REVEALED! 8th Generation Lexus ES Megathread (ES 350h, ES 350e, ES 500e)
- Thread starter Gecko
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Those expensive Chinese BEVs that have those features are actually not selling well.
BYD is successful because it offers affordable, likeable transportation. It charges slow, goes average, autonomous drive is behind the competition, multimedia is not great, etc, etc. But as overall package, it is nice value for money.
All those expensive cars they all try to build, fail with sales.
So yeah, it is built for China, and it will sell well even with high import taxes.
Yangwang U8 sold 7254 last year (a $150k SUV).
Denza Z9 sold 12503 last year.
Yangwang U7 received 12000 orders on its first day.
SU7 Ultra received 15000 orders on its first day, making it by far the best selling super car in the world (unless you don't count it as a super car).
These are not small numbers from Brands that are established for only two years. Are they going to challenge BBA any time soon? Absolutely not. But they are definitely going to hurt second rate brands.
What's important is the existence of these vehicles completely locked Lexus out of the high value market and the new ES will only survive in the ¥300-400k range if we are being optimistic. Before their Shanghai factory comes online they will have to subsidize the ES heavily. Luckily for them Chinese billionaires are still spending stupid amounts of money for the LM so at least they can sustain that strategy for a while.
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The LS is going away 100%
mikeavelli
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The lame youtubers jerk off to the acura tlx drooling and raving over its design and basically ignore how gorgeous the ES is because it’s not as sporty. They are clowns.
This generation ES is just gorgeous. It’s a beautiful car. I think ours was just perfect.
Ur statement is partially true only if they make it a 4-door LC like the sketch suggested but in reality it's nothing like that LOL.
What he stated was neither false nor true; it was a statement of opinion. I happen to agree with him -- the current ES is, in my opinion, a good-looking car.
F1 Silver Arrows
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At least Mazda now is investing more into making actual FR based cars, while Lexus is gradually giving up on making FR based cars.
mikeavelli
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I am behind on two reviews and this is what honestly shocked me. The RWD based CX90 honestly wasn’t much if any sportier than the FWD based TX 350. It certainly is less fun than the TX 500h. It was a hard pill for me to swallow (no diddy) as I prefer RWD. Any differences were negligible. What also shocked me was the I-6 wasn’t much faster or better performing than the I-4. I just wasn’t blown away by the Mazda with performance. MPG was good and inside and out it’s the better looking and more luxurious product.
The Genesis reviews are similar. The G70 is sporty as GV70 when properly equipped but the other models while RWD are more 1990s LS than anything. RWD but not really sporty. The G80 “ coupe” reviews all have lackluster ride and handling points.
I’m not making excuses for Lexus but technology has improved with platforms and AWD so much I highly doubt the average consumer knows or cares about FWD or RWD.
Kelvin2020
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At least the US market will only have one screen
CRSKTN
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One thing that's been on my mind was the lack of an ES 500h F-Sport Performance. It's offered as an option on the RX and TX and even the Crown and Grand Highlander but I thought the ES would've been a no brainer too (especially because the ES would've been sportier than either RX/TX). On a similar note, I think the Camry not having that Hybrid Max powertrain as a TRD/GR Camry is disappointing too.
Remember this line from the press release:
The all-BEV Lexus plan has not changed. They only softened their tone from "no ICE at all by 2030" to "we'll offer legacy ICE/hybrid powertrains as long as customers want them, but the products will be BEV-centric in design". This is actually similar to their recent strategy of intentionally pricing the ICE versions poorly to shift sales to HEVs.
A 500h FSP badge should easily mean sub-4s acceleration in 2025. ES could never reach that level of performance, especially without a six-cylinder - so keep dreaming lol.
edit: I could see a possibility if they use that new 2.0T with 400ps + hybrid - it might get close to that kind of performance. But seeing them recycling that old 2.5 NA 200ps engine again
......it just doesn’t give me much confidence they'll actually pull it off.A 500h FSP badge should easily mean sub-4s acceleration in 2025. ES could never reach that level of performance, especially without a six-cylinder - so keep dreaming lol.
edit: I could see a possibility if they use that new 2.0T with 400ps + hybrid - it might get close to that kind of performance. But seeing them recycling that old 2.5 NA 200ps engine again
RX500h transplant is most likely not gonna happen in new ES because of packaging. RX has bigger capacity motor at the back but at the same time RX probably has more breathing room before it all affects passenger and cargo volume. ES is a tall car so maybe they can fit some performance new spec motor at the back we've not seen before. Most likely they will offer 550e F Sport like in RZ550e but who knows. ES500e is rated at 340hp while RZ500e is rated 380hp so not even that setup is the same.
davidlovelexus
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[Ready to be scolded? Lexus ES Chief Engineer + Chief Designer Respond to Controversy] The 8th generation Lexus ES debuted at the Shanghai Auto Show. Chief Engineer Hirohei Chizu and Chief Designer Yahiko Kumai were interviewed by local media.
Chief Engineer Chizu is good at building sedans and was responsible for the research and development of GS and LS. He came to China alone in January 2020. Chizu: The main market for ES is now in China, but it is not just considering the Chinese market. Lexus has learned the challenging attitude and sense of urgency of Chinese car companies. While retaining the advantages of traditional sedans, ES has a higher sightline and better vision, and raising the body also means that it is more convenient to get on and off the car.
Chief Designer Kumai was involved in the design of FAW Toyota Crown. Kumai believes that although the new ES has changed a lot, it still respects the traditional design of ES, and there are some similarities between the new and old. For example, the previous generation was Shohei Otani in Japan, and the new generation was Shohei Otani after going to the United States (baseball fans can explain). The height of the body increased by 100 mm, which means that the length and width must also increase accordingly. The body has made great efforts to maintain the golden ratio, but the size is close to LS. Qianzu emphasized that increasing the body size means that ES is ready for "complaints from the Japanese market." Sato, the current president of Toyota, who was a Lexus executive at the time, supports a car width of more than 1.9 meters. Part of the reason is that the rear-wheel steering makes the turning radius smaller than the current model. The new ES has more rear space than the LS.
In terms of the interior, which is equally controversial, Lexus pursues exquisiteness and usability. Qianzu hopes that designers will work hard on vision and interior space creation. Xiongjing: ES is different from domestic new energy vehicles in pursuing "visual impact" design. Leiche pursues simplicity and modernity, and every passenger can enjoy comfort. Leiche believes that physical buttons are necessary. Both the steering wheel and the central control use physical buttons, and both buttons will automatically light up when needed. The central control looks like a touch button, but it is actually a physical button with travel.
Chief Engineer Qianzu mentioned that although ES has both pure electric and hybrid versions, similar to the current UX, the new ES is developed and built with the pure electric version first. The ES500e dual-motor acceleration of 5.9 seconds is already on par with sports sedans. In addition, the ES300h 2.5L hybrid version corresponds to Euro 7 emissions.
Qianzu said frankly that although the ES platform is GA-K, electrification is equivalent to a redesign. ES uses a rear multi-link suspension for the first time. The ES chassis does not pursue the performance of full-force driving, but the relaxing feeling when driving easily. Although some people in the company say why not make it more sporty, the ES will not become a sports car. In addition, although there are pure electric and hybrid versions, the tuning makes the driving taste as consistent as possible.
Qianzu also mentioned Akio Toyoda's evaluation of the new ES. The president believes that although the new ES is an electric car, it is still very Lexus and gave a satisfactory evaluation. Finally, Qianzu hopes that users who are tired of driving SUVs will come back to try the new ES, which will definitely be a surprise.
I also experienced the new ES on site, and it still gives people the feeling of a traditional Lexus car. The central control button feels a bit like a mouse click, and the travel is short but very clear. After a few days of calm, I began to be interested in ES.
Chief Engineer Chizu is good at building sedans and was responsible for the research and development of GS and LS. He came to China alone in January 2020. Chizu: The main market for ES is now in China, but it is not just considering the Chinese market. Lexus has learned the challenging attitude and sense of urgency of Chinese car companies. While retaining the advantages of traditional sedans, ES has a higher sightline and better vision, and raising the body also means that it is more convenient to get on and off the car.
Chief Designer Kumai was involved in the design of FAW Toyota Crown. Kumai believes that although the new ES has changed a lot, it still respects the traditional design of ES, and there are some similarities between the new and old. For example, the previous generation was Shohei Otani in Japan, and the new generation was Shohei Otani after going to the United States (baseball fans can explain). The height of the body increased by 100 mm, which means that the length and width must also increase accordingly. The body has made great efforts to maintain the golden ratio, but the size is close to LS. Qianzu emphasized that increasing the body size means that ES is ready for "complaints from the Japanese market." Sato, the current president of Toyota, who was a Lexus executive at the time, supports a car width of more than 1.9 meters. Part of the reason is that the rear-wheel steering makes the turning radius smaller than the current model. The new ES has more rear space than the LS.
In terms of the interior, which is equally controversial, Lexus pursues exquisiteness and usability. Qianzu hopes that designers will work hard on vision and interior space creation. Xiongjing: ES is different from domestic new energy vehicles in pursuing "visual impact" design. Leiche pursues simplicity and modernity, and every passenger can enjoy comfort. Leiche believes that physical buttons are necessary. Both the steering wheel and the central control use physical buttons, and both buttons will automatically light up when needed. The central control looks like a touch button, but it is actually a physical button with travel.
Chief Engineer Qianzu mentioned that although ES has both pure electric and hybrid versions, similar to the current UX, the new ES is developed and built with the pure electric version first. The ES500e dual-motor acceleration of 5.9 seconds is already on par with sports sedans. In addition, the ES300h 2.5L hybrid version corresponds to Euro 7 emissions.
Qianzu said frankly that although the ES platform is GA-K, electrification is equivalent to a redesign. ES uses a rear multi-link suspension for the first time. The ES chassis does not pursue the performance of full-force driving, but the relaxing feeling when driving easily. Although some people in the company say why not make it more sporty, the ES will not become a sports car. In addition, although there are pure electric and hybrid versions, the tuning makes the driving taste as consistent as possible.
Qianzu also mentioned Akio Toyoda's evaluation of the new ES. The president believes that although the new ES is an electric car, it is still very Lexus and gave a satisfactory evaluation. Finally, Qianzu hopes that users who are tired of driving SUVs will come back to try the new ES, which will definitely be a surprise.
I also experienced the new ES on site, and it still gives people the feeling of a traditional Lexus car. The central control button feels a bit like a mouse click, and the travel is short but very clear. After a few days of calm, I began to be interested in ES.