German Big 3 automakers emissions cheating disaster Master Thread

corradoMR2

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Volkswagen Canada halts some sales as emissions rigging scandal deepens


VW chief 'deeply sorry' after EPA accuses company of rigging emissions tests

Volkswagen Canada has stopped sales of many of its diesel models in this country following revelations late last week that the automaker had rigged emissions tests for almost 500,000 diesel cars in the U.S.

"Volkswagen Canada has issued a stop-sale order to our dealers for all of the affected vehicles pending resolution of this matter," company spokesman Thomas Tetzlaff said in an email to CBC News on Monday.



The stop-sale order came three days after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) revealed that half a million diesel-powered VWs had been programmed to bypass emission controls, except during emissions tests.

The cars include the Audi A3, VW Jetta, Beetle, Golf and Passat models made in the last seven years.

Environment Canada said on Friday it was in talks with the EPA "to further examine this issue and assess potential implications for Canada."

Environment Canada also told CBC News it collaborates on emissions verification activities with the U.S. EPA "to ensure our common environmental outcomes are achieved," and pointed out that its emissions standards are aligned with U.S. standards.

The EPA and Environment Canada both stressed that the effectiveness of a vehicle's air pollutant control devices is not a safety issue. The cars remain legal to drive.

Volkswagen CEO 'deeply sorry'
Volkswagen's CEO has apologized but investors were not in a forgiving mood as the company's stock plunged almost 20 per cent Monday.

"I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public," Martin Winterkorn said in a weekend statement.

The EPA ordered VW to fix the cars and VW said it would co-operate with regulators. But the damage to the automaker's image is nothing less than catastrophic.

VW had marketed its diesel-powered cars as being better for the environment. The Associated Press reports, citing an anonymous source with knowledge of the matter, that VW has told dealers to stop selling its 2015 diesel cars with 2.0-litre engines.

The EPA said the VW cars under investigation seemed to pass emissions tests, but in the real world, were actually emitting up to 40 times the national standard for nitrogen oxide, which is linked to asthma and lung illnesses.

Consumer Reports announced it would remove its "recommended" rating from the Jetta and Passat diesels until it can retest the vehicles.

VW could face fines of up to $18 billion US, according to the EPA.

Volkswagen shares plunged 19.4 per cent in Monday trading in Germany, chopping $21 billion Cdn from the market value of the company.

"The company will have to recall nearly 500,000 affected cars, which will cost it millions of dollars, and that's even before the damage to its brand and potential fines," said Michael Hewson, chief market analyst at CMC Markets.

Diesel-powered models account for about a quarter of VW's sales.

On Monday, the EPA announced it would test other diesel vehicles to see if they are using the same kind of "defeat device" software that deceived regulators in the VW case.

A Seattle-based law firm announced Monday it has filed a nationwide class action complaint against Volkswagen Group of America, Inc., alleging that the automaker "deliberately deceived" consumers and regulators by installing defeat devices in 482,000 Volkswagen and Audi vehicles.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volkswagen-emissions-rigging-1.3236548
 
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IS-SV

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Let's see how this plays out after its home country/Germany investigates....
Because not sure how these diesel engines could meet (legally) Euro6 regs.
 
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IS-SV

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CR pulled recommend ratings....
Too bad CR could of tried doing something more useful from an automotive standpoint, besides the very good reliability data charts. Skip the top 10 lists.

Like verifying VW TDI emissions output on the road based on actual cars they bought (since they always note subject test cars were purchased through normal channels). Instrumented testing upgrade, just a thought...
 

mmcartalk

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Too bad CR could of tried doing something more useful from an automotive standpoint, besides the very good reliability data charts.
In general, CR has been critical of both VW's reliability and customer-satisfaction level with their dealerships. Just a couple of years ago (can't remember exactly when), they stated that used VWs, in general, were more unreliable than those of any other make........although it was unclear if that also included notoriously bad Jaguar and Land Rover, which sometimes don't have enough owner-input for CR's database.
 

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VW's stock on the European exchanges is going down the drain, at least in the short run. A shame, too, for many run-of-the-mill investors who owned that stock, as it isn't their fault, either, that VW designers decided to cheat. Now they are stuck with cheap shares...probably a lot less than they paid for them. They probably were, in most cases, simply caught in the middle as ordinary investors, between two huge forces in the government and auto industry....though it is generally well-known that investing in the auto industry (as with many other stocks as well) can be risky business.

Anyhow, though, if they hang on to their shares right now and don't sell, there's at least a chance that the shares will come back up again to reasonable level, if not their full former value....but that will probably take some time. If they do sell and take a loss, in the U.S., IRS laws will let them deduct the first $3000 of capital losses on their returns......laws in other countries, of course, may vary.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/21/vw-stock-plummets-euro-markets-open/

The fallout from Volkswagen's installation of an emissions "defeat device" on nearly 500,000 diesel-fueled models in the US is already hitting the automaker hard on the German stock exchange. At one point, the share price plummeted 23 percent to erase the equivalent of $17.6 billion in value. Things eventually bounced back slightly to a still severe 19.23 percent loss, according to Bloomberg as of this writing.

The scandal couldn't come at a worse time for chairman Martin Winterkorn. The VW supervisory board takes up the issue of renewing his contract on September 25, Bloomberg reports. If things get bad enough, the door could be open for a new boss to step in.

Dealers in the US might start feeling the pain from this, as well. Affected 2015 VWs that are still at showrooms are now under a stop sale. Until the issue is straightened out, the Environmental Protection Agency isn't certifying the company's 2016 diesel models with the 2.0 TDI, either.

The diesel emissions problem was first discovered by research from West Virginia University and the International Council on Clean Transportation. In some cases, the engines can produce 40 times more nitrogen oxides than allowed. The automaker could be on the hook for $18 billion in fines for the breach, but the actual figure is expected to be lower.

In response, Winterkorn has issued a public apology and ordered an independent investigation into what happened. The EPA and California Air Resources Board have also been looking into the situation. This could become an international problem, though. According to The Detroit News,European authorities might begin similar inquires to check the automaker's diesel emissions there.
 

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^ Yes, it's also a shame that subject TDI owners in US and Canada got screwed. Some of the environmentally conscience will decide not to drive the cars until fixed. Selling the car now with its instant depreciation hit will be one option that some will consider, an expensive option to rid themselves of the problem.

Since much of the stock is closely held, I tend to have more concern for owners.
 
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mmcartalk

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^ Yes, it's also a shame that subject TDI owners in US and Canada got screwed. Some of the environmentally conscience will decide not to drive the cars until fixed. Selling the car now with its instant depreciation hit will be one option that some will consider, an expensive option to rid themselves of the problem.

Since most of the stock is not traded on open market, I tend to have more concern for owners.
Owners will probably take more of a hit than those leasing their cars. At the end of the lease, one can simply take their car back to the dealer, and, assuming they don't have too much wear-and-tear damage or exceeded the mileage in the lease-contract, simply turn in the keys/fobs and walk away. If the cars have depreciated more than VW or the dealership originally figured on in the lease payments, then that's not the leasee's problem....the dealer and/or the manufacturer has to eat the difference. In fact, those leasees will have actually made out on the deal by not paying the full-depreciation value in the lease. Owners, though, who are not leasing, could face a markedly different situation with depressed trade-in values, or trying to sell their vehicles themselves to people who may be afraid to buy them. Of course, once the vehicles are recalled to install new software (if it comes to that, which seems likely), they might then be a little easier to re-sell.
 

IS-SV

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Owners will probably take more of a hit than those leasing their cars. At the end of the lease, one can simply take their car back to the dealer, and, assuming they don't have too much wear-and-tear damage or exceeded the mileage in the lease-contract, simply turn in the keys/fobs and walk away. If the cars have depreciated more than VW or the dealership originally figured on in the lease payments, then that's not the leasee's problem....the dealer and/or the manufacturer has to eat the difference. In fact, they will have made out on the deal by not paint the full-depreciation value in the lease. Owners, though, who are not leasing, could face a markedly different situation with depressed trade-in values, or trying to sell their vehicles themselves to people who may be afraid to buy them. Of course, once the vehicles are recalled (if it comes to that, and that seems likely, to install new software), they might be a little easier to re-sell.
I don't think leasing is a big portion of TDI sales, but certainly end of lease has options that are spelled out in contract (not that they want to hang on til that date)

The more common scenario is TDI owners would like to be rid if this embarrassment of a car now ideally.

Either buy or lease, they got screwed.
 

CIF

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This is just the tip of the iceberg guys and gals. More and more tidbits keep coming out, showing this to be an ever-growing story and scandal. By the way, ALL VW-related scandal news can be posted in this thread.
 

mmcartalk

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Funny, yes, though maybe a little exaggerated. In parts of China, for instance, people have to wear gas masks for real.
 

IS-SV

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image.jpeg ^ Yep sadly funny, I don't want the crap in my lungs or spoiling my view since a lot has been done here to clean up air (effectively) in past couple decades, not that VW cares...
 

mmcartalk

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View attachment 854 ^ Yep sadly funny, I don't want the crap in my lungs or spoiling my view since a lot has been done here to clean up air (effectively) in past couple decades, not that VW cares...

Your part of CA (probably) was not as bad as the L.A. basin used to be. Until the last 30 or 40 years, when emissions laws began to really take effect, that basin was one of the smoggiest in the country. The dirtiest air I've seen on the East Coast is probably Newark, NJ, with the smokestacks from the oil-refineries there going full-blast. We have a literally tremendous number of vehicles in the D.C. area (both diesels and gas).......but still relatively mild air-pollution compared to some areas because of a lack of classic smokestack industries....this area is mostly government and high-tech contractors.

Nice picture, BTW. :)
 

Gecko

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I'm reading that emissions may actually be 40 times the legal limit? FORTY TIMES.
 

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11M VW diesels affected, Porsche and Audi under investigation

Volkswagen's diesel scandal is growing exponentially larger. In a new statement, the company admits that 11 million vehicles worldwide might be equipped with software capable of evading emissions testing. In addition, the Environmental Protection Agency is beginning an investigation into the 3.0-liter V6 inAudi models and the Porsche Cayenne in the US, according to The Detroit News.

The automaker claims that from its investigation so far, the "relevant engine management software is also installed in otherVolkswagen Group vehicles with diesel engines." However, the company finds that the "noticeable deviation" in test results and real-world numbers only relates to the Type EA 189 powerplant. That still leaves 11 million vehicles potentially skirting emissions rules, though.

Governments around the world have started taking a closer look into the company, too. In the US, the EPA has begun testing VW's V6 diesel because "they were certified well before we knew what we know now," Christopher Grundler, director of the EPA's Office of Transportation and Air Quality, said to The Detroit News. The agency has started checking diesels from other automakers to make sure they're meeting the rules, as well. Germany, the European Union, and South Korea have instituted similar investigations.

In response, VW is setting aside 6.5 billion euros ($7.25 billion at current rates) to cover servicing all of these diesels. The company admits that the figure might have to be adjusted depending on what happens next. The money is being deducted from its third-quarter earnings.


Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/22/11m-vw-diesels-affected-porsche-audi-under-investigation/
 

mikeavelli

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I lol'd at that picture!!!

This is a complete disaster, completely unethical and will have aftershocks for years to come. All lies.
 

IS-SV

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Your part of CA (probably) was not as bad as the L.A. basin used to be. Until the last 30 or 40 years, when emissions laws began to really take effect, that basin was one of the smoggiest in the country. The dirtiest air I've seen on the East Coast is probably Newark, NJ, with the smokestacks from the oil-refineries there going full-blast. We have a literally tremendous number of vehicles in the D.C. area (both diesels and gas).......but still relatively mild air-pollution compared to some areas because of a lack of classic smokestack industries....this area is mostly government and high-tech contractors.

Nice picture, BTW. :)
Yes our air in Silicon Valley was/is much cleaner than LA, no thanks to VW TDI POS (subject here). No smokestack industries here and stringent auto smog testing. Fresh bay/ocean breezes also are a factor too.

In US EPA said they will work closely with DOJ (criminal charges) on VW disaster.

International aspect of this disaster is growing, with South Korea now investigating per tv news this morning. Every tv news broadcast is regularly updating viewers on VW fiasco now. Free advertising of the worst kind.
 
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