Lexus Has Cancelled the GS Sedan

[internalaudit]

Saw some of carmaker's posts lol:

Car and Driver: New Car Reviews, Buying Advice and News

Covering the automotive industry since 1955 with in-depth reviews and analysis, features, auto show reporting, and advice for car owners and buyers.

backfires.caranddriver.com

 

[mediumhot]

hopefully some day, one day, Lexus will figure out not how to make good RWD cars cause they already do but how to move them and make them their priority in order to never again skip on ultimate builds and models.

 

[internalaudit]

They already started with Car play and Android Auto.

Keep double wishbone suspension up front, allow AVS even in comfort or normal throttle settings, trickle some technology like TVD to the IS. Keep using more aluminum components underneath. Start transitioning to BEVs without anymore BS delays. Stop BS marketing like self charging hybrids that only backfires

Differentiate or teach the public how different Lexus are from Toyota vehicles.

Lower interest rates, increase residuals.

Get the design language right to a tee like Audi did.

 

[mikeavelli]

One thing that people haven't picked up on is, the GS is the only family sedan of 2 total on New N platform. No Toyota badged vehicles have used that platform, just like GA-L.

I'm actually mind blown I never picked up on that until a few days ago. So basically, New N is solely GS, IS, and RC. S210 Crown and Mark X rode on old "N" platform like XF40 LS and S190 3GS.

GA-L is currently LS and LC. GA-N is the narrow application of GA-L. LC and LS have very wide stances, that won't work with IS on GA-L I imagine.

For being so-called modular, A90 wouldn't work with largesse GA-L. The GS hasn't shared its platform with the Crown nor ANY Toyota since 2011, yet so many people reported like it was fact! These have been Lexus cars inside out with no direct relation to Toyota brand outside of some components!

(Edit: Horrible keyboard/VTT on Device)

Nice. It really explains why the GS drove better than anything they had. It also offered optional rear steer on the F-Sport. We had it. I’ve tracked it. That platform is utterly superb. The GS even stock even in base form, drives like a sports car.

That is why the GS F is so good. It is underpowered to the competition but the 470hp/390lbs of torque or so is the perfect match for that platform. It doesn’t overwhelm. Chris Harris chose the GS F over the M5 for that reason.

 

[Levi]

Legit question:

If ES and GS was too much for Lexus, and it is easier to sell the ES badge than the GS badge, why has Lexus not made the ES RWD? Many if not most current FWD cars were RWD at some time, why the opposite is not possible? There even are some recent cases, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Ford Explorer (Alfa sales is a different story again), the went from FWD back to RWD as they were before becoming FWD.

Genesis has no FWD cars, and their two new CUVs are RWD based. Is it true that current FWD ES buyers take the ES over the 5 Series and E Class because it is FWD instead of RWD and because it has more interior space in the second row? Would they walk away from an ES if it was RWD? While the GS badge would die, those in the know would know under the ES badge is in fact a GS.

What is the problem with the ES, that it is a rebadged Toyota or that it is a FWD Toyota?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Saw some of carmaker's posts lol:

Car and Driver: New Car Reviews, Buying Advice and News

Covering the automotive industry since 1955 with in-depth reviews and analysis, features, auto show reporting, and advice for car owners and buyers.

backfires.caranddriver.com

I'm on there too. ;^)

 

[internalaudit]

I'm on there too. ;^)

Gogobear? Haha

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Gogobear? Haha

Naw. Heh.

 

[meth.ix]

Legit question:

If ES and GS was too much for Lexus, and it is easier to sell the ES badge than the GS badge, why has Lexus not made the ES RWD? Many if not most current FWD cars were RWD at some time, why the opposite is not possible? There even are some recent cases, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Ford Explorer (Alfa sales is a different story again), the went from FWD back to RWD as they were before becoming FWD.

Genesis has no FWD cars, and their two new CUVs are RWD based. Is it true that current FWD ES buyers take the ES over the 5 Series and E Class because it is FWD instead of RWD and because it has more interior space in the second row? Would they walk away from an ES if it was RWD? While the GS badge would die, those in the know would know under the ES badge is in fact a GS.

What is the problem with the ES, that it is a rebadged Toyota or that it is a FWD Toyota?

One of the reasons that the ES sells more than the GS is because the rear seats have more space. The GS has a large hump in the middle of the rear seats and I believe this is due to the RWD architecture taking up space.

 

[maiaramdan]

Legit question:

If ES and GS was too much for Lexus, and it is easier to sell the ES badge than the GS badge, why has Lexus not made the ES RWD? Many if not most current FWD cars were RWD at some time, why the opposite is not possible? There even are some recent cases, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Ford Explorer (Alfa sales is a different story again), the went from FWD back to RWD as they were before becoming FWD.

Genesis has no FWD cars, and their two new CUVs are RWD based. Is it true that current FWD ES buyers take the ES over the 5 Series and E Class because it is FWD instead of RWD and because it has more interior space in the second row? Would they walk away from an ES if it was RWD? While the GS badge would die, those in the know would know under the ES badge is in fact a GS.

What is the problem with the ES, that it is a rebadged Toyota or that it is a FWD Toyota?

One of the reasons that the ES sells more than the GS is because the rear seats have more space. The GS has a large hump in the middle of the rear seats and I believe this is due to the RWD architecture taking up space.

Frankly speaking, from 2019/2020
The ES shall not have any reason to be sold

* Camry, came with the same engines on little body so it will be faster 0-60/ 0-100

* Avalon, came much more agile on handling as the best FF handling especially on the TRD models & trims, with same fit and finish, same materials, and better exterior design and sportier interior and that honestly can be seen on the selling numbers

* GS only 10k different on every engine and every trim adding that those 10k difference gave the average customer much more handling, safety, usage time, fit & finish, building quality, AWD, rear wheel steering and reliability the GS will be the bargain, they just don't want to promote it that way same can goes to Japanese market Mark-X

 

[ssun30]

why has Lexus not made the ES RWD? Many if not most current FWD cars were RWD at some time, why the opposite is not possible?

$$$

Other manufacturers are switching to longitudinal platforms to prepare for the BEV switch.

 

[internalaudit]

$$$

Other manufacturers are switching to longitudinal platforms to prepare for the BEV switch.

How do longitudinal platforms differ from transverse? platforms?

Would these platforms be the same for ICEVs and BEVs, or would a ICEV longitudinal be different from a BEV longitudinal?

Is Hyundai really going for FCEV?

 

[Gecko]

Legit question:

If ES and GS was too much for Lexus, and it is easier to sell the ES badge than the GS badge, why has Lexus not made the ES RWD? Many if not most current FWD cars were RWD at some time, why the opposite is not possible? There even are some recent cases, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Ford Explorer (Alfa sales is a different story again), the went from FWD back to RWD as they were before becoming FWD.

Because the GS was a more R&D intensive - but also more premium - product since it was on a dedicated RWD chassis and 90% of what Toyota needs to make the ES passable as a similar sized luxury car already exists, which make the ES very cheap to produce:

Genesis has no FWD cars, and their two new CUVs are RWD based. Is it true that current FWD ES buyers take the ES over the 5 Series and E Class because it is FWD instead of RWD and because it has more interior space in the second row? Would they walk away from an ES if it was RWD? While the GS badge would die, those in the know would know under the ES badge is in fact a GS.

Where did you hear this? Buyers who choose ES over E-Class and 5 Series do so because it costs ~30-50% less and most of the general public doesn't know the difference between FWD or RWD.

What is the problem with the ES, that it is a rebadged Toyota or that it is a FWD Toyota?

What do you mean by "problem"? I don't personally think there is any problem with the ES... it is just a very basic luxury car based on a pedestrian mainstream vehicle that is not comparable to the E Class or 5 Series... but it is also not priced like them either.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

$$$

Other manufacturers are switching to longitudinal platforms to prepare for the BEV switch.

Hold on, just longitudinal or longitudinal and RWD?

 

[ssun30]

How do longitudinal platforms differ from transverse? platforms?

Would these platforms be the same for ICEVs and BEVs, or would a ICEV longitudinal be different from a BEV longitudinal?

Longitudinal platforms have longer wheelbase for the same overall car length, also less front overhang. This means more space for the battery pack. Most dedicated EV platforms have longitudinal-RWD-like proportions. However, almost all EVs use transversely mounted motors since they are direct drive.

Hold on, just longitudinal or longitudinal and RWD?

The most sensible way to use a longitudinal platform is go RWD. Longitudinal FWD is a relic from last century. Yes I'm saying Audi and Subaru are using outdated concepts that make no sense today, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Longitudinal platforms have longer wheelbase for the same overall car length, also less front overhang. This means more space for the battery pack. Most dedicated EV platforms have longitudinal-RWD-like proportions. However, almost all EVs use transversely mounted motors since they are direct drive.

The most sensible way to use a longitudinal platform is go RWD. Longitudinal FWD is a relic from last century. Yes I'm saying Audi and Subaru are using outdated concepts that make no sense today, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

I agree that longitudinal FWD makes no sense but knowing that VW and Subaru uses it prompted me to ask this question.

 

[mikeavelli]

I’ll never forget this. And it’s true. The average person has no idea.

The Craziest Damn Thing You'll Hear Today: 80% of BMW 1 Series owners think their car is FWD - Autoblog

2010 BMW 135i – Click above for high-res image gallery

www.google.com

 

[Will1991]

Price wise, there is place for a GS, the price gap from a ES to a LS, a top spec ES isn't much more than half a "base" (if we can call it a base spec given how much they have), is quite huge price difference, but when there are so much more SUV buyers... Don't know is it were going to be a good financial decision... Even being a high quality and beautiful looking Mirai-like GS... Specially when there is going to be a new NX and a new flagship SUV...

About the ES, I find it really hard to say it's similar to a Camry... They have the same platform, but last year in a small car show I got the opportunity to get into a Camry and 1min after into a ES... Besides similar overall dimension, a Camry is nothing like a ES in my opinion... Even ES closing door sound is miles apart from a Camry... For the non-enthusiast buyer they will never say it's similar or almost the same thing.

In my opinion, ES is a beautiful, well built and priced car that can replace a GS for the majority of buyers.

If I would love to see a new GS F? Sure! But I don't see it as a profitable program... I think SUV's killed the GS, no one else...

 

[LexsCTJill]

Legit question:

If ES and GS was too much for Lexus, and it is easier to sell the ES badge than the GS badge, why has Lexus not made the ES RWD? Many if not most current FWD cars were RWD at some time, why the opposite is not possible? There even are some recent cases, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Ford Explorer (Alfa sales is a different story again), the went from FWD back to RWD as they were before becoming FWD.

Genesis has no FWD cars, and their two new CUVs are RWD based. Is it true that current FWD ES buyers take the ES over the 5 Series and E Class because it is FWD instead of RWD and because it has more interior space in the second row? Would they walk away from an ES if it was RWD? While the GS badge would die, those in the know would know under the ES badge is in fact a GS.

What is the problem with the ES, that it is a rebadged Toyota or that it is a FWD Toyota?

I think the ES is easier to sell because it is better packaged (V6 only in the US, where the GS had a I4tt as base), the interior is larger in the most important places. It is costs less to operate as there is no premium fuel required. The US also since the late 70s and early 80s really seemed to adopt FWD.

You also have parts of the world where prices are far farther apart. In Canada the ES starst at $45K while the GS starts at $64K and comes with AWD.

Other things, the average person who looks at the ES and then the GS will come away scratching their because the two cars are the same size and now today, use the same 3.5 engine....so a $10K premium will never fly.

 

[internalaudit]

Will the ES get AWD like the Camry?