REVEALED! 8th Generation Lexus ES Megathread (ES 350h, ES 350e, ES 500e)

[Will1991]

Like the CHR EV, will this come with an automatic LSD?

Not sure, but you need to be on LSD to think it's a improvement on looks...

7ES was a design homerun!

@ssun30 is that a Toyota R&D or is it another mixed brand effort?

 

[ssun30]

Not sure, but you need to be on LSD to think it's a improvement on looks...

7ES was a design homerun!

@ssun30 is that a Toyota R&D or is it another mixed brand effort?

It sits on the border between OEM and ODM. It seems to be based on the GAC Hyptec GT but the wheelbase and powertrain don't match up. GAC parts bin can be found in the interior (steering wheel, switch gear, dashboard). So I think GAC provided the skateboard platform, then Toyota IEM (former TMEC) integrated solutions from other suppliers to the final product (e.g. powertrain is Huawei DriveOne). So it's less "rebadge" than BZ3/BZ3X but not a Toyota-led original effort like BZ4X either.

GAC is one of the main losers in the Chinese BEV race. Their in-house brands are losing market share every month, so they are basically becoming a platform provider for JVs.

 

[ssun30]

Without going too much into discussion this is all ODM stuff and Chinese marketing lives and thrives on spec sheet and no one cares if it works properly or not. I am not defending 8ES as it's probably two generations behind than BZ7 in features but BZ7 Chinese spec would never pass mandatory stuff in neither EU nor US as is. Chinese L3 has zero chance of passing EU General Safety Regulation especially when it comes to privacy, public safety etc.

Well, the 7ES is the one that ranked last in its class in independently conducted safety tests in China. You can find the video I reposted on this site. Toyota is the brand that designs products for minimal regulations compliance whether they are doing ODM or OEM or vertically integrated, in China or in SEA or in NA. Remember when they cheaped out on passenger-side crash structure because IIHS only did small overlap test on the driver side?

 

[spwolf]

At least on paper the BZ7 is not just way ahead of the 8ES, but in China it's among the most competitive at its price point. Toyota's BEV strategy in China is actually working: left other foreign brands in the dust, goes toe-to-toe with indigenous brands.

all true if it sells. Paper specs are easiest in China.

 

[Gecko]

I don't remember the last time a Lexus got drug so hard by the media and the public. Every single article, IG post, FB post... people HATE this ES.

We frequently talk about the disparity between enthusiasts vs. business cases and the car buying public, but it feels to me like the backlash against the ES is coming from everywhere. I won't be surprised if there ends up being an emergency refresh of some sort, but I'm not sure how much of that shape can be fixed cheaply/easily.

 

[LCLFV]

Funny thing is... Chinese online audiences are very lukewarm on it too. Look through the comments in this video.


If this is the reaction of the market this car was tailor made for, yikes.

 

[Gecko]

^This is what scares me. The story was that other markets had to take the hit because this was the car China had to have... but specs are not competitive at all, and the Chinese reception seems quite cold.

Who, again, is this ES for?

 

[ssun30]

That video is Taiwanese. But it's not well received in the mainland either. Most negative comments are on the design.

Here are some top comments from the preview videos on social media:
"A pano roof without sun shade? Did you do any market research?" (context: Lexus is most popular in Catonese speaking areas, which can get very hot in summer)
"I will pay at best ¥90k ($15k) for this. No brand prestige. No features and poor specs. What for?" (Lexus has slashed prices to ¥200k ($30k) but still couldn't stop the bleed)
"You can call it FS or CS or anything. Calling it ES is destroying your own brand"
"The moment I saw the 8ES, I know it's time to give up on the brand"
"The Crown sedan also looks bulky from the side, but it's beautiful! With this exterior design, it will suffer the same fate as LS: cancelled"

 

[ssun30]

^This is what scares me. The story was that other markets had to take the hit because this was the car China had to have... but specs are not competitive at all, and the Chinese reception seems quite cold.

Who, again, is this ES for?

Lexus clearly didn't do their homework when researching for the Chinese market.

They naively think it's all about the space. But that's only part of the equation. Chinese luxury car buyers like long, sleek designs with short overhangs, sloping roof and low ride height, basically a "GT-like" design. That's why all the indigenous brands design their flagships as "LWB 4 door coupe". The long overhang, cab forward, tall roof designs are associated with the VW Santana taxicabs that dominated Chinese streets in the 90s and 00s, yet Lexus built exactly that.

The 7ES was a hit because at least the design language is coherent. But the Crown Sedan is what the market really wants. Many buyers really want it but are unfortunately turned away by the lack of space.