REVEALED! 8th Generation Lexus ES Megathread (ES 350h, ES 350e, ES 500e)
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It sits on the border between OEM and ODM. It seems to be based on the GAC Hyptec GT but the wheelbase and powertrain don't match up. GAC parts bin can be found in the interior (steering wheel, switch gear, dashboard). So I think GAC provided the skateboard platform, then Toyota IEM (former TMEC) integrated solutions from other suppliers to the final product (e.g. powertrain is Huawei DriveOne). So it's less "rebadge" than BZ3/BZ3X but not a Toyota-led original effort like BZ4X either.
GAC is one of the main losers in the Chinese BEV race. Their in-house brands are losing market share every month, so they are basically becoming a platform provider for JVs.
Well, the 7ES is the one that ranked last in its class in independently conducted safety tests in China. You can find the video I reposted on this site. Toyota is the brand that designs products for minimal regulations compliance whether they are doing ODM or OEM or vertically integrated, in China or in SEA or in NA. Remember when they cheaped out on passenger-side crash structure because IIHS only did small overlap test on the driver side?
all true if it sells. Paper specs are easiest in China.
Gecko
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I don't remember the last time a Lexus got drug so hard by the media and the public. Every single article, IG post, FB post... people HATE this ES.
We frequently talk about the disparity between enthusiasts vs. business cases and the car buying public, but it feels to me like the backlash against the ES is coming from everywhere. I won't be surprised if there ends up being an emergency refresh of some sort, but I'm not sure how much of that shape can be fixed cheaply/easily.
We frequently talk about the disparity between enthusiasts vs. business cases and the car buying public, but it feels to me like the backlash against the ES is coming from everywhere. I won't be surprised if there ends up being an emergency refresh of some sort, but I'm not sure how much of that shape can be fixed cheaply/easily.
That video is Taiwanese. But it's not well received in the mainland either. Most negative comments are on the design.
Here are some top comments from the preview videos on social media:
"A pano roof without sun shade? Did you do any market research?" (context: Lexus is most popular in Catonese speaking areas, which can get very hot in summer)
"I will pay at best ¥90k ($15k) for this. No brand prestige. No features and poor specs. What for?" (Lexus has slashed prices to ¥200k ($30k) but still couldn't stop the bleed)
"You can call it FS or CS or anything. Calling it ES is destroying your own brand"
"The moment I saw the 8ES, I know it's time to give up on the brand"
"The Crown sedan also looks bulky from the side, but it's beautiful! With this exterior design, it will suffer the same fate as LS: cancelled"
Here are some top comments from the preview videos on social media:
"A pano roof without sun shade? Did you do any market research?" (context: Lexus is most popular in Catonese speaking areas, which can get very hot in summer)
"I will pay at best ¥90k ($15k) for this. No brand prestige. No features and poor specs. What for?" (Lexus has slashed prices to ¥200k ($30k) but still couldn't stop the bleed)
"You can call it FS or CS or anything. Calling it ES is destroying your own brand"
"The moment I saw the 8ES, I know it's time to give up on the brand"
"The Crown sedan also looks bulky from the side, but it's beautiful! With this exterior design, it will suffer the same fate as LS: cancelled"
Lexus clearly didn't do their homework when researching for the Chinese market.
They naively think it's all about the space. But that's only part of the equation. Chinese luxury car buyers like long, sleek designs with short overhangs, sloping roof and low ride height, basically a "GT-like" design. That's why all the indigenous brands design their flagships as "LWB 4 door coupe". The long overhang, cab forward, tall roof designs are associated with the VW Santana taxicabs that dominated Chinese streets in the 90s and 00s, yet Lexus built exactly that.
The 7ES was a hit because at least the design language is coherent. But the Crown Sedan is what the market really wants. Many buyers really want it but are unfortunately turned away by the lack of space.
mikeavelli
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Damn the volvo is nice. I always said a fridge should be offered in every Lexus as an option. Such a useful option.
Used to be available in the crown in japan until the 13th gen along with air suspension but got culled with the 14th gen
You sure it’s just one size up and not like several sizes bigger lol? Now you see how far behind they really are? It’s either those “luxed-up” SUVs or straight-up reskinned old models. The target audience is crystal clear: “Yeah, we’re gonna half-ass it - if you don’t like it, gtfo.”
The packaging efficiency is night and day:
8ES. For whatever reason Toyota insists that the ESU is a high-maintenance item that needs to be accessible from the engine bay, or they just did a terrible job integrating it into the battery unit (it doesn't even need to be in the housing).
i3 NA0. Still not a true skateboard architecture but I believe this is as good as you can get with a BEV/ICEV hybrid platform.
TBF the i3 is very stubby because they have a really thick battery pack. It's also 1 generation ahead of the 8ES battery so 108kWh isn't that hard in a 2900mm wheelbase. The 8ES is essentially a bZ4X sedan with updated gen-2 eAxle that Blue Nexus originally planned for 2022. 2025 should be gen-3 but that is apparently pushed back to the IS EV that will come in 2028 at the earliest. That being said, if BestCar's rendering and specs for the IS EV were true, the i3 would be in a lot of trouble.
I really hope the ICEV 3-series removes the thick floor the i3 so it doesn't look so stubby. But BMW didn't do that on the 5-series.
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Gor134
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ICEV 3er will be unrelated to the i3.
It's essentially going to be a heavy rework of the ICE G20 3er whereas this i3 is on a standalone all new EV "Neue Klasse" architecture.
Sometimes I wonder if the raised ride height is on purpose because people want crossovers and if sedans can't beat them.... you know how it goes. New ES is basically a crossover coupe.
I3 and IX3 look almost the same height, you could even argue that the the i3 is a "coupe" version of the iX3. Or you can call the iX3 a wagon or hatchback.
I3 and IX3 look almost the same height, you could even argue that the the i3 is a "coupe" version of the iX3. Or you can call the iX3 a wagon or hatchback.
There are multiple reasons. From the technical side it's suspension travel. Modern BEVs are very heavy (they are roughly equivalent to a 1990s full-size BOF SUV) and the ultra low profile tires don't provide much damping. The suspension travel needs to be longer to absorb the shock otherwise you have very rough ride, hence the raised ride height.
The reason for ES/Crown Cross being so tall is due to their buyer demographics being too old to get into/out of a traditional low-riding sedan (Toyota said so themselves). Midsize+ luxury sedans are generally bought by old people.
Lol first question, that “1000 km range” is based on what, WLTP, NEDC, or CLTC? If it’s NEDC then yeah… BMW’s probably laughing their ass off already!!
But honestly, just seeing “1000+ km + SSB + TMC” all in one line should be a red flag right away, it's too good to be true!