Lexus UX 250 and UX 250h Trademarks Registered in Australia

meth.ix

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Reason S300 does not sell is that it is very expensive car that is not competitive within S class lineup and that S class buyers still like to buy strong engines... it is basically a PR for them.

As to the diesels, I dont think they are going anywhere, anytime soon. I would not be surprised if Lexus gets some diesels in next generation of vehicles. Toyota will build another 2.0l diesel and it will be competitive to be used in IS, GS, NX, etc.

While European volume is not large enough for them to make it only for Lexus, they do sell a boat load of diesels in Europe and worldwide. I see them doing them again and for Lexus.

We will see soon enough with new C-HR... it is being unveiled "today" and lets see if it has diesel or not. If it does, I see them doing Lexus diesels in the future. Toyota is not here to promote world peace, they sell vehicles.

Updated Rav4 got 2.0l from BMW together with Hybrid option. 2.0l is not compatible with Toyota AWD transmissions though so only FWD. They will have to build one for next model in 2018. Heck, they recently said at launch of new Hilux with new 2.4/2.8 GD diesels that they expect to sell 1 million diesel engines per year by 2020... thats not a small number at all.
I do know that there is a LX 450d in Russia. https://lexusenthusiast.com/2015/10/15/lexus-russia-announces-lx-450d-with-twin-turbo-diesel-engine/
 

ydooby

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i think it is far simpler than that... only way to make it cheaper than NX is to put cheaper powertrain in it. Hence 2.0l and 2.5l NA engines as well as 250h. At the same time, C-HR will have smaller 1.2t and 1.8 HSD, as well as likely 1.8l NA for USA.
Not really. A smaller vehicle on a similar platform will always be cheaper just by using less and smaller parts. The GLA, X1, Q3 and QX30 can all be had with a 2.0 turbo so I don't see why Lexus has to cheap out here. 2.5L NA simply isn't as powerful or as efficient as a 2.0 turbo, the industry trend and standard these days. Let's hope Lexus will still release the UX200t at least for most other markets.
 

mikeavelli

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It's possible it might not be offered in the UX because then the UX would outperform the NX. With Lexus and the Germans making up names all the time, I don't put to much thought into trademarked names since it could be anything at this point :D
 

mikeavelli

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My hunch - and pure speculation - is that these will be two new engines for Toyota/Lexus.

They could drop the same old 2.5L 2AR-FE in there, currently working in the Camry, Rav4 and other applications, but that engine is getting older. As Toyota/Lexus move to Atkinson/Otto cycle and D4-S technology across the board, I'm betting we see a new 2.5L 4 cylinder very soon.

Toyota has a new 2.0L 4 cylinder used in Asian markets that has Otto/Atkinson, D4-S and produces 165hp. I assume we will see a slightly larger, slightly more powerful version as the next "workhorse" 4 cylinder in Camry, Rav4 and most likely this UX. In current 2.0L form, that engine breaks out to be 82.5hp/L, so I think it's very reasonable to think a 2.5L version (with the same tech) would ring in around 200hp (206hp exactly, based on my prior calculation).

The "250h" model is most interesting. I know I'm being very speculative here, but I assume that a new hybrid - 2.0L four cylinder + next gen hybrid batteries - to give a "2.5L-like" output around 210-215hp.

As the current "300h" system used in the ES 300h and NX 300h is getting older, this would give Lexus a new "in-between" hybrid option that slots above the Prius/CT's 1.8L hybrid but below a possible next generation "300h" option for IS, GS, RC, NX.

I'll go one step further to say that if Lexus was to combine that new, hypothetical 2.5L 4 cylinder above with a next-gen hybrid, you get a ~240-250hp "300h" option, which would be a great upgrade.

All speculation, but fun to think about. I bet I'm not too far off, but we'll see.
I think this makes sense, two new engines....
 

mikeavelli

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^^ It seems raised a bit....honestly need to read more on it but its another vehicle blurring lines
 

isanatori

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Guys, lets not paint entire regions and a country as one way okay? We have many American's and Europeans on this site. Making such statements is not debating, its argumentative and holds no weight since its not true, its a huge exaggeration(s).

I'm going to reiterate below. We can all have a heated, passionate debate but lets drop the jabs. :)
I regret that characterization to europeans and I am sorry if I offended some people. But in the next sentence I explained what I meant. I just wanted to say that europeans don't think when they buy cars. They follow the trend that european automakers set with the help of journalists. I will conform my vocabulary, so as not to be offensive from now on.
 

Gecko

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Regarding Q2:

I feel like the only reason you'd buy this car is because you have to have an Audi...?



Rav4, CX-5 and CR-V have more upscale, luxurious looking interiors.
 

isanatori

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In the long term, however, many European countries are gradually realizing the health implications diesels have on our respiration systems and are legislating to discourage the use of diesels in several phases,
My brain cells have a digest problem with your wording <many European countries are gradually realizing>. Diesel emissions are a known serious threat for human body for at least 20 years and I cannot think any other reason why EU hesitates to accept reality for so long, rather than certain lobby interests.
Also European countries are a misnomer, in reality. They have a voice, but they cannot go against the hand that feeds them (Germany). Therefore it is challenging to call them countries, I believe.
I replied because I wanted to notice, that by giving the element of unawareness, or doubt where matters are crystal-clear, it looks like we are part of the same hypocrisy.
 

James

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You know I'm really confused with some of these car brands. Like Audi they have an A3 and an A4 isn't it like the exact same car except like a couple inches different? I mean if you look at Lexus especially with the IS/ES. They are vastly different between the two of them. It's not like I will buy the IS/ES because I want the cheaper one I buy the IS/ES because I want sporty or I don't want sporty. I don't want Lexus to get into the we need a 3 series that has two doors four doors M3 coupe M3 sedan M4 coupe and all this. I like that if you want a four door car you would get an IS if you want a coupe you go the RC or LS/LC coupe vs sedan. I just don't know what the difference is in so many of these cars now besides a number and a few inches of space.
 

isanatori

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By the way I'm very surprised that no UX200t trademark was filed. Is Lexus afraid of putting turbo power in its entry level models (big mistake if so), or is Lexus simply dropping the "t" naming convention for its turbos and starting to emulate BMW's naming convention by simply using numbers corresponding to equivalent NA engine displacements, in which case the UX250 is simply a UX200t or UX180t in disguise?
Toyota revealed many years ago (I think since the 90s) that hybrids will be the core of their power trains and I believe Lexus is at the forefront of this effort. Since then, you take a look at the power train that comes with concepts Toyota/Lexus both release the last 20 years(All concepts come with either petrol naturally aspirated or hybrid/petrol NA power trains or hybrid/hydrogen ones) and you realise how devoted are to their purpose. Then there are some people with similar views like you who give all their energy and imagination :) to fight Toyota/Lexus decisions and imply that Toyota/Lexus have no answer to the needs of modern times, suggesting to follow the German logic of downsizing, at a time where Lexus introduces a new hybrid system. I really cannot explain such mysterious strong urge and motivation.
 

spwolf

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Not really. A smaller vehicle on a similar platform will always be cheaper just by using less and smaller parts. The GLA, X1, Q3 and QX30 can all be had with a 2.0 turbo so I don't see why Lexus has to cheap out here. 2.5L NA simply isn't as powerful or as efficient as a 2.0 turbo, the industry trend and standard these days. Let's hope Lexus will still release the UX200t at least for most other markets.
You are answering your own question. They are cheapening it out to make it cheaper.If they could make car from same platform and same engines but significantly cheaper since it has 20cm less plastic, then they would be wizards.

GLA's main engine in Europe is from Renault Clio, which is basically a Yaris and costs 3x less than GLA. This is their best selling engine. 200hp+ engines are for press and barely ever seen on roads.
 

Ian Schmidt

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That Q3 is the hatchback-iest looking CUV I've ever seen. Did Audi release the wrong photos? :)
 

spwolf

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Today at Geneva Toyota revealed two crucial things:
a. Their new C-HR, powered with Prius 1.8l G4 engine, 1.2t turbo and 2.0l NA engine
b. Plans to expand European hybrid sales to 50% from current 24%.

Since C-HR numbers are revealed, we know more about what it means for future UX. It has wheelbase only 2cm smaller than NX but significantly less overhangs. It should be quite lighter due to new platform, hence smaller engines. C-HR Hybrid will get around 40 MPG in "base" trim if we use CT200h as reference since numbers are same as CT200h's. There is no such thing as base C-HR though since even the base model gets full auto-brake/full speed radar control system.

Another important thing was 50% revelation - it simply means that Toyota will slowly discontinue diesels in most of its small vehicles. C-HR is first main Toyota vehicle without diesel in Europe. There is simply no way to get to 50%. It also means that future hybrids and C-HR will have cheaper hybrid powertrain that will compete with diesels in cost (still a little bit more expensive now).

2.0l CVT model is likely for Russia and is likely the same engine that might go into UX.
 

isanatori

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Another important thing was 50% revelation - it simply means that Toyota will slowly discontinue diesels in most of its small vehicles. C-HR is first main Toyota vehicle without diesel in Europe. There is simply no way to get to 50%. It also means that future hybrids and C-HR will have cheaper hybrid powertrain that will compete with diesels in cost (still a little bit more expensive now).
I don't fully agree with you. Currently, Toyota hybrid is a winner proposition against equivalent automatics diesel or gasoline. But they cannot compete with manual transmission gasoline or diesel in pricing. Europeans are more familiar with manual transmissions and because of their unawareness, they prefer to buy some shiny alloys rather than spending money for the benefit of the relaxing experience of an automatic gearbox. I think in order for full hybrids to catch the 50% of all sales of Toyota cars sold in Europe, Toyota hybrid will need to be competitive in pricing against the manual transmission cars.
 
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spwolf

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I don't fully agree with you. Currently, Toyota hybrid is a winner proposition against equivalent automatics diesel or gasoline. But they cannot compete with manual transmission gasoline or diesel in pricing. Europeans are more familiar with manual transmissions and because of their unawareness, they prefer to buy some shiny alloys rather than spending money for the benefit of the relaxing experience of an automatic gearbox. I think in order for full hybrids to catch the 50% of all sales of Toyota cars sold in Europe, Toyota hybrid will need to be competitive in pricing against the manual transmission cars.
it does not matter if customer is correct or not... there is simply no way to get to 50% hybrid sales if they still have diesels for Yaris, Auris, Verso and Avensis. For SUVs I am sure they will keep them.

Sales of hybrids are record for Toyota now but are at 24% European share due to Russia kicking this down a lot (33% in Western Europe)... so for it to go up to 50%, it means that it has to go over 65% in Western Europe which is simply not possible with Diesel options.

So yes, they will go down in pricing and also be more competitive on highways, but thats pretty much what new Prius is much better at - highway mpg. C-HR as core European model not having a diesel option gives you everything you need to know about future Toyota diesels in Europe.
 
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