Official 5th Generation GS Thread: Returning with Hydrogen Power?

[ssun30]

It is not that Toyota did not expect the downsizing revolution, it is that Toyota does not believe the downsizing revolution lie. But now they have no choice, the market forces them.

False. Downsizing is not a lie. It has been proven to have positive effect on fuel consumption compared to NA engines, period. But along with downsizing, we had this horsepower war nonsense that forced a lot of downsized turbocharged engines to be rated out of their optimal operation zone. As a result, most cars with downsized motors didn't deliver the promised mileage gains, just because they are universally overpowered.

Downsizing has always been part of TMC's plan. In fact a turbocharged engine was supposed to be equipped by the 5th gen Prius. But the engineers could not meet the efficiency targets within the time they were given. Thus the decision went to using the optimized 1ZR-FXE since it could achieve their MPG goals anyway. The reason TMC did not rush downsizing is that a) they set the goals too high b) they have too many alternative solutions to play with already c) they were not interested in the horsepower war.

The only 'dirty' part of the downsizing revolution is the Germans using their political influence to make nations adopt cycles that give unfair advantage to downsized motors, and using their media connections to convince people they need excessive amount of power.

A comment from a TMEC (Toyota Motor Engineering & Research Center) engineer: our biggest headache is that we have too much technology to play with, it's a nice problem to have, but our competitors just choose to play dirty. Yes, he was referring to VAG.

 

[mikeavelli]

I agree with much of what you are saying but have two concerns:

If Lexus plans to keep some disenfranchised GS owners, they need to have a variant of the ES that is higher performing than it was before. That is where the AWD part comes into play (in a FWD car) - less so for traction and bad weather. Driving an ES 350 hard is no fun - front is twitchy and fidgety, torque steer is bad. An active AWD system would allow Lexus to create a higher performance version that could hopefully keep some GS shoppers.

V6 Camry is the most powerful TNGA vehicle we have so far, and the reviews were not very good with regard to driving dynamics. Many commented that the V6 overwhelmed the chassis, even on the XSE V6, and there was a general preference for the 4 cylinder because it was better balanced. I am sure there will be changes for the ES, but at first glance, these impressions do not bode well for a car that is going to do battle with the A6 and E Class.

Nice post

Every GS owner I've talked to a bit only wants a GS, not an ES. That is kind of the point of the GS, it is the anti-ES.... Surely for sales reasons making the ES more grand makes sense but for enthusiasts they will lose GS owners to another brand if the GS goes away. Just the name alone "GS" is cool.

The ES has alawys be a logical car, the GS has always been the opposite.
1st gen- beautiful looks, pricey, no V-8 option, did I mention beautiful. The only non two tone Lexus sedan. Hardly any competition.
2nd gen- "something wicked this way comes" need we say more? By far the biggest GS success.
3rd gen- Coupe like looks, launched with old engines. Hybrid never caught on. Sales floundred. Oh Competition grew thick
4th gen- Debuts Spindle grill, Arguably best driving in class, more variants then ever, more luxury and tech then ever, sales never took off. Competition thicker than its ever been.

With the LS growing in size and being LWB only they could make the GS quite a bit bigger, more coupe like in design and truly present it as the anti- SUV, anti sedan kind of car. Hell make it a hatchback ala the A7....make it DIFFERENT. Another Lexus sedan with another trunk no longer makes sense.

Mind you we all know the next IS will get bigger, with more luxury etc...

Disclaimer- the GS to me is a big reason for where I am today so I am going to be very passionate about this car.

 

[James]

Nice post

Every GS owner I've talked to a bit only wants a GS, not an ES. That is kind of the point of the GS, it is the anti-ES.... Surely for sales reasons making the ES more grand makes sense but for enthusiasts they will lose GS owners to another brand if the GS goes away. Just the name alone "GS" is cool.

The ES has alawys be a logical car, the GS has always been the opposite.
1st gen- beautiful looks, pricey, no V-8 option, did I mention beautiful. The only non two tone Lexus sedan. Hardly any competition.
2nd gen- "something wicked this way comes" need we say more? By far the biggest GS success.
3rd gen- Coupe like looks, launched with old engines. Hybrid never caught on. Sales floundred. Oh Competition grew thick
4th gen- Debuts Spindle grill, Arguably best driving in class, more variants then ever, more luxury and tech then ever, sales never took off. Competition thicker than its ever been.

With the LS growing in size and being LWB only they could make the GS quite a bit bigger, more coupe like in design and truly present it as the anti- SUV, anti sedan kind of car. Hell make it a hatchback ala the A7....make it DIFFERENT. Another Lexus sedan with another trunk no longer makes sense.

Mind you we all know the next IS will get bigger, with more luxury etc...

Disclaimer- the GS to me is a big reason for where I am today so I am going to be very passionate about this car.

As a proud GS owner I agree. I test drove the ES and as someone in my 20s there was no way I was going to get that. I can’t afford the LS and the IS is small. I’m an extremely loyal Lexus fan but without the GS I don’t know what I would have gotten. I guess I’ll need to earn more for an LS next time or hope the IS does fill that gap better.

 

[ssun30]

As a proud GS owner I agree. I test drove the ES and as someone in my 20s there was no way I was going to get that. I can’t afford the LS and the IS is small. I’m an extremely loyal Lexus fan but without the GS I don’t know what I would have gotten. I guess I’ll need to earn more for an LS next time or hope the IS does fill that gap better.

Majority of the people who want a sporty sedan and get turned down by the size of the IS buy the 3-series instead. Solution to the problem? Make the IS bigger.

 

[Levi]

Hell make it a hatchback ala the A7....make it DIFFERENT. Another Lexus sedan with another trunk no longer makes sense.

I personally do not like the hatchback/coupe/sloppy 4 door cars like Audi Sportback, BMW GranTurismo, Porsche Panamera etc... If sedan, please proper three box. That is why I do not like the new LS as much, it is not so much a three box sedan like the previous one.

Majority of the people who want a sporty sedan and get turned down by the size of the IS buy the 3-series instead. Solution to the problem? Make the IS bigger.

A number of 3 Series Sedan buyers complain it is too big. They would like a smaller one. With the 1 Series Sedan / 2 Series GranCoupe, they now complain that the car of the right size for them is FWD instead of RWD. I agree with the view point. 3 Series/A4 are neither compact, nor executive, but somewhere a bad middle compromise.

 

[IS-SV]

A number of 3 Series Sedan buyers complain it is too big. They would like a smaller one. With the 1 Series Sedan / 2 Series GranCoupe, they now complain that the car of the right size for them is FWD instead of RWD. I agree with the view point. 3 Series/A4 are neither compact, nor executive, but somewhere a bad middle compromise.

Despite 3 series sedan buyers that occasionally complain, the bigger 3 series, C class , and A4 all outsold IS in US in 2017.

 

[mikeavelli]

I personally do not like the hatchback/coupe/sloppy 4 door cars like Audi Sportback, BMW GranTurismo, Porsche Panamera etc... If sedan, please proper three box. That is why I do not like the new LS as much, it is not so much a three box sedan like the previous one.





A number of 3 Series Sedan buyers complain it is too big. They would like a smaller one. With the 1 Series Sedan / 2 Series GranCoupe, they now complain that the car of the right size for them is FWD instead of RWD. I agree with the view point. 3 Series/A4 are neither compact, nor executive, but somewhere a bad middle compromise.

As I've gotten older the advantage of a hatch for cargo space is truly appealing....

 

[Trexus]

Nice post

Every GS owner I've talked to a bit only wants a GS, not an ES. That is kind of the point of the GS, it is the anti-ES.... Surely for sales reasons making the ES more grand makes sense but for enthusiasts they will lose GS owners to another brand if the GS goes away. Just the name alone "GS" is cool.

The ES has alawys be a logical car, the GS has always been the opposite.
1st gen- beautiful looks, pricey, no V-8 option, did I mention beautiful. The only non two tone Lexus sedan. Hardly any competition.
2nd gen- "something wicked this way comes" need we say more? By far the biggest GS success.
3rd gen- Coupe like looks, launched with old engines. Hybrid never caught on. Sales floundred. Oh Competition grew thick
4th gen- Debuts Spindle grill, Arguably best driving in class, more variants then ever, more luxury and tech then ever, sales never took off. Competition thicker than its ever been.

With the LS growing in size and being LWB only they could make the GS quite a bit bigger, more coupe like in design and truly present it as the anti- SUV, anti sedan kind of car. Hell make it a hatchback ala the A7....make it DIFFERENT. Another Lexus sedan with another trunk no longer makes sense.

Mind you we all know the next IS will get bigger, with more luxury etc...

Disclaimer- the GS to me is a big reason for where I am today so I am going to be very passionate about this car.

I am just as equally passionate of the GS as you are Mike!

I had the 1GS and I loved her and she was beautiful. Loved the straight 6 motor.

When the ES came out it was the entry level luxury sedan then came the IS which was also entry level but focused on sport whereas the ES was focused on luxury, cushy similar to a mini LS. The two prong entry level luxury sedans worked.

Fast forward and somehow the ES moved up to the mid-level. The ES can still be focused on luxury, cushy very similar to a mini LS whereas the GS focused more on sport. The two prong mid-level luxury sedans can work but many see the negative side and surprise that there is no support whatsoever other than Mike and myself.

IS - Entry level sport similar to 3 Series
GS/ES - Mid-level sport/luxury similar to 5 Series, ES similar to A6
LS - Flagship luxury similar to 7 Series and S Class

 

[GTG]

Now this is the stuff dreams are made of . The GS would finally turn heads with 600 horse power , and 550 torque . This should all happen at the same price fully loaded , no more no less . The one that is out now should be 10 to 12 thousand less making the full range of the GS completely solid . OMG !!! 600 , 467, 338 , 311, and 241 Wow ! . Please let this be true . Competition with BMW 6 series, Mercedes CLS and Audi A7 here we come .

 

[supra93]

Lexus GS spied in Japan?

 

[amoschen7]

Lexus GS spied in Japan?

Looks very much like the current one?

 

[sl0519]

Looks very much like the current one?

This indeed looks very much like the current one
subtle differences here and there but overall shape is similar
please don't be it...i will be so disappointed if this is the real deal
where is the source of this?

 

[supra93]

This indeed looks very much like the current one
subtle differences here and there but overall shape is similar
please don't be it...i will be so disappointed if this is the real deal
where is the source of this?

It was posted on Instagram. Spy date was November of 2017.

 

[amoschen7]

This indeed looks very much like the current one
subtle differences here and there but overall shape is similar
please don't be it...i will be so disappointed if this is the real deal
where is the source of this?

Let it be the first Lexus in Fuel Cell and then I'll pardon it, lol

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

The mirrors does look like it is a Lexus. I wasn't sure initially but I looked at the LC's for reference. It looks awkward though. A lot like a Honda. Secondly, the design is really similar to the brand new Avalon. However, this new design does look promising, but what the hell??

LOOK AT THAT DASH TO AXLE GAP. I swear if the new GS becomes FWD then I swear...... *sigh* ugh just don't you dare disappoint us.

 

[Carmaker1]

NO, it is not anything in relation to Toyota. People really need to study camouflage design patterns, to differentiate between OEMs/brands. This design is from Honda, because that is the facelifted JDM KC2 Honda Legend, which is sold in Japan of course and this test car is also a transverse FWD vehicle vs a longitudinal RWD sedan that a GS would be. It is already identical to KC1 RLX spy shots seen earlier in 2017. Too many easy mistakes just keep happening with speculation, considering how 240B ES spy shots from the Netherlands were foolishly called "next GS" on Club Lexus.

The mirrors does look like it is a Lexus. I wasn't sure initially but I looked at the LC's for reference. It looks awkward though. A lot like a Honda. Secondly, the design is really similar to the brand new Avalon. However, this new design does look promising, but what the hell??

LOOK AT THAT DASH TO AXLE GAP. I swear if the new GS becomes FWD then I swear...... *sigh* ugh just don't you dare disappoint us.

It is not even a Toyota product...just a Honda, as you thought somewhat. Toyota has their own unique pattern for camouflage, distinct from Honda/Acura. It is all in the details and studying them closely to differentiate.

 

[Benito]

I wouldn’t be surprised to find that that is a new Acura RLX.

 

[supra93]

My mistake. :innocent:

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

NO, it is not anything in relation to Toyota. People really need to study camouflage design patterns, to differentiate between OEMs/brands. This design is from Honda, because that is the facelifted JDM KC2 Honda Legend, which is sold in Japan of course and this test car is also a transverse FWD vehicle vs a longitudinal RWD sedan that a GS would be. It is already identical to KC1 RLX spy shots seen earlier in 2017. Too many easy mistakes just keep happening with speculation, considering how 240B ES spy shots from the Netherlands were foolishly called "next GS" on Club Lexus.

It is not even a Toyota product...just a Honda, as you thought somewhat. Toyota has their own unique pattern for camouflage, distinct from Honda/Acura. It is all in the details and studying them closely to differentiate.

Wooh! Thank god. I had a gut feeling it wasn't the new GS. Have you heard of anything about the new GS Carmaker? I know the spotlight is on the new Supra right now, but I dearly want a new GS.

 

[meth.ix]

I don't thonk that's a Lexus... the rear lights seem very Acura-ish to me.