Gor134

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Do you all think Lexus Electrified Sport Concept will eventually go into production, or will it remain just a concept like the LF-1?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the first ToyoLex to feature solid state batteries.

Would make sense to have a flagship super/hypercar debut that technology and trickle it down to other models (perhaps.. this is wishful speculation.. but perhaps it will be closely followed by a reimaginged EV Flagship lineup using that tech, new LS and SUV?)
 

internalaudit

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^ the target market is much smaller and it's the brand alienating the prospective target audience because of the choice of car they bring to market, not the car.

I don't think the car can alienate people. Learn to read properly lol. I can't believe I am surrounded by some goofs and idiots on this forum.

"Why alienate people who don't care about two door two-seaters?"
 

CRSKTN

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the target market is much smaller and it's the brand alienating the prospective target audience because of the choice of car they bring to market, not the car.
"Benz has a 2 door car, i no longer have any interest in this SUV they sell"

This is literally the opposite of how it works, people walk in, see the fun stuff and settle for the SUV

Learn to read properly lol. I can't believe I am surrounded by some goofs and idiots on this forum.

"Why alienate people who don't care about two door two-seaters?"

Maybe learn the language properly, it would help.🤷‍♂️
 

internalaudit

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"Benz has a 2 door car, i no longer have any interest in this SUV they sell"



Maybe learn the language properly, it would help.🤷‍♂️
You are definitely the idiot and like to put words in other people's mouth. I did not say the car alienated people. That's 100% true.

Should have left you on my ignore list. Surprised some one as smart as you can even afford a Lexus. What do you have to offer the community or your employer but stupid remarks that have no foundation to stand on?
 

CRSKTN

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You are definitely the idiot. I did not say the car alienated people.

Should have left you on my ignore list. Surprised some one as smart as you can even afford a Lexus. What do you have to offer the community or your employer but stupid remarks that have no foundation to stand on?
I don't work for other people and these cars don't cost that much 🤷‍♂️
 

bogglo

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Me either. Why alienate people who don't care about two door two-seaters.

Hoping these come with solid state batteries or the wait is still on beyond 2027.
😄😄😄
Why alienate the prospective target audience because of the choice of car they bring to market, not the car.
or
Why alienate people who care about two door two-seaters


Stop calling people make names when you are in the wrong.
 

internalaudit

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😄😄😄
Why alienate the prospective target audience because of the choice of car they bring to market, not the car.
or
Why alienate people who care about two door two-seaters


Stop calling people make names when you are in the wrong.
whatever, you guys are misinterpreting posts that are so short that I don't know how you guys take on more complex sentences and paragraphs in real iife lol.

Creating a very niche product like a two-door BEV actually alienates a lot of would-be Lexus BEV buyers. How do I know, because I don't care about two door vehicles as they're impractical, I know because I have a Accord coupe. You guys have to get your minds checked out soon if you can't even understand that.

Here's the definition. Someone who can't follow simple posts has got to be one.

id·i·ot
/ˈidēət/

noun
  1. a stupid person.
 
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ssun30

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Do you all think Lexus Electrified Sport Concept will eventually go into production, or will it remain just a concept like the LF-1? Perhaps the twin-turbo V8 supercar originally intended for the Lexus LFR has now been replaced by an electric version, using the LFR name instead. Even if it does get produced, will there actually be a market for it? I can hardly imagine anyone who would buy an electric supercar.
Unless the solid state battery pack has such high energy density that it can reduce the weight to under 2 tons and set a sub-7 time at Nordschleife, I don't see how marketable it can be.

People more or less accept BEVs as muscle cars that are only good at straight line performance. Whether it's a 2 door coupe or 4 door sedan it will have more than enough power to break traction on all 4 tires. There will be a dozen of BEVs reaching the 1.8s 0-100km/h physical limit by 2028. But if it wants to be considered a proper supercar it either needs really good track performance or really high top speed or a combination of both.

What's more concerning is that Lexus has zero know-how on how to make highly integrated and efficient "three electrics" systems (battery, power electronics, motor). The "new" ES BEV is ~2022 tech level in 2025. By 2028 the current 800V systems, which Lexus still haven't mastered, will be obsolete on those flagship EVs. They are still stuck on 3-in-1 eAxles (motor, inverter, reduction gear) when the industry moved on to 5-in-1 (motor, inverter, heat management, multiratio transmission, torque vectoring). They still have zero knowledge of cell-to-chassis battery integration and likely never use it because they will somehow insist this "supercar" must have similar reparability as a commuter car.

Lexus would have to overcome a similar level of technology gap as the original LFA for this project. But I highly doubt they would put in the same level of effort and budget into it. TBH they have a better chance letting their Chinese branch handle the development.
 
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sl0519

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Unless the solid state battery pack has such high energy density that it can reduce the weight to under 2 tons and set a sub-7 time at Nordschleife, I don't see how marketable it can be.

People more or less accept BEVs as muscle cars that are only good at straight line performance. Whether it's a 2 door coupe or 4 door sedan it will have more than enough power to break traction on all 4 tires. There will be a dozen of BEVs reaching the 1.8s 0-100km/h physical limit by 2028. But if it wants to be considered a proper supercar it either needs really good track performance or really high top speed or a combination of both.

What's more concerning is that Lexus has zero know-how on how to make highly integrated and efficient "three electrics" systems (battery, power electronics, motor). The "new" ES BEV is ~2022 tech level in 2025. By 2028 the current 800V systems, which Lexus still haven't mastered, will be obsolete on those flagship EVs. They are still stuck on 3-in-1 eAxles (motor, inverter, reduction gear) when the industry moved on to 5-in-1 (motor, inverter, heat management, multiratio transmission, torque vectoring). They still have zero knowledge of cell-to-chassis battery integration and likely never use it because they will somehow insist this "supercar" must have similar reparability as a commuter car.

Lexus would have to overcome a similar level of technology gap as the original LFA for this project. But I highly doubt they would put in the same level of effort and budget into it. TBH they have a better chance letting their Chinese branch handle the development.

The industry moves on to turbos, Lexus: let’s double down on NA.
Others keep rolling out V8s, Lexus: let’s kill the V8.
Everyone’s updating their inline-6s, Lexus: nah, just recycle the old 4-banger.
Carmakers are pushing out performance cars, RWD platforms… Lexus: let’s go the other way and slap Toyota badges on everything FWD.
While others offer a diverse lineup - SUVs, sedans, coupes, Lexus is like: LEXSUV all the way!
And the saddest part? They're lagging so far behind in EVs too…
Sigh. I don’t even wanna talk about it anymore.
 

Tyronne M

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Sadly I just think it is time for Lexus Enthusiasts to just move on (even if there is no better brand to move on to :().

30 years ago I became such a mad Lexus fan (still recall going crazy when I saw a LS parked at my University 25 years ago). Have owned 2 LS's (a 2009 LS460 and a 2018 LS500) and was eagerly awaiting the next incarnation of the LS. However just about everything from Lexus in the last few years (probably apart from the LC) has been an utter disappointment. Lexus has lost it's direction. Probably more focused on making profits than building amazing cars.

Personally for me, I think I will just purchase a 2025 LS and then just forget about this brand. There is just no point hoping that they will bring anything new and truly exciting to the market. They are going in the direction of the new ES which is just so utterly boring.

Lexus's glory days appear to be over!
 

ssun30

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I have been given a post-LCI G20 330i M Sport as a loaner for a few days while my 440i is being serviced. And I have to say if you want a "good Lexus" today, buy a BMW. But that's not really a compliment.

The post-LCI G20 feels very soft. Steering is completely filtered and super light even in Sport Plus mode. There is almost no feedback from the road. It reminds me of the ES more than previous gen 3 series. It's definitely one of the most soulless BMWs I've driven. If you want good interior fit and finish, BMW is still quite a distance away. They can't match the feel of buttons and switches on a typical Lexus, but Lexus are getting rid of their buttons anyway.

What you do get better is a good powertrain. The B48 with 48V mild hybrid works really well. There's very little delay and vibration from the start-stop system, and it lets you creep at low speed for quite a while. Overall NVH is better than any 4-cylinder powertrain Lexus has to offer. The acceleration is decent and nothing compares to the ZF8 in smoothness with only slightly noticeable jerkiness from 2-1 downshift. Fuel efficiency is amazing. As a sampler I drove it pretty hard, but still managed to get 39.2 MPG (6.0L/100km) over about 100mi/160km of mixed road driving. I wish I was given a X330 instead so I can directly compare its fuel efficiency with the RX350 that I drove last year.

I already like the 12V Efficient Dynamcis micro-hybrid system on the F series, and the 48V system is way beyond my expectations (considering my poor previous experience with MB and Audi's 48V). It's still far away from the ES300h where my average over 60000km was only 4.7L/100km, so I hope BMW can make some sort of breakthrough in hybrid tech soon.

Overall I would say a post-LCI G20 330 is a sidegrade over a similarly priced Lexus. I think what makes Lexus still very relevant today is they have some decisive advantages in some aspects, namely the fuel efficiency of hybrid models and standard LSS on every product. What they skimp on passive safety they make up in active safety, and you can't say that's not a smart decision, since prevention is always better than protection.
 

sl0519

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I have been given a post-LCI G20 330i M Sport as a loaner for a few days while my 440i is being serviced. And I have to say if you want a "good Lexus" today, buy a BMW. But that's not really a compliment.

The post-LCI G20 feels very soft. Steering is completely filtered and super light even in Sport Plus mode. There is almost no feedback from the road. It reminds me of the ES more than previous gen 3 series. It's definitely one of the most soulless BMWs I've driven. If you want good interior fit and finish, BMW is still quite a distance away. They can't match the feel of buttons and switches on a typical Lexus, but Lexus are getting rid of their buttons anyway.

What you do get better is a good powertrain. The B48 with 48V mild hybrid works really well. There's very little delay and vibration from the start-stop system, and it lets you creep at low speed for quite a while. Overall NVH is better than any 4-cylinder powertrain Lexus has to offer. The acceleration is decent and nothing compares to the ZF8 in smoothness with only slightly noticeable jerkiness from 2-1 downshift. Fuel efficiency is amazing. As a sampler I drove it pretty hard, but still managed to get 39.2 MPG (6.0L/100km) over about 100mi/160km of mixed road driving. I wish I was given a X330 instead so I can directly compare its fuel efficiency with the RX350 that I drove last year.

I already like the 12V Efficient Dynamcis micro-hybrid system on the F series, and the 48V system is way beyond my expectations (considering my poor previous experience with MB and Audi's 48V). It's still far away from the ES300h where my average over 60000km was only 4.7L/100km, so I hope BMW can make some sort of breakthrough in hybrid tech soon.

Overall I would say a post-LCI G20 330 is a sidegrade over a similarly priced Lexus. I think what makes Lexus still very relevant today is they have some decisive advantages in some aspects, namely the fuel efficiency of hybrid models and standard LSS on every product. What they skimp on passive safety they make up in active safety, and you can't say that's not a smart decision, since prevention is always better than protection.

Everyone already knows all this, and yet those execs are still sitting pretty, living the good life. It’s always the same old slogans, “Experience Amazing,” “Anything but Boring”- just empty words they keep throwing around to fool all of us. They know exactly what’s going on but choose to do nothing. As one of the few remaining enthusiasts, sadly there's not much we can do. All we can do is go out and support other brands. Lexus just isn’t the same brand we once knew before.
 

carguy420

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I have been given a post-LCI G20 330i M Sport as a loaner for a few days while my 440i is being serviced. And I have to say if you want a "good Lexus" today, buy a BMW. But that's not really a compliment.

The post-LCI G20 feels very soft. Steering is completely filtered and super light even in Sport Plus mode. There is almost no feedback from the road. It reminds me of the ES more than previous gen 3 series. It's definitely one of the most soulless BMWs I've driven. If you want good interior fit and finish, BMW is still quite a distance away. They can't match the feel of buttons and switches on a typical Lexus, but Lexus are getting rid of their buttons anyway.

What you do get better is a good powertrain. The B48 with 48V mild hybrid works really well. There's very little delay and vibration from the start-stop system, and it lets you creep at low speed for quite a while. Overall NVH is better than any 4-cylinder powertrain Lexus has to offer. The acceleration is decent and nothing compares to the ZF8 in smoothness with only slightly noticeable jerkiness from 2-1 downshift. Fuel efficiency is amazing. As a sampler I drove it pretty hard, but still managed to get 39.2 MPG (6.0L/100km) over about 100mi/160km of mixed road driving. I wish I was given a X330 instead so I can directly compare its fuel efficiency with the RX350 that I drove last year.

I already like the 12V Efficient Dynamcis micro-hybrid system on the F series, and the 48V system is way beyond my expectations (considering my poor previous experience with MB and Audi's 48V). It's still far away from the ES300h where my average over 60000km was only 4.7L/100km, so I hope BMW can make some sort of breakthrough in hybrid tech soon.

Overall I would say a post-LCI G20 330 is a sidegrade over a similarly priced Lexus. I think what makes Lexus still very relevant today is they have some decisive advantages in some aspects, namely the fuel efficiency of hybrid models and standard LSS on every product. What they skimp on passive safety they make up in active safety, and you can't say that's not a smart decision, since prevention is always better than protection.
Many regular people complained that the pre-LCI G20 330i M-sport was "too sporty" and "too comfortable", and now we're back to the soft and numb feeling that many car enthusiasts hate about many modern BMWs. When BMW finally wanted to please their car enthusiasts fans, a whole bunch of complaints from the normies is what BMW got in return instead smh. Don't blame BMW if they no longer make a truly sporty regular 3 series anymore.

Also, the one big stuck on screen on the dashboard of the post-LCI G20 3 series is f@cking hideous compared to the pre-LCI dashboard.

BMW engines paired with series-parallel hybrid system would be awesome though.
 

Gecko

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The industry moves on to turbos, Lexus: let’s double down on NA.
Others keep rolling out V8s, Lexus: let’s kill the V8.
Everyone’s updating their inline-6s, Lexus: nah, just recycle the old 4-banger.
Carmakers are pushing out performance cars, RWD platforms… Lexus: let’s go the other way and slap Toyota badges on everything FWD.
While others offer a diverse lineup - SUVs, sedans, coupes, Lexus is like: LEXSUV all the way!
And the saddest part? They're lagging so far behind in EVs too…
Sigh. I don’t even wanna talk about it anymore.

This is a good summary, and I'm pretty much in the same spot as well. For 10+ years now Toyota has been content to see just how little investment they can make in Lexus, but still make profit on the other side. I understand this is a business and the goal is to make money, but Lexus has wholly abandoned the notion of making great or class leading cars in any way. Everything now is "good enough" which is so different from the Lexus that many of us grew to love in the 90s, 2000s, and early 2010s... and that's what makes letting go so challenging. The new Lexus ecosystem and product portfolio is almost entirely centered around Toyota- or FWD-based platform engineered exercises.

Lexus has been late, lackluster, or completely absent on:
- Forced induction
- V8s
- Performance cars
- Performance CUVs
- Performance hybrids
- RWD
- EVs
- Technology
- Flagship luxury advancement

Everything changes, Lexus too I guess.
 

mediumhot

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whatever, you guys are misinterpreting posts that are so short that I don't know how you guys take on more complex sentences and paragraphs in real iife lol.

Creating a very niche product like a two-door BEV actually alienates a lot of would-be Lexus BEV buyers. How do I know, because I don't care about two door vehicles as they're impractical, I know because I have a Accord coupe. You guys have to get your minds checked out soon if you can't even understand that.

The only thing that's gonna alienate potential Lexus BEV buyers is poor BEV product like UX300e or RZ450e. US dealers straight out refuse to sell any RZs cause they are afraid of the backlash. Funny thing is that RZ450e is the only four door they have right now that drives closest to now defunct 4GS. It drives miles better than gas or hybrid ES.
 

ssun30

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Many regular people complained that the pre-LCI G20 330i M-sport was "too sporty" and "too comfortable", and now we're back to the soft and numb feeling that many car enthusiasts hate about many modern BMWs. When BMW finally wanted to please their car enthusiasts fans, a whole bunch of complaints from the normies is what BMW got in return instead smh. Don't blame BMW if they no longer make a truly sporty regular 3 series anymore.

Also, the one big stuck on screen on the dashboard of the post-LCI G20 3 series is f@cking hideous compared to the pre-LCI dashboard.

BMW engines paired with series-parallel hybrid system would be awesome though.
I'm okay with their focus on NVH because ultimately that's what luxury is about. The G series are much more refined and quieter than the F series.

What's unacceptable is the steering. I think the problem here is "normal" people think quick and light steering is "good handling". Turn the steering wheel with little force and the car steers a lot = good handling car. Similarly they think a top-heavy throttle mapping = powerful car, and a bottom heavy throttle mapping = good fuel efficiency. But in reality true sportiness means the car responds linearly to driver's input and giving enough feedback from the road and the feel of being in control.
 

carguy420

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I'm okay with their focus on NVH because ultimately that's what luxury is about. The G series are much more refined and quieter than the F series.

What's unacceptable is the steering. I think the problem here is "normal" people think quick and light steering is "good handling". Turn the steering wheel with little force and the car steers a lot = good handling car. Similarly they think a top-heavy throttle mapping = powerful car, and a bottom heavy throttle mapping = good fuel efficiency. But in reality true sportiness means the car responds linearly to driver's input and giving enough feedback from the road and the feel of being in control.
Another one is overly sensitive brakes. Many regular people seem to think brakes that bite really hard when you just gently press the brake pedal equals to having really powerful brakes. All these components in cars becoming less mechanical and more electronically controlled have allowed car manufacturers to dial in all these non-linear controls to either trick people or to please normal people's weird perceptions about how a good driving car should be like. I've driven a Porsche Macan and the brake tuning is absolutely crap, there's a dead spot on the very top part of the brake pedal's travel and when you press the brake pedal a little bit more, you'll suddenly get too much braking. Meanwhile, a humble Mazda CX-5 has linear and easy to modulate brakes.
 

CRSKTN

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Another one is overly sensitive brakes. Many regular people seem to think brakes that bite really hard when you just gently press the brake pedal equals to having really powerful brakes. All these components in cars becoming less mechanical and more electronically controlled have allowed car manufacturers to dial in all these non-linear controls to either trick people or to please normal people's weird perceptions about how a good driving car should be like. I've driven a Porsche Macan and the brake tuning is absolutely crap, there's a dead spot on the very top part of the brake pedal's travel and when you press the brake pedal a little bit more, you'll suddenly get too much braking. Meanwhile, a humble Mazda CX-5 has linear and easy to modulate brakes.

I absolutely believe that Porsche SUVs sell to unsophisticated overcapitalized people.