meth.ix

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Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.
 

Gecko

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Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

I just don't think that's gonna be a driver, at least within the Lexus lineup. One thing that sticks out looking at the EPA's fuel economy listings is that for Lexus, different vehicles with the same engine get comparable MPG regardless of body type. So switching from an RX350 to an ES350 or GS350 doesn't actually help you on gas. Going hybrid on the sedan does help, but so does going to the RX 450h. The GX is *maybe* vulnerable here, but if you're really using it to its full BOF extent a sedan isn't an option. And of course if you can afford an LX you aren't sweating gas prices.
 

sl0519

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Wow...so does this mean we will never ever see GS again
Or maybe it's infinitely delayed for now? Really hoping for the later
 

Levi

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Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Well, current IS also has no IS-F version, GS-F makes up for that.
 

mikeavelli

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And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS. GX will be updated heavily next year.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though (just not next year at this point), but how do they justify the application of GS for a "coupe" model? Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when again, a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Mid-range crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

Stomach churns reading this....

I would be shocked Akio approved no GS, replace with ES and no way there will be a ES F. It seems like something he would protest.

Something is up. That would leave only the RC F as the only F product. And Lexus is Racing and developing F. Obviously the F marque cannot survive with one product which is now older.

Could this possibly happen
Next IS moves up, IS F offered
New sedan slotted below IS, CT (note Benz is bringing an A class to the states, they already have the CLA)
RC F continues (I'm hearing there is significant investment going into the RC F still)
LS F/LC F
GS brought back???

And I find it really just sad that the amazing name SC (a marketing dream) is not used anymore and the awesome name GS might be gone too. Two just amazing names for a luxury vehicle.

I hate to be "that guy" but Mercedes just released an E53 AMG with 429hp. They have the maniacal E63 already.

BMW still offers the 456hp V-8 550 here which does 0-60 much faster than the GS F (3.9 seconds) with AWD. . Now they have the maniacal 600hp M5.

It seems the new BMW M8501 (not a full M) will get a 530hp engine.
 

ssun30

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Maybe this will be a solution in all countries replacing the GS, but in other question what's up with the Mark-X will Toyota kill it also and concentrate only on the Crown or they will have a next generation of it

There are a lot of rumors saying it will become FWD and no longer share platform with IS, which is a very confusing business decision.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Gas prices could reverse it

This is 2018. Unibody CUVs get comparable (and sometimes better) mileage vs. sedans in the same size class, which is why the last period of high gas prices never stopped the RX / RDX / CR-V and friends.
 

Gecko

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I hate to be "that guy" but Mercedes just released an E53 AMG with 429hp. They have the maniacal E63 already.

BMW still offers the 456hp V-8 550 here which does 0-60 much faster than the GS F (3.9 seconds) with AWD. . Now they have the maniacal 600hp M5.

It seems the new BMW M8501 (not a full M) will get a 530hp engine.

Unfortunately, all of this plus the cancellation of the GS are why Mercedes, BMW and Audi just continue to pull away from Lexus in terms of prestige and cache. Those brands understand that everything doesn't have to be a perfect cut and dry business case with 50% profit margins. Thank god for LC - if we didn't have that car, Lexus would virtually be Acura at this point.
 

mikeavelli

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Unfortunately, all of this plus the cancellation of the GS are why Mercedes, BMW and Audi just continue to pull away from Lexus in terms of prestige and cache. Those brands understand that everything doesn't have to be a perfect cut and dry business case with 50% profit margins. Thank god for LC - if we didn't have that car, Lexus would virtually be Acura at this point.

Let's hope some new F cars are truly coming soon.... I haven't heard much of a peep lately....
 

Levi

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Unfortunately, all of this plus the cancellation of the GS are why Mercedes, BMW and Audi just continue to pull away from Lexus in terms of prestige and cache. Those brands understand that everything doesn't have to be a perfect cut and dry business case with 50% profit margins. Thank god for LC - if we didn't have that car, Lexus would virtually be Acura at this point.

BMW could get away without sportscar/supercar. They have enough M cars.
 

Gecko

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Let's hope some new F cars are truly coming soon.... I haven't heard much of a peep lately....

Problem is: what are they going to F? LC F and LS F as $125k flagship vehicles means little without a lineup underneath to support them. RC F needs a refresh. GS F will be gone. IS F, if it even happens, is probably 4 years away for new gen. ES F is not possible. So what is F anymore?
 
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maiaramdan

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There are a lot of rumors saying it will become FWD and no longer share platform with IS, which is a very confusing business decision.

No way they will turn it to FWD for 2 reasons

1) it will be nearly same Camry size and that's why they killed the Aurion.

2) the Mark-X is the successor of Brevis / Verossa / Mark-2 / Chaser / Cresta / Cressida which was a Supra 4 doors.

So they will either kill it or make a new RWD generation of it but they will never mess with the name, Toyota never did it before.
 
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Joaquin Ruhi

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BTW whats up with the Toyota Crown?
According to the Toyota Global Newsroom, the commercial (production) model of the Crown Concept (shown at the 2017 Tokyo Motor Show) is scheduled to be released around the summer of 2018.

There are a lot of rumors saying (Mark X) will become FWD and no longer share platform with IS, which is a very confusing business decision.
Beyond confusing, it would be an automotive sacrilege on the order of owning a Mazda MX-5 Miata with an automatic transmission or applying the Mitsubishi Eclipse badge to a crossover SUV.

To me, this plan smells of taking the new 5th-gen U.S. Toyota Avalon and building it in Japan as the 3rd-gen Toyota Mark X and in China as the 3rd-gen Toyota Reiz.

Had Lexus offered an AWD option on the just-unveiled 7th-gen Lexus ES (the 5th-gen Avalon's fraternal twin), I would be more at ease with this possibility, but the lack of AWD on the 7ES deeply disturbs me, as I know it does others on these forums. It is a major faux pas, one that would be even worse if repeated on what has been Toyota's sportiest, most enthusiast-oriented JDM mid-sized sedan.

Maybe this will be a solution in all countries replacing the GS, but in other question what's up with the Mark-X will Toyota kill it also and concentrate only on the Crown or they will have a next generation of it
Honestly, this conversation is giving me a strong sense of déjà vu, and, rather than repeating ourselves, I refer you to what was said in the Toyota Crown Concept thread back in October 2017.
 

maiaramdan

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@Joaquin Ruhi

1) regarding the AWD it makes me feel that the new generation ES won't be the GS successor as if it's a secret message between the lines

2) regarding the Crown yes we all know it will be in summer or most of us here at least, my question is will the Crown top the Avalon to be there new flagship and take the role of GS world wide , or it will be still between Japan & Oceania?

3) regarding the Mark-X if Toyota want make it FWD they will give it a new name and retired this name completely as Toyota always do, they have no idea to retire a nameplate but don't change the he name plate audience or category.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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1) regarding the AWD it makes me feel that the new generation ES won't be the GS successor as if it's a secret message between the lines
I really, really want you to be right on this, but I place more credence in Carmaker1's assertion that the 5GS program is dead. What really bothers me is not so much that 7ES is replacing the GS, but that they went partway towards proving this was possible (launching with an F Sport model and offering it in Ultrasonic Blue) but stopped short by omitting the most critical element: a performance-oriented AWD option to mitigate the very wrongness of FWD-only for a sports sedan worthy of rivaling the Germans, and even Cadillac, Acura and Infiniti.

The Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD system that will debut in its platform-mate 5th-gen RAV4 would've been such a natural in the 7ES, but no...

2) regarding the Crown yes we all know it will be in summer or most of us here at least, my question is will the Crown top the Avalon to be there new flagship and take the role of GS world wide , or it will be still between Japan & Oceania?
I think that Crown will remain the Toyota brand's flagship, but remain an Asia-only offering. If any Asian markets were to offer both Avalon and Crown, Crown would sit above Avalon.

3) regarding the Mark-X if Toyota want make it FWD they will give it a new name and retired this name completely as Toyota always do, they have no idea to retire a nameplate but don't change the he name plate audience or category.
I totally agree with you there. If Toyota ultimately decides to use a FWD, Avalon-derived model as a replacement for Mark X, better to retire the Mark X badge.
 
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Lexus please make a next generation GS. Make it a four door coupe even. Who cares if it's not best selling thing out there. You shouldn't give up on this segment. All the ingredients are there for you to use such as the GA-L platform,twin turbo V6 in the LS, twin turbo V8 coming for the GSF. Please reconsider Lexus. It's for brand image and own good.