Gecko

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2021-05-24-lexus-is-500-vs-type-s-1024x379.jpg

It’s certainly a good time for fans of Japanese performance vehicles, and no, we aren’t talking about the Civic Type R, upcoming Nissan Z, Supra or rumors of a high performance Toyota Corolla GR. Those might have been some the nameplates we lusted over in the 1990s, but Lexus and Acura have both recently released very grown up sport sedans that are tugging at the heartstrings — and wallets – of fans of those iconic models.
With that in mind, something of a crosstown rivalry has been brewing over the last few months with rumors of Lexus launching another fire-breathing, V8 IS… and then they did it in the form of the 2022 Lexus IS 500 F SPORT Performance. In 2018...

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Jeonsa

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IS500 for me. I definitely see why some would pick the Type S though, especially the diehard Honda/Acura fans.
 

Faisal Sheikh

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TLX Type S is a solid effort and the Honda fans are celebrating returning the Type S brand return. The pricing advantage works for TLX Type S. It would win against KIA Stinger, Infiniti Q400 Red Sport and Genesis G70 because it is a much better all-rounder. Where I live, AWD is very popular so AWD will also make it compelling. Regarding IS500 vs TLX Type S, ignoring the value proposition it will be pretty much one sided in favor of the IS500. It will dominate in comparisons. It really is between IS500 and the m340i as far as I am concerned.
 
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SteVVT-i

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The TLX Type S is 4200 lbs?! I wonder if journalist will plague its reviews with "its too heavy" "the weight..." "its just so heavy"
 

Faisal Sheikh

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The TLX Type S is 4200 lbs?! I wonder if journalist will plague its reviews with "its too heavy" "the weight..." "its just so heavy"

4250 lbs official curb weight. In the reviews, they say the rear torque vectoring helps it mask its weight.
 
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TLX Type S is a solid effort and the Honda fans are celebrating returning the Type S brand return. The pricing advantage works for TLX Type S. It would win against KIA Stinger, Infiniti Q400 Red Sport and Genesis G70 because it is a much better all-rounder. Where I live, AWD is very popular so AWD will also make it compelling. Regarding IS500 vs TLX Type S, ignoring the value proposition it will be pretty much one sided in favor of the IS500. It will dominate in comparisons. It really is between IS500 and the m340i as far as I am concerned.

This is by far the most correct take here. Well written mate.
 

bogglo

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what keeps playing in my head is, what if the Acura number is underrated? We have seen how the accord trashes all its competitors. IMO performance will be close from the 0-60mph. above that HP will favour the IS.
 

Gecko

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what keeps playing in my head is, what if the Acura number is underrated? We have seen how the accord trashes all its competitors.

I think a lot of us, myself included, expected that to be the case but it does not seem so. I find it very odd that Acura didn't release official performance numbers for the car but said, "Around 5 seconds 0-60" or something similar. A lot of the YouTube reviews were people trying to get 0-60 times, and it seems like 4.8 - 5.2 seconds was most common. They're marketing this as a performance car - "Return of the Type S" - but with no performance numbers?

Anyway, we know Honda can build best-in-class engines, just look at that 2.0T for example. I think it was Motor Trend who said with the weight gain on the Type S and the 2.0T being so good, they'd rather have the standard car in A-Spec guise. Single turbo V6 with 355hp just puts the Type S in a weird position... something closer to 400hp would have made more sense just to create a stronger value proposition and more breathing room with the base 272hp car. Plus it would have helped to offset the weight gain.

Think about this: The MDX is 4,271lbs, so it actually weighs a bit less than the TLX Type S. We know that's the next candidate to get this engine and ~350hp in a 4,300lb SUV just seems like table stakes with BMW, Mercedes and Audi all offering something similar, which makes "Type S" seem a bit less special IMO. MDX should have a 350hp V6 and not in a special performance edition (Don't get me wrong - Lexus should too!).
 

Gecko

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I see a few people mentioning that the IS 350 is the better contender for the TLX Type S, compared to the IS 500.

IS 350 F SPORT
Base Price: $42,950
Horsepower: 311
Torque: 280 lb-ft
Weight: 3,748lbs
0-60: 5.6 seconds

TLX Type S
Base price: $52,300
Horsepower: 355
Torque: 354 lb-ft
Weight: 4,221
0-60: 5.0 seconds

The TLX Type S is $10k more than the IS 350 F SPORT, and probably going to be $7k less than the IS 500 FSP, so to me, the 500 seems to be the closer competitor. Regarding IS 350 F Sport vs TLX Type S, is .6 seconds 0-60 worth $10k?

Plus, while the TLX comes in cheap, that's also only for the gray color. If you want anything else, that's another $500. The wheel package is another $800. So, $1,300 is not a lot of money, but it does shave some $ off the margins between the IS and TLX Type S.
 

GoHuskers

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I see a few people mentioning that the IS 350 is the better contender for the TLX Type S, compared to the IS 500.

IS 350 F SPORT
Base Price: $42,950
Horsepower: 311
Torque: 280 lb-ft
Weight: 3,748lbs
0-60: 5.6 seconds

TLX Type S
Base price: $52,300
Horsepower: 355
Torque: 354 lb-ft
Weight: 4,221
0-60: 5.0 seconds

The TLX Type S is $10k more than the IS 350 F SPORT, and probably going to be $7k less than the IS 500 FSP, so to me, the 500 seems to be the closer competitor. Regarding IS 350 F Sport vs TLX Type S, is .6 seconds 0-60 worth $10k?

Plus, while the TLX comes in cheap, that's also only for the gray color. If you want anything else, that's another $500. The wheel package is another $800. So, $1,300 is not a lot of money, but it does shave some $ off the margins between the IS and TLX Type S.
Isn't the Type S comes standard with AWD? Is it True that's $10k for Comparable options between Type S and 350 FSport?
 

Faisal Sheikh

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what keeps playing in my head is, what if the Acura number is underrated? We have seen how the accord trashes all its competitors. IMO performance will be close from the 0-60mph. above that HP will favour the IS.

These are my personal "guesses" in that regard. The Honda Accord 2.0t is actually underrated at 252 HP. It does not have any issues edging out the Camry V6 with 300 HP despite being officially underpowered. However, the Accord is around 3400 lbs and does 14.1 seconds in the 1/4 mile. A Camry V6 does around 14.5 seconds and is around 3600 lbs, but with 300 HP. That makes it quite clear the Honda is underrated.

The Acura TLX Type S compared to the Honda Accord 2.0t has about 100 HP more officially. However, it will weigh about 900 lbs more. Even if it was underrated at 355 HP, it will not be very significantly quicker in a straight line than the Accord 2.0t. AWD will help getting off the line quicker hitting high-4s, but the weight and higher drivetrain loss means it would be around 13.6 - 13.7 seconds and trap speed of around 108 - 109 mph optimistically. Even with underrating, I cannot see it dipping into the low-13s or cracking into the 12s due to the weight issue. I would be very surprised if it does a 13.1 - 13.2 seconds.

So if were to go by straight line performance, I would say the IS500 F-Sport having similar power-to-weight to an RCF. Despite the official 0-60 mph being slower for the IS500 of around 4.5 seconds, it would be in the same ballpark with a best of low-4s and 12.4 - 12.6 seconds and a trap speed of 114 - 115 mph with a good launch. That makes the TLX still close to 1 seconds slower than the IS500 F-Sport in a straight line. Again, this is only within context of straight line. That is very similar to a 382 HP m340i RWD,

Around a turn, the Acura comes with torque vectoring to help rotate and carry more speed through the turn, but it has inherently almost 60% of the weight hanging over/aft of the front axle while IS500 might be in all likelihood around a 54/46 distribution with RWD and Torsen LSD. Also, the 300 lbs lighter weight means managing less inertia through the turn. IS500 will more easily oversteer and hence build speed through the turn so I think handling dynamics also favor the IS500 despite the fancy gizmo electronics favoring the Acura TLX Type S helping it shift the balance rearwards with its heavy front bias distribution.
 
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I see a few people mentioning that the IS 350 is the better contender for the TLX Type S, compared to the IS 500.

IS 350 F SPORT
Base Price: $42,950
Horsepower: 311
Torque: 280 lb-ft
Weight: 3,748lbs
0-60: 5.6 seconds

TLX Type S
Base price: $52,300
Horsepower: 355
Torque: 354 lb-ft
Weight: 4,221
0-60: 5.0 seconds

The TLX Type S is $10k more than the IS 350 F SPORT, and probably going to be $7k less than the IS 500 FSP, so to me, the 500 seems to be the closer competitor. Regarding IS 350 F Sport vs TLX Type S, is .6 seconds 0-60 worth $10k?

Plus, while the TLX comes in cheap, that's also only for the gray color. If you want anything else, that's another $500. The wheel package is another $800. So, $1,300 is not a lot of money, but it does shave some $ off the margins between the IS and TLX Type S.

I just built an IS350 Fsport, AWD, FSport Dynamic handling package, ML & Navigation package (all 3 of which have similarities to what is included in TLX S): $52,525 incl destination.
TLX S build $53,825.
Both using the no charge paint (note - with the IS, silver, black and light blue are no charge, all other colors are $595). And in the TLX, you get Milano leather, rather than the vinyl (nuluxe) you get in the IS. (Am I wrong, or is it not possible to get an IS with leather?).

So that’s why I would be comparing the two.
 

internalaudit

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Can't wait for a track test between the two.


as a vehicle accelerates, the weight travels to the rear of the vehicle, reducing the grip of the wheels in the front. This will reduce the vehicle's ability to steer as it accelerates out of a corner, or completely remove its ability to accelerate (in the case of a front wheel drive vehicle).


I think in twisty tracks with more than half a dozen laps to complete, the Type S will be a winner, especially if Acura does get rid of that pesky upshift in manual mode in the pre-production car that Matt drove. SH-AWD probably provides a lot more traction than a LSD will every provide but I'm just guessing LOL.

 

Jeonsa

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Can't wait for a track test between the two.


as a vehicle accelerates, the weight travels to the rear of the vehicle, reducing the grip of the wheels in the front. This will reduce the vehicle's ability to steer as it accelerates out of a corner, or completely remove its ability to accelerate (in the case of a front wheel drive vehicle).


I think in twisty tracks with more than half a dozen laps to complete, the Type S will be a winner, especially if Acura does get rid of that pesky upshift in manual mode in the pre-production car that Matt drove. SH-AWD probably provides a lot more traction than a LSD will every provide but I'm just guessing LOL.

It is annoying when a car auto up shifts. I wonder what Acura told Matt about the auto upshifts
 

Jeonsa

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Everyone commenting on that YT clip says to fix it LOL.
It’s crazy to me. I can imagine them saying “Well we want to maintain the reliability, and keep people from possibly damaging the transmission/engine.” But even then it’s strange. As far as Lexus goes It’s the only reason why I didn’t buy a IS350 F Sport.
 

internalaudit

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It’s crazy to me. I can imagine them saying “Well we want to maintain the reliability, and keep people from possibly damaging the transmission/engine.” But even then it’s strange. As far as Lexus goes It’s the only reason why I didn’t buy a IS350 F Sport.
Can't they put in a RPM limiter instead? The TLX has a turbo charged engine and it probably doesn't need to get to the redline anyway to get the maximum HP haha.