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Having watched Sofyan's reviews for a few years and then meeting him in Plano, I think his anti-Toyota/Lexus bias is starting to show more than he realizes. Everything Toyota/Lexus is slow/old/underpowered/unimpressive/door doesn't close with a satisfying "clunk" but everything from Honda and Hyundai is the holy grail.

I watched his TLX Type S video(s) and he talked at length about how incredible it was being a "former" Honda and VTEC fanboy and getting to drive the new Type S, and made very light of the car's lack of tech features (something he dogs Toyota/Lexus for) and weight.

It seems most recently, he even got another TLX Type S to drive around to see how low he could get for 0-60 times because his first run didn't seem satisfying enough (at the launch event). Since when does automotive media keep re-testing cars to get the lowest numbers possible? It would be nice for someone to give Lexus that special treatment.
 

Faisal Sheikh

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Having watched Sofyan's reviews for a few years and then meeting him in Plano, I think his anti-Toyota/Lexus bias is starting to show more than he realizes. Everything Toyota/Lexus is slow/old/underpowered/unimpressive/door doesn't close with a satisfying "clunk" but everything from Honda and Hyundai is the holy grail.

I watched his TLX Type S video(s) and he talked at length about how incredible it was being a "former" Honda and VTEC fanboy and getting to drive the new Type S, and made very light of the car's lack of tech features (something he dogs Toyota/Lexus for) and weight.

It seems most recently, he even got another TLX Type S to drive around to see how low he could get for 0-60 times because his first run didn't seem satisfying enough (at the launch event). Since when does automotive media keep re-testing cars to get the lowest numbers possible? It would be nice for someone to give Lexus that special treatment.

There might be a few Honda fans like Sofyan who are still trying to convince people of what the car is not, but the cat is out of the bag. Way too much evidence now that it is not what the car was marketed as. Honestly, I think there is a disconnect in the Honda/Acura world between the R&D department and the marketing department. If you think of the car as a bit sportier and higher performing version of the TLX, it totally makes sense. However, the marketing division tried to market it for the last 12 months as an mid-tier S4 or m340i fighter, which is where all the expectations went wrong.

Like you said, for many years I never liked Sofyan. Good he admits he was a big Honda fanboi since I could see how inconsistent he was in his review. For example, many years ago he gave lavish praises on the previous generation Acura TL with the 3.7 Liter V6 and SH-AWD. Yet, was far less than enthusiastic about the IS350 F-Sport. I stopped watching is videos a while back.

I still think Lexus fans should be thankful Acura decided to make the TLX Type S. Because Lexus created IS500 F-Sport as a reaction to that since Lexus wants to remain the dominant player in the Japanese luxury brand market and I think IS500 will have a field day in this segment hopefully.
 
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There might be a few Honda fans like Sofyan who are still trying to convince people of what the car is not, but the cat is out of the bag. Way too much evidence now that it is not what the car was marketed as. Honestly, I think there is a disconnect in the Honda/Acura world between the R&D department and the marketing department. If you think of the car as a bit sportier and higher performing version of the TLX, it totally makes sense. However, the marketing division tried to market it for the last 12 months as an mid-tier S4 or m340i fighter, which is where all the expectations went wrong.

Like you said, for many years I never liked Sofyan. Good he admits he was a big Honda fanboi since I could see how inconsistent he was in his review. For example, many years ago he gave lavish praises on the previous generation Acura TL with the 3.7 Liter V6 and SH-AWD. Yet, was far less than enthusiastic about the IS350 F-Sport. I stopped watching is videos a while back.
Do you prefer SG's review instead?
 

GNS

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Between the two, I would go IS500 any time. It's a NA dual injection V8 shoved into a compact RWD-platform car that happens to be made in Japan. The TLX Type-S is none of the above. Its advantages include SH-AWD and price - that's it.
 

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I still think Lexus fans should be thankful Acura decided to make the TLX Type S. Because Lexus created IS500 F-Sport as a reaction to that since Lexus wants to remain the dominant player in the Japanese luxury brand market and I think IS500 will have a field day in this segment hopefully.

The IS 500 was planned without any thought about Acura. To the team at USA’s credit they wanted a fun, RWD V-8 back in the lineup. Honestly the car doesn’t really have any head on competition,
 

Gecko

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A few of you and some of the media have hit this (savagegeese, Throttle House) on the head: the primary problem with the TLX Type S is a disconnect between product and product marketing.

The TLX Type S is still a good car, especially when you look at the price. The problem is that it's sitting in no-mans-land: between something like an ES 350 F SPORT and then the M340i, S4 and IS 500. With regard to sales, maybe being in between the two segments will work out for Acura, but hyping it against the latter mentioned vehicles for the sake of marketing has set it up to fail. Being an enthusiast-oriented product, the marketing and GTM strategy do matter, and then that.... impacts sales.

There's a fairly easy way to fix this, and it's to crank up the boost another few psi to 400hp or greater to offset the weight gain and increase the performance. That brings me to the engine, which is still just positively mind boggling because it too is in no-mans-land and makes no sense as an all-new engine: low on power and MPG at the same time?

The logic is circular I guess. You end up coming back to the product just not being able to cash the checks that marketing wrote.
 

mikeavelli

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A few of you and some of the media have hit this (savagegeese, Throttle House) on the head: the primary problem with the TLX Type S is a disconnect between product and product marketing.

The TLX Type S is still a good car, especially when you look at the price. The problem is that it's sitting in no-mans-land: between something like an ES 350 F SPORT and then the M340i, S4 and IS 500. With regard to sales, maybe being in between the two segments will work out for Acura, but hyping it against the latter mentioned vehicles for the sake of marketing has set it up to fail. Being an enthusiast-oriented product, the marketing and GTM strategy do matter, and then that.... impacts sales.

There's a fairly easy way to fix this, and it's to crank up the boost another few psi to 400hp or greater to offset the weight gain and increase the performance. That brings me to the engine, which is still just positively mind boggling because it too is in no-mans-land and makes no sense as an all-new engine: low on power and MPG at the same time?

The logic is circular I guess. You end up coming back to the product just not being able to cash the checks that marketing wrote.
Agreed. If they would stfu and just sell the car it’s not bad.
The funny thing is 80% sold will look like this, a basic fwd model I just happened to park next too.

0D23BC91-E72D-423F-B908-C86801CA5DBA.jpeg
 
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Agreed. If they would stfu and just sell the car it’s not bad.
The funny thing is 80% sold will look like this, a basic fwd model I just happened to park next too.
And there's 80% more 2021 IS's than TLXs on the road...I can count one instance that I spotted a new TLX, but I've seen more the new IS, and many of them F Sports, so I'm even surprised to see that many since most of the vehicles in the area are trucks.

Speaking of which, how much mark up have Type S owners been paying?
1627954037872.png
1627954054381.png
 
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ssun30

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They should put a detuned variant of that engine on regular TLX/MDX. From their official video it seems they have a very large assembly line for this engine. I don't think sales figure of Type-S is going to justify that investment...
 

Ian Schmidt

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I think it’s because many grew up in moms accord and got a civic.

The 30-somethings that dominate automotive YouTube grew up with great and affordable bubble-era Japanese cars (Civic, Supra, WRX/STI, Evo). That kind of attainable benchmark hadn't really been seen since the 60s muscle era, so I totally get it.
 

internalaudit

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Between the two, I would go IS500 any time. It's a NA dual injection V8 shoved into a compact RWD-platform car that happens to be made in Japan. The TLX Type-S is none of the above. Its advantages include SH-AWD and price - that's it.

Yes, besides the price, the only draw of the TLX Type S for me would be the SH-AWD. Lexus is even ahead of Acura offering touch screen input in a few of its models. As much as I won't be fiddling with it while driving, it's just more intuitive than having to control the cursor or input with a pad.

I saw an IS300 AWD a few weeks ago and the rear tail light design definitely looks better in person. Front end looks swell even in the photos.

I'm anxiously waiting for Lexus to offer more vehicles with TVD's (be it ICEVs, HEVs, PHEVs or BEVs) but I'll probably wait for Lexus BEVs with TVD's. I think Porsche's PTV Plus is partially brake-based torque vectoring anyway (based on the $1700 CAD option pricing) and even Honda has the AHA even on the lowly Civic. Besides brake fade (and additional cost, which could be charged as add-on since many buyers don't care about that), I don't know what drawbacks there are to include even the most basic brake-based torque vectoring.
 

Faisal Sheikh

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I'm anxiously waiting for Lexus to offer more vehicles with TVD's (be it ICEVs, HEVs, PHEVs or BEVs) but I'll probably wait for Lexus BEVs with TVD's. I think Porsche's PTV Plus is partially brake-based torque vectoring anyway (based on the $1700 CAD option pricing) and even Honda has the AHA even on the lowly Civic. Besides brake fade (and additional cost, which could be charged as add-on since many buyers don't care about that), I don't know what drawbacks there are to include even the most basic brake-based torque vectoring.

Brake based is a cost effective way to get the car to rotate while steering through a turn. The downside is, when you apply brakes on the inner wheels, you are dragging the inner wheels partially so that means it drops your cornering speeds meaning slower lap time. A proper torque vectoring differential like the one originally developed for the RCF, uses additional torque through motors to make the inner wheel or outer wheel turn faster depending on whether you are braking/entering a turn, going through the turn and accelerating out of the turn. In cornering entry and braking, it even applies reverse torque.
 

internalaudit

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Brake based is a cost effective way to get the car to rotate while steering through a turn. The downside is, when you apply brakes on the inner wheels, you are dragging the inner wheels partially so that means it drops your cornering speeds meaning slower lap time. A proper torque vectoring differential like the one originally developed for the RCF, uses additional torque through motors to make the inner wheel or outer wheel turn faster depending on whether you are braking/entering a turn, going through the turn and accelerating out of the turn. In cornering entry and braking, it even applies reverse torque.
Thanks, got it. Lexus needs to take baby steps.

I guess I should have been more clear. I'm not talking about real high performance vehicles like your RCF that people will track. Heck, like I mentioned, even the 2022 Civic has it. :)

At least make the UX, ES, etc. a little more dynamic to drive (maybe that means less understeer) when not traveling on a straight path.

PTV Plus does sound like real torque vectoring but I've read a few discussions where some said it was more brake-based.
https://www.porschefremont.com/porsche-torque-vectoring/

Surprised Porsche Canada offers it as a $1700 upgrade but many of the used Macan descriptions on autotrader don't mention it. I guess people usually leave PTV Plus out.
 
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carguy420

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Agreed. I’ve stated for years that the media has some weird Honda/Acura fetish. I think it’s because many grew up in moms accord and got a civic. It makes just no sense. Honda and Acura today are NOTHING like the 1990s brand we loved. They rarely ever call them out for it. Meanwhile if Toyota or Lexus has a cassette player it’s the end of the world.

Also note, Lexus got slammed for the touch pad and Acura copied the exact same thing and there is no screaming about it. Somehow it’s acceptable.

Has Acura even released performance figures yet? I don’t think we have a NSX Nurburgring time either. Their marketing department screams this performance angle including their SUVS which is ridiculous. If you go to the Tlx website they are really stretching comparisons with the Germans. It’s like they must think people are stupid. Or maybe they think their fans are.

in comparison, Audi doesn’t scream about the S4. They take a nice sleeper approach. BMW doesn’t really promote the M440i as some beast even tho it really is. Lexus barely whispered the IS 500 until it launched and has been quiet since.

Acura and their fanboys? For 12 months we got ads and yelling how “TYPE- S IS BACK” when quite frankly, no one cared it left.

What a joke. Talk about over promising and under delivering.

Finally, again, the irony is this seems compelling against its true competition , the Lexus ES F SPORT or even the IS 350 F SPORT. Not the Germans and not the IS 500
In my country Malaysia, it's not only the media fanboying over Hondas but the majority of the public, people here are so brainwashed by "tHe PoWeR oF dReAmS" that they still think Honda is "no.1"(whatever TF that actually means) and they buy more Hondas than Toyotas, probably the only market in this world where Honda sells more vehicles than Toyota, it's absolutely ridiculous.
 
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In my country Malaysia, it's not only the media fanboying over Hondas but the majority of the public, people here are so brainwashed by "tHe PoWeR oF dReAmS" that they still think Honda is "no.1"(whatever TF that actually means) and they buy more Hondas than Toyotas, probably the only market in this world where Honda sells more vehicles than Toyota, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I was going to say, does Toyota have an "Uncle/Auntie" association? I still remember the video of the Auntie Parking Fail, but that was an RX in Brunei, but the connotation might carry to Malaysia as well.
 

carguy420

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I was going to say, does Toyota have an "Uncle/Auntie" association? I still remember the video of the Auntie Parking Fail, but that was an RX in Brunei, but the connotation might carry to Malaysia as well.
Ugh, that stereotype is so strong here in Malaysia that I don't really want to talk about it, but in Singapore Toyota's reputation is a lot more positive than in Malaysia. Majority of Malaysians perceive Honda as cool, hip, fast and sporty even though most of their vehicles are boring as hell and have average performance(many people here think their City, Jazz/Fit, HR-V and base model Civic are something high performance lol), while Toyota is seen as dependable but boring, slow, underpowered and made for old people even though that's not the case most of the time, but then again most people here are country bumpkins with outdated mindsets so their perceptions won't change much no matter what happens.
 
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Ugh, that stereotype is so strong here in Malaysia that I don't really want to talk about it, but in Singapore Toyota's reputation is a lot more positive than in Malaysia. Majority of Malaysians perceive Honda as cool, hip, fast and sporty even though most of their vehicles are boring as hell and have average performance(many people here think their City, Jazz/Fit, HR-V and base model Civic are something high performance lol), while Toyota is seen as dependable but boring, slow, underpowered and made for old people even though that's not the case most of the time, but then again most people here are country bumpkins with outdated mindsets so their perceptions won't change much no matter what happens.
Is that right? Or most people Perodua buyers?
 

carguy420

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Is that right? Or most people Perodua buyers?
Yes, they are, and oh boy those Peroduas sure managed to attract real "special" groups of people, they think their cheap econoboxes are hot hatchbacks or something based on the way they drive, especially the Myvi drivers, and because of the way these people drive and how bad most Peroduas handle, it's very common to see news of those people spinning out their cars, crashing into barriers, guardrails, walls, trees, other vehicles on the road, falling into big drains, you name it. My family had owned a 1st gen Myvi for a few years as my sister's college car before dumping it and it is truly the crappiest, lowest quality car we've ever owned, everything on that car shakes and rattles like its going to fall apart, it's slow, noisy, feels like it's going to flip over in the corners, rides like a pogo stick and the floorpan is so thin that water splashing onto the underside of the car makes it vibrate quite strongly, but if you make any criticism based on proper facts the Perodua keyboard warriors are going to absolutely annihilate you for pointing out the weak points of their cars. I seriously can't fathom how a bunch of cheap, crappy econoboxes can even attract such a following, Perodua's strategy to sell as many cars as they can is to make their cars look like attractive on the surface, offering many "enticing" but not always useful features as standard and of course to make sure their cars stay affordable they cost cut the hell out of most of the important aspects of a car😂.