German Big 3 automakers emissions cheating disaster Master Thread

[mmcartalk]

Most of you probably already know what the scandal entails, but, for those who don't, here's an old but still-interesting video on what components were affected....and how it was programmed to evade the EPA tests.

 

[mmcartalk]

A Federal judge in San Francisco approved the latest $15 billion settlement.

(Steve, this might be an even bigger story where you are in Silicon Valley, since you aren't very far from San Francisco. Of course, it's big news here, too, as VW of America's HQ is in Herndon, VA, in the Washington D.C. suburbs, just a few miles from my front door).

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/n...lkswagen-Emissions-Settlement--398353851.html

A federal judge in San Francisco has approved a nearly $15 billion court settlement of most claims against Volkswagen for its emissions-cheating scandal.

U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer signed the order Tuesday approving the largest auto-scandal settlement in the nation's history.
Volkswagen admitted last year that about 475,000 VWs and Audis with 2-liter four-cylinder diesel engines were programmed to cheat on emissions tests. Under the settlement, owners of the affected cars have until Sept. 1, 2018, to decide whether to have the car fixed or repurchased. Volkswagen could start buying back the cars as early as next month if the owner submits a claim.

Most of the owners are expected to sell their cars back to VW after discovering they exceed U.S. emissions standards in real-world driving conditions. In addition to having their cars bought back, owners can each get cash payments of $5,100 to $10,000.



"The settlement is fair, reasonable and adequate," Breyer wrote in his order, posted Tuesday morning by the court.

VW will pay attorney fees and costs, including up to $324 million in fees and $8.5 million in out-of-pocket costs.

The settlement releases legal claims from most of the 2-liter VW owners, but it doesn't affect larger 3-liter six-cylinder diesels, which also cheated on tests. The settlement also doesn't end any claims against parts supplier Robert Bosch, which drew up the cheating software.

Judge Breyer gave preliminary approval to the settlement in July. The order says that 336,612 owners of 2-liter diesels have registered for the settlement and 3,298 have opted out.

VW must make payments available within 10 business days from Tuesday, according to the order.

Breyer wrote that the priority was to get the cars off the road as soon as possible, and the settlement accomplishes that. The polluting cars emitted as much as 40 times the allowable limit for nitrogen oxide, a gas that can cause human respiratory problems.

The settlement calls for the German automaker to spend up to $10 billion to buy back or repair the affected cars. The company will buy back the cars at the National Automobile Dealers Association clean trade-in price before the cheating was made public on Sept. 18, 2015.

Some owners have objected, saying they should receive the full purchase price of their vehicles. Mark Dietrich, an Audi owner from San Francisco, told the judge last week that Volkswagen played owners for fools and the settlement didn't go far enough to compensate them for the company's fraud.

But Volkswagen attorney Robert Giuffra encouraged Breyer to approve the deal, saying it was good for buyers and would help the company regain people's trust.

The settlement also includes $2.7 billion for unspecified environmental mitigation and an additional $2 billion to promote zero-emissions vehicles.

The scandal has damaged Volkswagen's reputation and hurt its sales. The company is still facing potentially billions more in fines and penalties and possible criminal charges.

The company said in April that it has set aside $18.2 billion to cover the cost of the global scandal, which erupted in September 2015 when the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said Volkswagen had fitted many of its cars with software to fool emissions tests. Car owners and the U.S. Department of Justice sued.

The software recognized when the cars were being tested on a treadmill and turned on pollution controls. The controls were turned off when the cars returned to the road. The EPA alleged the scheme let the cars spew more than 40 times the allowable limit of nitrogen oxide, which can cause respiratory problems in humans.

Through September of this year, VW Group's sales in the U.S. are down nearly 7 percent from 2015 figures to just under 386,000. The Volkswagen brand fared worse, with sales down 12.5 percent to just over 231,000, according to Autodata Corp. The VW group includes the Audi, VW, Bentley and Lamborghini brands.

 

[IS-SV]

^ Yes VW's claim to fame. Largest civil settlement in automotive history.

(Otherwise a non-event in Bay Area / Silicon Valley, since VW was hardly much of an innovator even before fraud case).

 

[mmcartalk]

^ Yes VW's claim to fame. Largest civil settlement in automotive history.

I terms of absolute $$$$ paid out, yes, this will probably turn out to be the most expensive settlement in automotive history....especially if and when any more dollars are added by subsequent rulings on the same issue. My own personal opinion, though, (and I'm old enough to remember the Ford Pinto well, when I was in college) was that what Ford's management did with the Pinto's gas tank, after explicit warnings from their own engineers and lawyers, was even worse from a pure criminal and negligent point of view. I'd rather breathe in a few extra diesel emissions here and there, even if they are toxic, than go up in a fireball because some cheap-a** executives wouldn't OK a couple of inexpensive parts to shield the fuel tank, even if that meant slightly exceeding cost and weight goals in the design.

I don't want to get too far off-topic, but, if you have not read Lee Iacocca's book, "Iacocca", I highly recommend it. He did many years at Ford, and you wouldn't believe how Henry Ford II ran what was essentially his own personal fiefdom, which he describes in great detail.

 

[IS-SV]

I terms of absolute $$$$ paid out, yes, this will probably turn out to be the most expensive settlement in automotive history.....

Regarding the actual topic here, the word PROBABLY is incorrect. Correct word should be IS as of today 10/26/16.

 

[mmcartalk]

Regarding the actual topic here, the word PROBABLY is incorrect. Correct word should be IS as of today 10/26/16.

I used the term "probably" instead of "definitely" because there are still some issues tied up in courts (or being appealed) from settlements involving other manufacturers. There's no way to really gauge an exact figure on that. But, yes, in the end, this mess from VW will almost certainly be one of the most expensive (or THE most expensive) in history. I'll just end by saying I'm glad I'm not paying the bills LOL.

 

[IS-SV]

I used the term "probably" instead of "definitely" because there are still some issues tied up in courts (or being appealed) from settlements involving other manufacturers. There's no way to really gauge an exact figure on that. But, yes, in the end, this mess from VW will almost certainly be one of the most expensive (or THE most expensive) in history.

LOL on the (added) waffling , but let us know when you actually find an automotive industry civil that was even close to this VW civil settlement.

 

[IS-SV]

We already know about German government and cozy relationship with VW and past lax attitude towards passenger car diesel emissions. But now German prosecutors are investigating execs and securities law violations, interesting how that gets taken more seriously.

 

[CIF]

Being reported in various news outlets that a new emissions cheat device has been found on Audis, which is separate from the other VW/Audi cheat device. This device apparently changes the emissions of the vehicle based on whether the steering wheel is being turned or not. Unreal that the VW group was using several cheat devices of varying designs to cheat emissions. Things are about to get worse for VW Group, as Audi is their cash cow for profits.

 

[Gecko]

Report: New defeat device discovered in Audi transmission

If a report from Bild am Sonntag is to be believed, the Volkswagen Group is about to be rocked by another emissions cheating scandal.

The German publication (via Reuters) on Sunday reported that the California Air Resources Board (CARB) discovered a transmission-linked defeat device in an Audi vehicle last summer.

The new defeat device is said to be a piece of software that causes the transmission to enter a low-performance mode designed to deliver low carbon dioxide emissions whenever the engine is started, in both diesel and gasoline cars.

The transmission only switches to a regular mode with higher performance and CO2 levels if the steering wheel is turned in any direction more than 15 degrees, such as in regular driving. It’s only on a laboratory testbed where a car drives with zero inputs to the steering.

Bild am Sonntag claims Audi stopped using the device in May 2016 and suspended several engineers in connection with the matter.

The VW Group only in October reached an agreed-upon settlement for its 2.0-liter diesel engines fitted with the defeat device that was first made public in September 2015. However, the automaker is yet to reach an agreement for its 3.0-liter engines with the defeat device.

Furthermore, the VW Group is also facing investigations in the financial sector over disclosure obligations to shareholders regarding information linked to the original defeat device. The automaker on Sunday announced that a probe launched in June by German prosecutors against former CEO Martin Winterkorn and VW brand head Herbert Diess now includes Hans Dieter Pötsch, Chairman of the Supervisory Board.

Stay tuned for an update.


Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1107126_report-new-defeat-device-discovered-in-audi-transmission

 

[Gecko]

VW admits Audi transmission distorts emissions during tests

On November 6, German media first reported that certain automatic transmissions used in gasoline- and diesel-powered Audi cars had software that could determine whether the car was being tested by regulators and then switch to a more economical shift program in order to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

The Volkswagen Group has since confirmed that Audi does have transmissions that distort emission levels when cars are being tested.

"Adaptive shift programs can lead to incorrect and non-reproducible results" when the cars are tested, the VW Group confirmed to Reuters via email on Sunday.

In the email, the VW Group said it was in talks with and providing technical details of the adaptive shift programs to regulators in Germany as part of a government-led investigation in response to the media reports.

Adaptive shift programs are designed to change transmission shifting patterns either to boost fuel economy or performance. They often form part of driving modes selectors.

However, Bild am Sonntag, which first reported about the Audi transmissions, claimed the California Air Resources Board discovered software that made the transmissions enter a low-performance mode designed to deliver low CO2 emissions whenever the engine is started and only switch to standard performance if the steering wheel is turned more than 15 degrees in either direction, which wouldn’t be the case during laboratory testing.

Reuters, citing two people familiar with the matter, reported that regulators in the United States were seeking more information to determine whether the software constitutes a defeat device.

The software is different to the original “defeat device” found in millions of diesels cars from the VW Group that was designed to detect whether a car was being tested and then hide nitrogen oxide levels. The VW Group only in October reached an agreed-upon settlement for its 2.0-liter engines fitted with this defeat device. However, the automaker is yet to reach an agreement for its 3.0-liter engines with the device.

Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-transmission-distorts-emissions-during-tests

 

[CIF]

At this point, I don't think anyone, including VW, knows how deep and how long this crisis will go on for. The fact that they didn't admit to this new Audi cheat device once this whole crisis started is incredible.

 

[mmcartalk]

However, Bild am Sonntag, which first reported about the Audi transmissions, claimed the California Air Resources Board discovered software that made the transmissions enter a low-performance mode designed to deliver low CO2 emissions whenever the engine is started and only switch to standard performance if the steering wheel is turned more than 15 degrees in either direction, which wouldn’t be the case during laboratory testing.

Unless the vehicle is FWD and the front wheels are spinning on rollers (and full-time AWD vehicles are usually exempt from the roller-tests because of possible driveline damage, getting a simple tailpipe-probe instead) moving the wheel left and right during the test shouldn't be an issue. I don't know why they don't do it....there's certainly nothing stopping them. Some test-bays don't even use rollers at all any more, and have converted to other methods.

 

[IS-SV]

Unless the vehicle is FWD and the front wheels are spinning on rollers (and full-time AWD vehicles are usually exempt from the roller-tests because of possible driveline damage, getting a simple tailpipe-probe instead) moving the wheel left and right during the test shouldn't be an issue. I don't know why they don't do it....there's certainly nothing stopping them. Some test-bays don't even use rollers at all any more, and have converted to other methods.

No longer case in CA for current and late model cars (since topic involves California Resources Board and related smog tests). No rollers and/or exhaust probe sniffer used today at smog stations for cars under 10 years old, they tap directly into the car's computer and measure output.

 

[mmcartalk]

No longer case in CA for current and late model cars (since topic involves California Resources Board and related smog tests). No rollers and/or exhaust probe sniffer used today at smog stations for cars under 10 years old, they tap directly into the car's computer and measure output.

Not surprising.....though a few other Northeastern states have recently joined them, CARB has always had what are arguably the strictest emissions tests in the country....more so than the EPA itself.

It's a shame that this scandal has to (also) now include Audi transmissions ......IMO, VW and Audi, for years, with the DSG/S-Tronics, have produced some of the slickest-shifting and smoothest-operating dual-clutch auto-manuals in the business. The initial DSGs, several years ago, were even smoother then the latest ones. Contrast that, for example, with the unreliable, Clunk-O-Matic dual-clutch transmissions in the Ford Focus and Fiesta.

 

[oem_is300]

No longer case in CA for current and late model cars (since topic involves California Resources Board and related smog tests). No rollers and/or exhaust probe sniffer used today at smog stations for cars under 10 years old, they tap directly into the car's computer and measure output.

Yup. From my understanding up here in northern virginia where we also get emissions testing done, the car is just checked via OBD-2 for readiness and a visual test done to make sure all emissions equipment is installed.

 

[mmcartalk]

..........And the saga just goes on and on. : unamused:

VW's latest move to cut costs is to cut some 30,000 jobs, though that will be partly compensated by some 9000 new jobs for research and development of electric cars.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/18/news/volkswagen-job-cuts/

Volkswagen is cutting 30,000 jobs over the next three years as it tries to boost profits in the wake of a huge emissions scandal. Europe's largest automaker said Friday the cuts were needed to reduce costs as it works to overhaul its plants in Germany.

The vast majority of the job cuts -- 23,000 -- will come in its home market. The company said reductions in Germany had been agreed with union leaders and will be achieved by voluntary redundancies, closing positions as they become vacant and early retirement.

The measures should boost profits by 3.7 billion euros ($3.9 billion) a year from 2020, and productivity at its German plants by 25%, the company said in a statement.

Volkswagen (VLKAY) employs more than 610,000 workers worldwide.

Related: Volkswagen chairman proved over emissions scandal

The automaker is facing tens of billions in fines and compensation payments after it was found to be cheating on emissions tests.

As part of the restructuring, it will also invest about 3.5 billion euros in areas such as electric cars, components and battery systems, creating 9,000 new positions in Germany.

 

[IS-SV]

^ Yep, we saw that coming as mentioned in earlier posts here. Even with those cuts VW (VW-branded vehicles specifically ) will still not come close to productivity and profitability of Toyota.

 

[mmcartalk]

^ Yep, we saw that coming as mentioned in earlier posts here. Even with those cuts VW (VW-branded vehicles specifically ) will still not come close to productivity and profitability of Toyota.

Unlike Toyota, though, VW and Audi have (or, at least, had) plants in Germany with much higher labor costs. Germany has some of the highest labor costs (and most powerful unions) in the world. Audi, several years ago, moved TT production out of Germany, to lower-cost Hungary, but that was basically just one plant.

 

[IS-SV]

Unlike Toyota, though, VW and Audi have (or, at least, had) plants in Germany with much higher labor costs. Germany has some of the highest labor costs (and most powerful unions) in the world. Audi, several years ago, moved TT production out of Germany, to lower-cost Hungary, but that was basically just one plant.

Which is why VW is using serious financial pressures created by diesel fraud fiasco to justify cuts unsupported by unions.