confirms the obvious: the current IS 300h's 2494cc 2AR-FSE hybrid powertrain would give way to the newer Dynamic Force A25A-FXS hybrid unit from the latest Toyota Crown (and, of course, mounted transversely in the latest Toyota Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES 300h).

- As to that 184ps / 181 hp figure, it seems to be a modest increase on the 176 hp rating for the A25A-FXS hybrid as applied in the current ES 300h without taking into account the battery's contribution. (In the 7ES 300h, the official numbers are 176hp engine + 39hp battery = Total hybrid system 215 hp).

 

[GenTenNav]

"the only changes are with the front and rear bumpers, making this rendering seem more like a mid-cycle refresh"

To me the changes on the car are massive, the front and back look completely different, even the swoop on the side is major. The only serious similarity I see is the area where the doors meet the windows. A mid cycle refresh means minimal changes, this is massive and looking at release trends 2021 looks right for a complete redesign. As the article said, there's not much wrong with the current design of the IS, so why not use it as inspiration for the next one?

To be honest though, I hope they fix how the trunk looks. It looks kind of awful - really high up and really straight all the way around. It doesn't fit well with the otherwise angular and sharp (in a curved way) look of the car. Hope they end up with a design of the spoiler area similar to the current gen IS.

Other than that though, I'm liking the look! I did like the side/door area more from the previous magazine drawings from a couple months back.

 

[spwolf]

- Per the Lexus UK Media Site, 3rd-gen IS 300h kerb weight starts at 1620 kg (3571 lbs). The 1580 kg figure cited above implies that 4IS would be 40 kg (88 lbs) lighter than the current model.

There is no need to use UK media site to compare to Japanese specs... Check lexus.jp, and IS300h is listed as 1680 kg and this is what is comparable to Japanese media writings.

https://lexus.jp/models/is/spec_price/specification/is300h/

 

[Rob Grieveson]

Interesting comments the one that stands out for me refers to the interior of the IS. I could not agree more it seriously needs a quality upgrade to get near Audi finish levels. Also agree why the delay? It appears minimal changes overall so bring it on the IS is simply not longer the competitor it used to be in the market place. Come on Lexus get going!

 

[zeusus]

Wasn't that what the IS350 Fsport was for? The "Pre-Sport Model" as you put it? Lexus has failed in this arena. I think the Fsport is a flop because the performance just wasn't there.

You think its a flop because it didn't serve your needs.

In the real world, the IS F Sport is a huge success with overwhelming number of customers opting for the package over base. The success of IS and GS F Sport justified execution of the package into the rest of the models we see today.

Perhaps your brother is just a better driver. :fist:



In other news, the new renderings look good. Current IS still looks good even when put up with competitors of the same year. C class has the worst design in the segment.

 

[ssun30]

- As to that 184ps / 181 hp figure, it seems to be a modest increase on the 176 hp rating for the A25A-FXS hybrid as applied in the current ES 300h without taking into account the battery's contribution. (In the 7ES 300h, the official numbers are 176hp engine + 39hp battery = Total hybrid system 215 hp).

Japan and EU gets higher octane fuel so they can squeeze a few hp out. JDM Crown hybrid already gets the 184PS/181hp A25A-FXS. The extra hp also goes into EU-spec RAV4. Strangely the ES has the same 176hp variant as the 91RON variant for U.S. and China.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

- Per the Lexus UK Media Site, 3rd-gen IS 300h kerb weight starts at 1620 kg (3571 lbs). The 1580 kg figure cited above implies that 4IS would be 40 kg (88 lbs) lighter than the current model.

There is no need to use UK media site to compare to Japanese specs... Check lexus.jp, and IS300h is listed as 1680 kg and this is what is comparable to Japanese media writings.

Agreed. There's several different methods to determine the weight of a vehicle. There's dry weight (completely empty, no fluids), wet weight (all fluids serviced), fuel quantity (empty, half-tank, full-tank), and fully-loaded GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) used in the US. There's also differences in equipment such as safety systems that could vary by regions. All-in-all, it can be rather confusing.

Anyways, 17.4 gallons or ~66l of gasoline would account for 104lb or 47kg difference, assuming 6lb/gal.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

Japan and EU gets higher octane fuel so they can squeeze a few hp out. JDM Crown hybrid already gets the 184PS/181hp A25A-FXS. The extra hp also goes into EU-spec RAV4. Strangely the ES has the same 176hp variant as the 91RON variant for U.S. and China.

I was under the impression that the reason why the US has a lower octane number on the pump is because we use a different standard to test the fuel. Eu/Japan use Research Octane Number (RON) while USA averages that with the Motor Octane Number (MON), which gives a much lower value compared to RON. Generally, our 87/91 is roughly equal to 91/95 in Japan.

edit: Omitting the "an" from the end of "Japan" apparently triggers the profanity filter.

 

[spwolf]

Japan and EU gets higher octane fuel so they can squeeze a few hp out. JDM Crown hybrid already gets the 184PS/181hp A25A-FXS. The extra hp also goes into EU-spec RAV4. Strangely the ES has the same 176hp variant as the 91RON variant for U.S. and China.

i think the difference is in hp measurement, not fuel (at least usually). EPA has revised hp testing procedure maybe 8-10 years ago, and all the hp ratings went down.

 

[Levi]

Looking forward to it. Still think the 2IS is timeless.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

Looking forward to it. Still think the 2IS is timeless.

Gotta agree. The first gen is almost as classy, but has some of that 90s roundness design going on. The 3rd gen is a bit wacky for my taste.

 

[ssun30]

I was under the impression that the reason why the US has a lower octane number on the pump is because we use a different standard to test the fuel. Eu/Japan use Research Octane Number (RON) while USA averages that with the Motor Octane Number (MON), which gives a much lower value compared to RON. Generally, our 87/91 is roughly equal to 91/95 in Japan.

I specifically said 91RON so I don't have to bring up AKI. The point stands, the most prolific fuel type used in US is Regular (91RON), same for China ('92'RON, which is really 91). But EU and Japan has long moved to 95RON as their 'Regular' fuel option and engines in these markets make a few hp more as a result. The exception will be when the engine specifically requires Premium in US, like the 2GR-FSE.

 

[TheNerdyPotato]

I specifically said 91RON so I don't have to bring up AKI. The point stands, the most prolific fuel type used in US is Regular (91RON), same for China ('92'RON, which is really 91). But EU and Japan has long moved to 95RON as their 'Regular' fuel option and engines in these markets make a few hp more as a result. The exception will be when the engine specifically requires Premium in US, like the 2GR-FSE.

Ah, derp. That reminds me that I've read a few articles about the US automakers pushing for 91AKI to be the new regular gas.

 

[joepac]

You think its a flop because it didn't serve your needs.

In the real world, the IS F Sport is a huge success with overwhelming number of customers opting for the package over base. The success of IS and GS F Sport justified execution of the package into the rest of the models we see today.

Perhaps your brother is just a better driver. :fist:



In other news, the new renderings look good. Current IS still looks good even when put up with competitors of the same year. C class has the worst design in the segment.

Did I pee on your lawn bro? Lol damn...

And it was my brother in law...

My point was not about the IS350 Fsport being a flop in sales but in the performance arena (save the win in the C&D article "Habemas Papem"). Is the IS Fsport cars so much better than their non fsport counterparts? It is all marketing. The only option I like about the Fsport IS350 is the gimmicky gauge cluster and maybe the suspension. I own a 2010 IS350 Luxury edition. Almost bought the sport edition (in 2010 this would have been the equivalent to the F sport model as the options were almost identical in 2011 when the fsport debuted) but it lacked cooled seats, the rear sunshade and my ML sound system. And the driving experience was almost identical except for a smidge tighter suspension in the sport. So I went with the luxury model.

I have driven both the 3is fsport and non fsport (both 200t and 350) and can't tell a huge difference though I admit I haven't put either through their paces but in general were near identical to me.

So the fsport may be a success because it sold more but again from a performance standpoint it's negligible In my opinion (can we have those around here?) and when I buy a car it is for my needs.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

If performance is your #1 priority, you'll be happier in a German car. It's just your mechanic will be happier you're in it too ;-)

 

[joepac]

If performance is your #1 priority, you'll be happier in a German car. It's just your mechanic will be happier you're in it too ;-)

Performance is not my #1 priority but it is prob #1. 5 or #2.

That's my dilemma. My 2010 IS350 has been trouble free for 8 years and 88k miles and the performance is pretty good. I'm never selling this car BTW.

I was just hoping lexus followed it up with an upgraded model. I didn't feel the 3IS was enough of a leap over mine that's why I never bought one. Came close though. But yeah I don't do German cars (or any European) anymore because I don't want to put my mechanic's kids through college hahaha.

 

[internalaudit]

Did I pee on your lawn bro? Lol damn...

And it was my brother in law...

My point was not about the IS350 Fsport being a flop in sales but in the performance arena (save the win in the C&D article "Habemas Papem"). Is the IS Fsport cars so much better than their non fsport counterparts? It is all marketing. The only option I like about the Fsport IS350 is the gimmicky gauge cluster and maybe the suspension. I own a 2010 IS350 Luxury edition. Almost bought the sport edition (in 2010 this would have been the equivalent to the F sport model as the options were almost identical in 2011 when the fsport debuted) but it lacked cooled seats, the rear sunshade and my ML sound system. And the driving experience was almost identical except for a smidge tighter suspension in the sport. So I went with the luxury model.

I have driven both the 3is fsport and non fsport (both 200t and 350) and can't tell a huge difference though I admit I haven't put either through their paces but in general were near identical to me.

So the fsport may be a success because it sold more but again from a performance standpoint it's negligible In my opinion (can we have those around here?) and when I buy a car it is for my needs.

Yours was spared of the carbon deposit build up? I think that's one reason I would not consider the 2IS and I guess because I also want ACC but even the 3IS only comes with high speed dynamic cruise control.

And these Lexus vehicles hold their value up in Canada that I would probably just wait for the 4IS and see whether it is worth getting instead of a used 3IS I can still buy extended warranty on.

Too bad the first electric vehicle will be the UX. I wish it was the IS, seeing how the Model 3 sales is doing quite well for now.

 

[joepac]

Yours was spared of the carbon deposit build up? I think that's one reason I would not consider the 2IS and I guess because I also want ACC but even the 3IS only comes with high speed dynamic cruise control.

And these Lexus vehicles hold their value up in Canada that I would probably just wait for the 4IS and see whether it is worth getting instead of a used 3IS I can still buy extended warranty on.

Too bad the first electric vehicle will be the UX. I wish it was the IS, seeing how the Model 3 sales is doing quite well for now.

IIRC 350's didn't have the carbon deposit issue.