internalaudit

Expert
Messages
1,095
Reactions
1,120
Taycan sells because it’s a Porsche not because it’s a particularly compelling product. I know many colleagues who purchased them over other/better EVs simply because of the badge.

I think the concepts are a strong sign that the new leadership team are taking a clean sheet approach which is a step in the right direction.
The Taycan is one of best handling street legal BEVs. That alone is a compelling reason to get one if one can afford it.

The badge just says one of the best handling car of its class. Hard to find comparables to be honest and going with the badge removes analysis paralysis.


I don't dig the looks at all though, not ugly but not 911 or 718 exterior-beautiful.

Lot of software issues though for some owners.
 

pacman1

Fan
Messages
72
Reactions
117
The Taycan is one of best handling street legal BEVs. That alone is a compelling reason to get one if one can afford it.

The badge just says one of the best handling car of its class. Hard to find comparables to be honest and going with the badge removes analysis paralysis.


I don't dig the looks at all though, not ugly but not 911 or 718 exterior-beautiful.

Lot of software issues though for some owners.
Kinda agree with Nights here. Anecdotal but my colleagues have Porsches and I’m absolutely stunned at how little they know about their cars. I agree they handle better than any other BEV but they did not buy their Taycans for handling. They wanted a BEV that carried higher prestige than Tesla. Combine that with all the soccer moms and soccer dads driving their Macans and Cayennes to the grocery store and preschool and you at least get a sizable portion of the Porsche consumers that are just buying the badge and will never push the car to its full potential. Most buyers aren’t car enthusiasts frequenting car forums but they have money to piss out and want to look good.

Which is absolutely fine. They’re happy and Porsche is happy.
 

internalaudit

Expert
Messages
1,095
Reactions
1,120
Kinda agree with Nights here. Anecdotal but my colleagues have Porsches and I’m absolutely stunned at how little they know about their cars. I agree they handle better than any other BEV but they did not buy their Taycans for handling. They wanted a BEV that carried higher prestige than Tesla. Combine that with all the soccer moms and soccer dads driving their Macans and Cayennes to the grocery store and preschool and you at least get a sizable portion of the Porsche consumers that are just buying the badge and will never push the car to its full potential. Most buyers aren’t car enthusiasts frequenting car forums but they have money to piss out and want to look good.

Which is absolutely fine. They’re happy and Porsche is happy.

I hear you. But it's this same group of people (who like to flaunt their wealth) who like to personalize their vehicles and only Porsche allows for that. Maybe Maserati does but I don't think Maserati trumps Porsche performance -wise or in reliability.

I am of the opposite camp.

Hard to find cars and BEVs with torque vectoring explicitly shown as standard or an option and Porsche offers it for $1,700 Canadian. Also each option is carefully explained so much so I know what I will be paying for. Porsche even says the Macan's PTV Plus is brake-based, but the one on the Taycan isn't.

I don't plan to even drive my wife's Macan EV but I will be mostly the one configuring it, more safety/performance and a bit of luxury. I am waiting for the IS BEV or an Acura BEV with SH-AWD. Don't mind waiting four or even six years!

I will not opt for a $4,000 interior upgrade haha but will go for RWS, PTV Plus, HUD, PASM steel suspension, massage if available, acoustic glass, and a few others for comfort and convenience like windshield heater. It's looking like it could be cheaper opting for the Macan S version lol. Good thing PDCC is not going to be available.
 

meth.ix

Admirer
Messages
925
Reactions
1,097
Are they actually planning on using the LF- prefix for production vehicles now? Some "the future is now" gimmick? The last 2 years of Lexus product naming has been giving me constant headaches. Not to mention all the Zs
 

Ian Schmidt

Moderator
Messages
2,342
Reactions
4,076
Are they actually planning on using the LF- prefix for production vehicles now? Some "the future is now" gimmick? The last 2 years of Lexus product naming has been giving me constant headaches. Not to mention all the Zs
I doubt it. LF- has been a concept prefix for a while now ("Lexus Future"). The LC concept was the LF-LC, for instance.
 

Nights

Fan
Messages
43
Reactions
95
Kinda agree with Nights here. Anecdotal but my colleagues have Porsches and I’m absolutely stunned at how little they know about their cars. I agree they handle better than any other BEV but they did not buy their Taycans for handling. They wanted a BEV that carried higher prestige than Tesla. Combine that with all the soccer moms and soccer dads driving their Macans and Cayennes to the grocery store and preschool and you at least get a sizable portion of the Porsche consumers that are just buying the badge and will never push the car to its full potential. Most buyers aren’t car enthusiasts frequenting car forums but they have money to piss out and want to look good.

Which is absolutely fine. They’re happy and Porsche is happy.
This exactly. I drive a 911.992 as our weekender. Sure, the fellow drivers I meet on special drive days actually know about their cars. The majority of Porsche drivers I meet though don’t care as long as it has the badge and the cachet. It’s been that way ever since Macan/Cayenne became the dominant models in the lineup.

Taycan is nice but if I were to buy an EV, there are better options especially given the sums involved. Most EV buyers don’t care about handling. The only performance metric they care about is straight line speed (since that’s what they’re good at) and range. The RZ for example drives beautifully with Direct4 but because of its range shortcomings, its handling is completely overlooked.

I’m hoping that Sato-san’s new approach will combine the good handling of D4 with an appropriately up to date powertrain. If so, I’m sure we’ll add a Lexus EV to our garage.
 

CRSKTN

Expert
Messages
1,970
Reactions
3,227
People keep saying LF ZC is IS sized, isnt the wheelbase closer to an ES or LS?
Shorter than an IS, longer wheelbase than an ES, and the interior likely has LS levels of room given improved packaging and miniaturization.


I think maybe the shakeup is more drastic than anticipated.

What happens when one type of vehicle can legitimately offer what multiple vehicles used to?

I dont think Lexus will shy away from consolidation.

It even sounds like their new software efforts are consolidating into this new Arene.
 

sl0519

Follower
Messages
472
Reactions
886
It's a concept. Don't get your hopes up until the thing is in production form.
There were enough histories that they f ed up the real thing.
 

mediumhot

Follower
Messages
457
Reactions
606
These concepts are a sign that they are serious with EVs. The LovecarTV interviewed the chief designer of LF-ZC and he said the new shape is to take advantage of gigacasting, 2nd generation eAxles and super low profile battery pack. The LF-ZC is what a cutting edge BEV should look like and the previous IS EV design was clearly with an ICEV mindset. It is designed by an amateur who knows nothing about BEV.

Good packaging doesn't look good and good looking cars generally have bad packaging. Lexus chose design over packaging for the current gen and the products sucked so they are moving in the other direction.

eTNGA was a half baked effort that ended up losing them money in the long run. I'm going to be very blunt here, TMC has been relying solely on brand perception and customer loyalty and get away with selling uncompetitive products for too long. That business model can only last so long and they had to eat the humble pie when nobody buys their hopelessly uncompetitive EVs. So the whole plan they had around eTNGA crumbled and they started from clean sheet.

I'm sorry but everything you described here should be Toyota's job. Lexus should have your emotions stirred first and then have efficient packaging second. That's a difference between common goods and luxury items. Lanvin, Balmain or Louboutin don't make the most comfortable sneakers, nor they employ cutting edge processes but they sure as hell make the most desirable sneakers.
 

mikeavelli

Moderator
Messages
6,814
Reactions
15,224
Maybe I’m just old but I know they are concepts and that is all. No im not huge on them either but I know the production whatever won’t look like it. Again what seems to be impressive is the engineering behind them.

Unfortunately they are not named Prelude so the press isn’t writing 300 articles a day on them.
 

dylanfoos

Follower
Messages
217
Reactions
291

1698761745316.png
1698761902341.png
1698765080234.png
 
Last edited:
Messages
57
Reactions
51

View attachment 8371
View attachment 8372
This is currently the best new product I have seen from Lexus. What a package.