Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[James]

I just want to know if you get rid of all your sedans where are all the updated SUVs then? I mean they have so many holes across their lineup it's honestly ridiculous. You can say the GS/IS isn't making money and you need more SUVs well then why haven't you updated them? The SUVs have been old for years already.

 

[Will1991]

@James, I don't agree with you.

Currently most of Lexus SUV's are in a normal product life cycle:
UX, introduced in 2018 as a MY2019, it's 2 years old and is rumored to have a facelift by 2021
NX, introduced in 2014 as a MY2015, it's 6 years old, received a facelift in 2017 and is rumored to be replaced by 2021
RX, introduced in 2015 as a MY2016, it's 5 years old, received a facelift in 2019 and is rumored to be replaced by 2022

They were introduced in a changing market but they're in a pretty normal product life cycle.

We can say it was bad luck for Lexus to launch them during a market change or we can say Lexus failed to properly understand were the market was going... But we can't say they aren't keeping them properly updated.

GX and LX will change drastically and they are not global products, it's a specialty product for a niche market and sales keeps proving they're up to date with the competition. X5's, GLE's, Q8's clearly aren't the direct competition. Also, Lexus keeps launching updated versions of them.

 

[Gecko]

@James, I don't agree with you.

Currently most of Lexus SUV's are in a normal product life cycle:
UX, introduced in 2018 as a MY2019, it's 2 years old and is rumored to have a facelift by 2021
NX, introduced in 2014 as a MY2015, it's 6 years old, received a facelift in 2017 and is rumored to be replaced by 2021
RX, introduced in 2015 as a MY2016, it's 5 years old, received a facelift in 2019 and is rumored to be replaced by 2022

They were introduced in a changing market but they're in a pretty normal product life cycle.

We can say it was bad luck for Lexus to launch them during a market change or we can say Lexus failed to properly understand were the market was going... But we can't say they aren't keeping them properly updated.

GX and LX will change drastically and they are not global products, it's a specialty product for a niche market and sales keeps proving they're up to date with the competition. X5's, GLE's, Q8's clearly aren't the direct competition. Also, Lexus keeps launching updated versions of them.

Prior to ~2013, Lexus model redesigns generally occurred on a 5-6 year timeline, and most of the competition still follows that cadence and has only deviated in exception. So by that logic, NX is now outdated (it is), RX should be updated next year (it wont), and the LX and GX are barely acceptable (which is true). UX is the one CUV product that seems on-cycle.

Mose of Lexus' CUVs and SUVs are old and outdated, but buoyed by the overall shift from passenger cars to utility vehicles.

 

[Will1991]

@Gecko, ES is the only model that has been updated consistently around 5 to 6 years, all the others have been more 6 to 8 years on average.

 

[Gecko]

@Gecko, ES is the only model that has been updated consistently around 5 to 6 years, all the others have been more 6 to 8 years on average.

Sort of - and I think looking at timing is important because Lexus started significantly extending timelines for their vehicles in the 2010s so that feels more recent but doesn't mean it's a good strategy, or what they have always done. BOF SUVs were always on a slightly longer timeline. A few examples:

NX: Only one gen so far, hard to judge. 2015 - 2021 (7 model years)

1RX: 1998 - 2003 (6 model years)
2RX: 2004 - 2009 (6 model years)
3RX: 2010 - 2015 (6 model years)
4RX: 2016 - 2021 (6 model years so far)

1GX: 2003 - 2009 (7 model years)
2GX: 2010 - 2021 (11 model years so far)

1LX: 1996 - 1997 (2 model years)
2LX: 1998 - 2007 (10 model years)
3LX: 2008 - 2021 (13 model years so far)

1GS: 1991 - 1997 (7 model years)
2GS: 1998 - 2005 (8 model years)
3GS: 2006 - 2011 (7 model years)
4GS: 2012 - 2021 (10 model years)

1IS: 2001 - 2005 (5 model years)
2IS: 2006 - 2013 (8 model years)
3IS: 2014 - 2021 (8 model years so far)

1LS: 1989 - 1994 (6 model years)
2LS: 1995- 2000 (6 model years)
3LS: 2001 - 2006 (6 model years)
4LS: 2007 - 2017 (11 model years)

 

[James]

@James, I don't agree with you.

Currently most of Lexus SUV's are in a normal product life cycle:
UX, introduced in 2018 as a MY2019, it's 2 years old and is rumored to have a facelift by 2021
NX, introduced in 2014 as a MY2015, it's 6 years old, received a facelift in 2017 and is rumored to be replaced by 2021
RX, introduced in 2015 as a MY2016, it's 5 years old, received a facelift in 2019 and is rumored to be replaced by 2022

They were introduced in a changing market but they're in a pretty normal product life cycle.

We can say it was bad luck for Lexus to launch them during a market change or we can say Lexus failed to properly understand were the market was going... But we can't say they aren't keeping them properly updated.

GX and LX will change drastically and they are not global products, it's a specialty product for a niche market and sales keeps proving they're up to date with the competition. X5's, GLE's, Q8's clearly aren't the direct competition. Also, Lexus keeps launching updated versions of them.

Well what is the GX/LX competition as that is exactly what I'm looking at instead of what Lexus has (X5, Q8) and I can't be the only one. Yes the UX, NX, and RX aren't that old so maybe I should put it more narrow of a window. High end Lexus models (besides LC but even that lack of LCF is stupid of them) is outdated and subpar to the competition. As much as I love Lexus how does anyone buy a GX, LX, LS over the competition besides of course on price. If anyone has I would love to know there reasons because I look at new X5 and Q8 for example and it's not even a competition. Like I don't even think their salesman worry about Lexus.

 

[Will1991]

@Gecko, looking at your data I must agree with your post. Lexus really has been making their models last longer.

@James, right now I sadly (as it was for me) think Lexus don't have what you're looking for...
From what I understand, you're looking for a LF-1, clearly GX and LX aren't for you.

LX's and GX's are for this:

It's a whole different target from the X5/Q8...

 

[James]

@Gecko, looking at your data I must agree with your post. Lexus really has been making their models last longer.

@James, right now I sadly (as it was for me) think Lexus don't have what you're looking for...
From what I understand, you're looking for a LF-1, clearly GX and LX aren't for you.

LX's and GX's are for this:

It's a whole different target from the X5/Q8...

Honestly I don't mind that in the GX/LX but the interior is just so damn old! Lol I just want it like new! I want options for bigger engine choices and quicker 0-60 and just you know new!

 

[Will1991]

As all of we know, Toyota is fast developing battery technologies, and this showed up while looking at Mirai information:


In the last few seconds we see a BEV with CCS port, maybe is a eTNGA vehicle based on the known 6 cars?

 

[Gecko]

I have a feeling the production LF-1 will take a slightly different role and be delivered to market as the all-electric RZ CUV coupe.

Why? We are now nearly 3 years after the LF-1's auto show debut and...

Still no "L_" trademarks indicating a flagship vehicle, but we have seen trademarks for all-new TX and RZ, as well as NX (next year) and RX 350h/500h (two years out).

Still no spy shots.

No further rumors or discussion.

Mass market shift to electric.

IMO, RX/LF-1 relationship was probably always going to be a tough one for an LF-1, similar to ES/GS or ES/LS. If RZ is not the LF-1 and to be a different model, RX, NX, RZ and LF-1 is a lot of two row CUVs even though price would be a differentiator. Seems like overkill.

We know "R" = midsize, C = coupe and X = CUV, so Z being something like a CUV coupe, considering the market, seems pretty realistic... LF-1 was already a two row CUV, so it seems like a natural fit for an "RX-sized" two row CUV coupe.

 

[maiaramdan]

I have a feeling the production LF-1 will take a slightly different role and be delivered to market as the all-electric RZ CUV coupe.

Why? We are now nearly 3 years after the LF-1's auto show debut and...

Still no "L_" trademarks indicating a flagship vehicle, but we have seen trademarks for all-new TX and RZ, as well as NX (next year) and RX 350h/500h (two years out).

Still no spy shots.

No further rumors or discussion.

Mass market shift to electric.

IMO, RX/LF-1 relationship was probably always going to be a tough one for an LF-1, similar to ES/GS or ES/LS. If RZ is not the LF-1 and to be a different model, RX, NX, RZ and LF-1 is a lot of two row CUVs even though price would be a differentiator. Seems like overkill.

We know "R" = midsize, C = coupe and X = CUV, so Z being something like a CUV coupe, considering the market, seems pretty realistic... LF-1 was already a two row CUV, so it seems like a natural fit for an "RX-sized" two row CUV coupe.

For me I also think of 1 of the following

1) the LF-1 will turn to be a design model for the future lexus SUV / CUV lineup

2) the LF-1 will turn to be the TX

3) if the TX will take the role of the 3row so the LF-1 will turn to be the next RX

4) the LF-1 will turn to be the next GX as no one day anything about the future of the GX yet

5) the the wildest of them all is that the LF-1 will turn to be the Toyota Crown!

 

[Levi]

For me I also think of 1 of the following

1) the LF-1 will turn to be a design model for the future lexus SUV / CUV lineup

2) the LF-1 will turn to be the TX

3) if the TX will take the role of the 3row so the LF-1 will turn to be the next RX

4) the LF-1 will turn to be the next GX as no one day anything about the future of the GX yet

5) the the wildest of them all is that the LF-1 will turn to be the Toyota Crown!

Never forget the worst but plausible possibility of new NX and RX having LF1 styling/design, Prado/GX gone, replaced by a global version Fortuner, Crown being Toyota version of RX, LF1 being concept just as the HPX.

 

[maiaramdan]

I am afraid to write it as I take a lot of bashing lately for my extra optimism or extra pessimism

So thanks for writing it by yourself

 

[Gecko]

Never forget the worst but plausible possibility of new NX and RX having LF1 styling/design, Prado/GX gone, replaced by a global version Fortuner, Crown being Toyota version of RX, LF1 being concept just as the HPX.

The only thing there that feels unrealistic to me is Fortuner variant replacing GX/Prado/4Runner because it’s so much smaller and less refined. The rest of it... yeah... I can see it.

 

[maiaramdan]

@ Gecko
Here are the 4 cars in both current gen and previous gen max sizes

Toyota Fortuner - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Toyota 4Runner - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Toyota Land Cruiser Prado - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lexus GX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

i made a small table from the info of wikipedia to show that it's not that small in comparing it with the other 3

for my view i think from this new Tundra leakage that

TUNDRA / SEQOUIA as well as TACOMA / 4RUNNER will take the role of the so called rugged view of FJ in 2 categories
LX will take the role of the so called Range Rover in frame
LC300 will be a sporty LX something like but not the relation between the Cayenne and Cayenne sport or the Q7 & Q8 but in full size leaving the mid size for the Hi-LUX & FORTUNER / PRADO to be as the same relation between the Q7 & Q8

that will leave us will the GX to be the TOYOTA CROWN new twin as a real 5 seater FR unibody so called SUV coupe leaving the 7 seater unibody FR for the TX in LEXUS lineup and may get a twin within TOYOTA lineup

the NX won't increase by much to leave space for the RX

 

[Gecko]

My focus will primarily be on the North American market with this post, but with some new trademarks and information, it seems like Toyota and Lexus are set to own even more of the luxury SUV game than they already do.

In size order:

Toyota:

• C-HR
• Corolla Cross
• Venza
• RAV4
• TBD all-electric CUV ("Toyota RZ")
• 4Runner
• Highlander
• Grand Highlander
• Sequoia
• ???Future??? Land Cruiser returns as a spiritual FJ Cruiser successor

Lexus:

• UX
• NX
• RZ
• RX
• GX
• TX
• LX (could be two wheelbases)
• ???Future??? Mystery mini-GX CUV

Highlander/Grand Highlander/TX will be quite a force to be reckoned with, and could be serious trouble for vehicles like the QX60 or MDX. The current Highlander is very popular with buyers who really don't need a 3rd row, but want one "just in case," which (surprisingly) represents a large number of folks. But with that said, people who really do need a third row and want more room are buying larger products like Explorer, Telluride, etc. A larger Grand Highlander solves that problem and gives Toyota a two-pronged approach in that segment.

Similarly, with no real 3 row unibody CUV and RX-L as a poor effort, Lexus has given up thousands of sales in that segment to Acura, Infiniti and some to the Germans. Taking the RX formula and stretching it to be three full, usable rows will be an overnight success. It's hard to see how this product could go wrong, and if done right, it will be quite lethal for some others in that class.

This is just nameplates and does not consider variations under each for new powertrains like hybrids and plugins which are already here for Toyota, and coming soon to Lexus... for example, we know NX lineup is growing to NX 350, NX 350h, NX 450h+, etc. I also expect that the NXh, RXh and TXh will all come with Direct4 to some degree. For RXh and TXh, probably the "500h" model being new turbo 4 + Li-ion batteries + Direct4 system.

Good times are ahead.

 

[ssun30]

Also the possibility of regular hybrids getting cheaper E-Four while F-sports getting Direct4. There has never been a real change in powertrain and handling dynamics in previous F-sport models and Direct4 might add more differentiation to justify the extra price.

 

[Will1991]

According to BestCar:

• May 2021, 2NX

• July 2021, LF

• October 2021, LX

• November 2021, the F-Month!
  • IS F, 5.0L V8

• • LS F, 4.0L V8TT

• • LC F, 4.0L V8TT

Source:
アクア、ヴェゼル、レクサスNXなど怒涛の12台！ 2021年のスクープ新車カレンダー上半期版 - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」 (bestcarweb.jp) アクア、ヴェゼル、レクサスNXなど怒涛の12台！ 2021年のスクープ新車カレンダー上半期版 (bestcarweb.jp)

It's going to be a experience amazing year!

Some sentences from Google translate:
"LC F will be the flagship sports coupe at the end. Like the LS F, it will be equipped with a newly developed V8 and 4L twin turbo that boasts 670ps/66.3kgm. The chassis is thoroughly tuned to the power, and the double joint multilink suspension handles 21 inch tires. The cast aluminum suspension upper mounting structure is adopted, and the body rigidity is also improved. "

"The power train is the V8 and 5L DOHC equipped with the RC F, and demonstrates 481ps/54.6kgm. "

 

[James]

Okay I have had my hopes high before and completely been busted what is the validity to this because we have been waiting for some of these for years...

 

[Levi]

if it is too good to be true.....