Official 5th Generation GS Thread: Returning with Hydrogen Power?

[Gecko]

Lexus seems to have quietly prepared to send the GS off to retirement... they eliminated the luxury package option as well as most of the more desirable options from the build process.

Previously, you could get the GS with the luxury package that included ML audio, 19" wheels, the triple LED headlights, wood and leather steering wheel, and had Noble Brown leather interior as an option.

If you go to Lexus.com and try to build one, you'll notice that there is no more luxury package at all, and furthermore, the wood and leather steering wheel isn't even an option - nor are the triple LED headlights. With the elimination of the luxury package, the Noble Brown interior was also dropped.

There are only GS 350 AWD or RWD, and then you can self select a few basic options like ML audio, parking sensors and 19" wheels.

Looks to me like a quick simplification before pulling the plug completely.

 

[mikeavelli]

Lexus seems to have quietly prepared to send the GS off to retirement... they eliminated the luxury package option as well as most of the individual options from the build process.

Previously, you could get the GS with the luxury package that included ML audio, 19" wheels, the triple LED headlights, wood and leather steering wheel, and had Noble Brown leather interior as an option.

If you go to Lexus.com and try to build one, you'll notice that there is no more luxury package at all, and furthermore, the wood and leather steering wheel isn't even an option - nor are the triple LED headlights. With the elimination of the luxury package, the Noble Brown interior was also dropped.

There are only GS 350 AWD or RWD, and then you can self select a few basic options like ML audio, parking sensors and 19" wheels.

Looks to me like a quick simplification before pulling the plug completely.

Damn great observation. I wonder will the GS miss a year and come back. There is no 2012 model year GS and it came back...

 

[maiaramdan]

I still have some hope

 

[spwolf]

Lexus seems to have quietly prepared to send the GS off to retirement... they eliminated the luxury package option as well as most of the more desirable options from the build process.

Previously, you could get the GS with the luxury package that included ML audio, 19" wheels, the triple LED headlights, wood and leather steering wheel, and had Noble Brown leather interior as an option.

If you go to Lexus.com and try to build one, you'll notice that there is no more luxury package at all, and furthermore, the wood and leather steering wheel isn't even an option - nor are the triple LED headlights. With the elimination of the luxury package, the Noble Brown interior was also dropped.

There are only GS 350 AWD or RWD, and then you can self select a few basic options like ML audio, parking sensors and 19" wheels.

Looks to me like a quick simplification before pulling the plug completely.

Russia has GS-F left only, i wonder if this will be strategy in the future.

But again, there will be GS... we already know it is in development - we have sources here. It will just likely switch to another place in the market - as we suspect 4 door coupe.

 

[Gecko]

Russia has GS-F left only, i wonder if this will be strategy in the future.

But again, there will be GS... we already know it is in development - we have sources here. It will just likely switch to another place in the market - as we suspect 4 door coupe.

I have not seen any concrete information stating that GS development is progressing. I honestly do not expect it to return based on what I have heard.

 

[GTG]

Hey guys , Gecko! brother! What they are doing to the GS is a crime , but it’s not selling and that’s it . I looked at the Lexus website and your right . Chopping off all the extra to give you a near base car , smart really smart . I hope that they keep it as a limited edition , or redo it in the whole and make it a CLS , A7 competitor.

 

[Trexus]

Lexus, please do not cancel the GS line. Lexus can have a two prong approach to the mid-level sedan lines with the ES and GS lines. The ES line with it's soft, cushy and luxury feel and the GS for the sporty, performance oriented feel. Lexus is unique in this sense. Keep the GS line and position it where it's suppose to be with the likes of the 5 Series (530, 540, 550 & M5), E Class (E300, E400, E43 and E63), Audi A6/S6 then Lexus will see things happen. Build it like it's suppose to be and what them come. Don't give up Lexus!

GS 300
GS 350
GS 500
GS 500h
GS F

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I have not seen any concrete information stating that GS development is progressing. I honestly do not expect it to return based on what I have heard.

Carmaker1 says otherwise, and I believe his word. All we can do is hope for the best. What Lexus is doing is diabolical, and they're taking away a sweetheart of Lexus' lineup. Shame though, they brought it upon themselves and they expect to see sales.

 

[GTG]

Here is hoping for the life of the GS . I see GSF’s holding value in the future.

 

[mikeavelli]

Well with the ES growing HUGE, 113 inch wheelbase and 196 inches in length I have no idea what the plan for any GS is. I assume 4 door coupe or 4 door coupe SUV at this point.

I highly doubt a ES F is coming. I'm quite confused right now lol.

 

[ssun30]

Maybe I'm too rational to understand how people wish that Lexus keep a business practice that doesn't work. Not having GS sucks, but they are not doing anything wrong to focus on other projects instead of the GS at the moment. Wouldn't you all agree that the new IS is a much higher priority than a new GS? Wouldn't you want them to update their terribly old BOF SUVs? We will probably have a GS reborn as an EV, among with many possibilities, who knows. But it's not a priority project so we will have to live with that.

 

[mmcartalk]

Well with the ES growing HUGE, 113 inch wheelbase and 196 inches in length I have no idea what the plan for any GS is. I assume 4 door coupe or 4 door coupe SUV at this point.

As far as I'm concerned, body-wise, there aren't any more true 4-door sedans any more, especially in the American market. They are pretty much all 4-door coupes today. Aerodynamics and style-fads have seen to that.

I highly doubt a ES F is coming. I'm quite confused right now lol.

Not much confusion about that. You can probably take it to the bank that there will be no ES-F...at least in the American market. If there is, I'll send you ten bottles of Scratch-Out LOL. :yum

 

[Levi]

It is not that I do not like '4 door coupes', but I dislike their execution, as much as I dislike the execution of most new 2 door coupes 4 seat coupe. I do not like sport back sloping window and trunk on anything with more than two seats, and even then some fail, like the AMG GT.

 

[Carmaker1]

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS. GX will be updated heavily next year.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though (just not next year at this point), but how do they justify the application of GS for a "coupe" model? Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when again, a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Mid-range crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?

 

[Levi]

Don't know what to think. But FWD does gain 'acceptance', with BMW having and selling loads of FWD cars, and Nissan/Infiniti having a FWD only lineup, until the GT-R stopped production, and without counting the RWD BOF cars. Mitsubishi is mostly FWD, with exception of the old Pajero, and of course the RWD BOF platform.

From a business perspective, LS and ES are the best and only selling sedans. Low budget sedans do sell too, but those can be had from Toyota, namely the Corolla. I think Lexus will have only two sedans. Maybe the IS/GS sporty RWD will merged into one, sized somewhere in between, and be a kind of Audi A5 Sportsback / Kia Stinger GT. A5 Sportback is the best selling A5. Rumors are A5 and TT will merged in one FWD based 2+2 A4 Coupe/Convertible.

 

[Gecko]

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

 

[Levi]

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?

That's absolutely disgusting from Lexus. Damn those stupid bean counters and soulless cheap executives. THIS IS NOT WHAT LEXUS IS ABOUT. They're slowly becoming a victim of themselves for everything and don't have the balls to step up. Man I actually thought you guys were capable of something.

I honestly need some form of optimism, because all of mine has ran out, and that's not a little amount either. How the hell can Lexus time and time again just give up on themselves and throw their hands in the air and say "oh well". I am genuinely fuming right now.

Okay Lexus, it's time to end the bullshit and come to us straight. Stop making everything all smoke and mirrors. Tell us what you want face to face. You lied to us that you wanted to become an aspirational brand. Having genuine great models following the philosophy of sporting credentials yet luxurious or vise versa. If you want to be a cushy brand with soul levels of a refrigerator, fine, then be honest about it. If all you want to do is chase sales, then axe all of your models except the ES, RX, NX, UX, and your other anemic models. You'll still get sales right? Don't tell us something that you're going to pursue and then back up on your goals/core competencies. We're honestly sick of all the lies and false hype that's being produced. And if Carmaker1's words do actually come to fruition, where there won't be a RC, GS, a more mundane IS and a messy lineup and who knows what the hell can happen in which will only stir more confusion and animosity towards this great brand, then I am calling it quits. I have been waiting for 7 years, after Akio Toyoda called for a revolution for Lexus during the Pebble Beach Concurs D'Elegance, aching for something to happen. Isn't 7 years enough time for a multibillion dollar company?

Your actions have no excuses. Sales are a terrible reason to control your lineup. A luxury brand should have no excuses when building a car and it should revolve around the experience the customer is having. If you seriously think this will attract younger buyers by axing key players in your lineup then you're flat out stupid. Don't expect non-Lexus fans like us to not call you boring. You've literally released a permanent FWD ES for its 7th generation in the year of 2018. Where AWD was supposed to be expected and the year where you separate from Toyota. Despite this, we still were optimistic and believed you guys weren't done with the GS yet, until Carmaker1 reveals the news.

I honestly don't know what to say and I am simply tired of being let down time and time again.

Yes, I've only joined this forum earlier this year, it may not seem like I have been a fan of Lexus for a long time, but believe me, I was. I am sick of stupid politics controlling everything.

I think I'll take a break from these forums for a while, because despite I am still a massive Lexus fan, I am so tired of the disappointment. No no, I won't cheat on y'all and fully move on to another brand LOL, but I've been quite active on these forums, and these news don't make it any better. So, see you all for now, I'll pop in time and time again. When things turn good I'll fire back up.

 

[Gecko]

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Agree... I am actually expecting the IS to grow to nearly midsize. It makes sense because LS got huge and ES is the size of the Avalon now (full size). They could make the IS roughly the size of a Camry and it would probably satisfy IS owners and previous GS owners.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.