CRSKTN

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When VAG and GM are sharing things its okay but when Toyota does it is end of the world???
Well I don't drive VAG or GM badge jobs, and I think a lot here might not either.

Regardless, the Euro luxury makes don't have the same ground to gain, and often have huge lineups.

Lexus, alternatively, has relatively few and has been building its brand over decades.

The way to distinguish from Infiniti / Acura / Genesis cohort is not to suddenly start codeveloping with brands even lower than that.

BMW I get, but for a company as huge as TMC, it's hard to feel like "Mazda are good at engines!" is a good excuse.

Do it for Toyota models sure, but reinvest some if that into doing something special in higher makes.

Lexus has a chance to not have the "there are big dirty trucks and vans all over Europe with our luxury brand on them" baggage that MB does, while still becoming a real luxury brand as they transition into whatever the future of transport looks like.

Lots of ranting to say I can't reconcile a Lexus Yacht and then "hey Mazda engine in your exciting 2 door luxury coupe".
 

Axel

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There is no need for Toyota to make any of the cheap Toyota cars under the Lexus badge. Lexus LS, LC, IS, LFA Lexus brand should have stopped here everything else should go under Toyota name. Toyota name itself is very respected cars like a avalon can go full luxury under toyota name without effecting Lexus brand. Rebedging is the problem is it confuses Toyota. Lexus must only make cars that can't be made under the Toyota brand, stop being greedy Toyota.
 

Axel

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The moment for example they make a luxury version of the Toyota CHR which is the Luxus UX this causes the CHR not to be the best because it being sacrificed for the UX. I'm saying the UX could have just call it a toyota cancel the CHR. now you have Mazda moving upmarket Toyota is lost between their own brands because they are not separated proparly. If it can be made under toyota why make Lexus version of it?
 

flexus

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The moment for example they make a luxury version of the Toyota CHR which is the Luxus UX this causes the CHR not to be the best because it being sacrificed for the UX. I'm saying the UX could have just call it a toyota cancel the CHR. now you have Mazda moving upmarket Toyota is lost between their own brands because they are not separated proparly. If it can be made under toyota why make Lexus version of it?
Toyota is already up market in Europe. With new Corolla, Rav4 and Camry they are competing with luxury brands. Ofcourse the starting price is low but upper trims are expensive. Example 1.2T Corolla Touring starts from 22k € and 2.0h Nordic Light edition costs 40K €
 

GSCT

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There is a difference between sharing a platform and badge engineering, and if sharing allows the RC to continue, great. I also think that the sharing will be more Supra/Z 4 than Toyota 86/BRZ.
 

CRSKTN

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There is no need for Toyota to make any of the cheap Toyota cars under the Lexus badge. Lexus LS, LC, IS, LFA Lexus brand should have stopped here everything else should go under Toyota name. Toyota name itself is very respected cars like a avalon can go full luxury under toyota name without effecting Lexus brand. Rebedging is the problem is it confuses Toyota. Lexus must only make cars that can't be made under the Toyota brand, stop being greedy Toyota.
There is zero percent chance that Toyota would be able to sell as a luxury mark is most of its biggest markets in North America.

Also the RX by your logic should be a Toyota, which means you think the luxury crossover segment isn't worthwhile, which we can say is patently false given its importance to Lexus.

Again, maybe in places like SE Asia, eastern Europe, and parts of MENA people would consider Toyota a high end brand that could move units, but that would be luxury brand suicide in places like the US or other higher end markets.
 

CRSKTN

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Toyota is already up market in Europe. With new Corolla, Rav4 and Camry they are competing with luxury brands. Ofcourse the starting price is low but upper trims are expensive. Example 1.2T Corolla Touring starts from 22k € and 2.0h Nordic Light edition costs 40K €
I have to laugh at this. Just because you live in a place with inflated vehicle costs doesn't suddenly make a Corolla a luxury car.

I've sat in the new toyotas. Nice, sure. Luxury vehicle competitors, again I'm laughing.

Nobody is going from a real benz/bmw/other (I dont count the small cheap models to be proper luxury vehicles) to a Corolla. Those interiors are fine for mass market cars, and are competitive, but i have no desire to spend time in one compared to the options you have if you spend only 25-50 percent more.

Given how the low end models seem to be doing for BMW and Benz, there is a clear trend of some buyers wanting cheaper models with desirable badges anyways.
 

flexus

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RC is not even so luxury, its a D segment coupe it would fit into any brands lineup. What I am waiting is Lexus E segment coupe in 2022.
 

flexus

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I have to laugh at this. Just because you live in a place with inflated vehicle costs doesn't suddenly make a Corolla a luxury car.

I've sat in the new toyotas. Nice, sure. Luxury vehicle competitors, again I'm laughing.

Nobody is going from a real benz/bmw/other (I dont count the small cheap models to be proper luxury vehicles) to a Corolla. Those interiors are fine for mass market cars, and are competitive, but i have no desire to spend time in one compared to the options you have if you spend only 25-50 percent more.

Given how the low end models seem to be doing for BMW and Benz, there is a clear trend of some buyers wanting cheaper models with desirable badges anyways.
We have high taxes (That's why are best country in the world 3 years in row) but if ypu don't count Corollas 1.2t it is similary priced as A3 1-series and A-class. And we don't have inflated vehicle prices we just pay for vehicles but not for healthcare and education.
 
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CRSKTN

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We have high taxes (That's why are best country in the world 3 years in row) but if ypu don't count Corollas 1.2t it is similary priced as A3 1-series and A-class. And we don't have inflated vehicle prices we just pay for vehicles but not for healthcare and education and no one shot me at school.
You seem very emotional.

I dont even get what you're trying to communicate, other than that you have the emotional disposition of a child (congrats I guess?), and some weird nationalistic jingoism combined with the assumption that I am American.

A3 and A class aren't luxury cars either. Would never even consider one unless it was fully loaded and even then, better to move to the higher end models, price jump isn't huge but quality and design improvements are meaningful.

Also, thanks for more laughs with the RC comment.
Let me just got hop in my Kia RC F, yup, totally fits right in to the lineup.
 

flexus

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You seem very emotional.

I dont even get what you're trying to communicate, other than that you have the emotional disposition of a child (congrats I guess?), and some weird nationalistic jingoism combined with the assumption that I am American.

A3 and A class aren't luxury cars either. Would never even consider one unless it was fully loaded and even then, better to move to the higher end models, price jump isn't huge but quality and design improvements are meaningful.

Also, thanks for more laughs with the RC comment.
Let me just got hop in my Kia RC F, yup, totally fits right in to the lineup.
I'd say you cannot engage in constructive conversation but you won't care don't you? Anyway have you ever heard of Kia Stinger? Its a D segment sedan.
 

Gecko

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What doesn't your little brain understand in sentence: TOYOTA AND MAZDA WILL CO DEVELOP RWD ARCHITECTURE AND I6 ENGINE TO SHARE IN THEIR FUTURE MODELS.
If there is lot of ground gain why reception for LM was so cold in this forum when it is doing for the brand more than whole lineup?
A lot of this still doesn't make sense. Why does Toyota need an I6 when they just developed a completely new twin turbo V6? Why does Toyota need to co-develop a RWD architecture with Mazda when they have brand new, top tier GA-L and also TNGA-N?

The reception to LM was so cold because we're watching Lexus die on the vine while they drop things like GS, we have no new V8, no performance crossovers, the entire F brand is a half fulfilled promise, but they focus on minivans and yachts to be a "lifestyle brand" - a marketing term born for social media "influencers" in 2012.
 

Will1991

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Honestly, I don't believe in this.

1th, Toyota has invested a lot to be leader on hybrids, and has invested something to turn Lexus as the biggest premium hybrid manafacturer. Mazda on the other hand is pursuing Skyactiv-X with a bigger price increase than a equivalente HSD. Do you really believe Lexus will turn away from hybrids?

2th, I6 makes no sense, why would they build one to be sold in a couple of years and get BMW's I6 to power the new Supra?

At the most, Mazda will buy components from Toyota and in return Toyota will make minor changes to better suit Mazda's needs... And even this is a bit farfetch...

This rumor seems like "Lexus will get BMW I6" all over again.

But I do agree with Gecko, they're building a lot of crap instead of cars.
 

Ian Schmidt

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If they are only going to build a handful of low-volume models on it, why bother in the first place? You don't reduce cost by not producing anything, you reduce cost by producing more things. Right now it just seems they want GA-N/L but not really.
I agree in a strict line-of-business sense, but out in the real world you also want the flagships to have unique low-volume components, or at least to look and feel like they do. Mercedes does this perhaps the best of anyone; the S-Class is visually very distinct from everything else that they build. I'm not a fan of that look, but there's no mistaking it for any other Benz. (Contrast with Audi, where everything they make looks like a Passat).
 

flexus

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A lot of this still doesn't make sense. Why does Toyota need an I6 when they just developed a completely new twin turbo V6? Why does Toyota need to co-develop a RWD architecture with Mazda when they have brand new, top tier GA-L and also TNGA-N?

The reception to LM was so cold because we're watching Lexus die on the vine while they drop things like GS, we have no new V8, no performance crossovers, the entire F brand is a half fulfilled promise, but they focus on minivans and yachts to be a "lifestyle brand" - a marketing term born for social media "influencers" in 2012.
Good point. I can understand sharing RC parts since its very low volume model. I cannot answer why they need new RWD platform, but if I was you I would be thrilled because this platform covers E segment and article mentioned of new coupe so it would be odd if there's E seg coupe but not sedan. Investing in petrol engines is kinda stupid as after new gen engines life cycle share of petrol only models have decreased drastically in Asia and Europe.

I completely disagree with you concerning LM. It is best decision after introducibg crossovers to the brand. Remember Lexus is global brand if it focuses in US it will fail like GM.
I think @ssun30 can answer your V6 I6 question. Remember even S Class uses I6 nowadays.
Lifestyle brand is best what a company could achieve. It ties customers to its ecosystem very much like Apple's success.
So why does biggest and richest auto manufacturer seek partnerships all the time? Simple answer: investments and R&D. Cars are for moving people, but movement of people can create great things. As Mr. Toyoda says industry is facing biggest change in 100 years. Cooperation doesn't limit with carmanufacturers but goverment, universities and tech companies (Softbank). Innovations starts with tight cooperation with public sector, private sector, universities and people.
 

CRSKTN

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I'd say you cannot engage in constructive conversation but you won't care don't you? Anyway have you ever heard of Kia Stinger? Its a D segment sedan.
The stinger has well known build quality problems. I've heard from multiple people about issues with windows and interior parts rattling.

Again, we are talking Luxury brands. If your definition of Luxury is "slapped together and on the surface looks half presentable", i guess we are arguing different things. If the stinger is something you bring up in a discussion about that category of cars, we have fundamentally different definitions of "luxury car".
 
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