7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

spwolf

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What saddens me is that Lexus is perceived to be depressing the pricepoints on its models. Or so is it?

Most of the luxury brand sales here in Europe are in up to €40k sector... Lexus simply did not have much to offer there while Germans offer wide range of their vehicles in that price range.

All the recent products such as LC, LS, F models and even RX-L have moved up the price points compared to their previous versions.
 

Madi

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Look at 1:48 in the following video, is that a rear seat back adjuster?

 
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spwolf

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Look at 1:48 in the following video, is that a rear seat back adjuster?


Amazing video, thank you... Quality of the interior is pretty nice in good quality videos, looks great. They even matched the plastics colors in different interior models.

As to the rear recliner, yes, it seems to have electric rear recliner. and white F-Sport looks amazing.
 

ThePenguin

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Now may some folks will stop the GS discontinuation non-sense after realizing that - as I said before -
- No AWD ES
- New GS is on development
:):)

Yup. People are quick to forget that the GS took a model-year off (2012) between the 3rd and 4th Generation :p I have a strong feeling that the 5th Generation will be a A7/Gran Coupe/CLS competitor.

Look at 1:48 in the following video, is that a rear seat back adjuster?

FINALLY! Great eye you have. I've been waiting for them to at least offer heated rear seats in the sedan lineup. I really hope that those rear controls make it to the US-spec vehicles.
 

spwolf

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Yup. People are quick to forget that the GS took a model-year off (2012) between the 3rd and 4th Generation :p I have a strong feeling that the 5th Generation will be a A7/Gran Coupe/CLS competitor.



FINALLY! Great eye you have. I've been waiting for them to at least offer heated rear seats in the sedan lineup. I really hope that those rear controls make it to the US-spec vehicles.

Rear heating is given for sure, even in US spec vehicles.
 

Carmaker1

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Very nice design. I just find it so ironic, how both this and the Avalon are both on new platforms, yet they are so evolutionary in design. Yet, the predecessors looked so revolutionary! Seems deliberate. Very amusing how this happens with certain brands over the years, where a new top hat on old platform changes things up aesthetically, then subsequent new platform version can look like a refresh.

I definitely liked the 6ES improvements over the 5ES, so this does a great job in evolving the ES model line and at least making it more of a global offering. On its own, this is a good offering and can only do better by mid-cycle (as Gecko once said). They should make the ES be to the LS 500 that the 1987-2002 Lincoln Continental was once to the 1989-2002 Town Car.

Ultra luxury rear seat amenities, but while withholding certain features like massage, extra adjustments (6 way vs 12 way), and media/entertainment offerings for LS only (smaller rear screens). See how BMW manages rear seat packs for 5-Series against the flagship 7-Series since 2010. Considering that 240B final designs were set 2 years ago, I can imagine it wasn't timely enough to pack in more content against the GS being in limbo.

Even if the GS became/becomes 4-door coupe, the ES really needs to cover the luxury side of things on the lower end like all other midsizers. Things the A7, CLS, and 6-Series were a bit lacking at the rear, that the A6, E, and 5er had to offer something comfort oriented, especially in Asian markets.

An ES priced from $39k USD to $65k would've been ideal, where a fully loaded ES 450 above ES 350 had a Dynamic Force 3.0L TTV6 AWD putting out 370 HP and a UL package with every option ticked (RES dual screens w/limited functions against LS, cooled/heated power rear seats, front massage only, etc).

While the LS offers extras you cannot get in an ES, such as rear massage, touch screen center console in rear. They seem to be there almost, judging by some recent videos, that have rear seat controls.
 
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spwolf

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Very nice design. I just find it so ironic, how both this and the Avalon are both on new platforms, yet they are so evolutionary in design. Yet, the predecessors looked so revolutionary! Seems deliberate. Very amusing how this happens with certain brands over the years, where a new top hat on old platform changes things up aesthetically, then subsequent new platform version can look like a refresh.

I definitely liked the 6ES improvements over the 5ES, so this does a great job in evolving the ES model line and at least making it more of a global offering. On its own, this is a good offering and can only do better by mid-cycle (as Gecko once said). They should make the ES be what the 1987-2002 Lincoln Continental was once to the 1989-2002 Town Car.

Ultra luxury rear seat amenities, but while withholding certain features like massage, extra adjustments (6 way vs 12 way), and media/entertainment offerings for LS only. See how BMW manages rear seat packs for 5-Series against the flagship 7-Series since 2010. Considering that 240B final designs were set 2 years ago, I can imagine it wasn't timely enough to pack in more content against the GS.

Even if the GS became/becomes 4-door coupe, the ES really needs to cover the luxury side of things on the lower end like all other midsizers. Things the A7, CLS, and 6-Series were a bit lacking at the rear, that the A6, E, and 5er had to offer something comfort oriented, especially in Asian markets.

An ES priced from $39k USD to $65k would've been ideal, where a fully loaded ES 400 had a Dynamic Force 3.0L TTV6 AWD putting out 370 HP and a UL package with every option ticked (RES dual screens w/limited functions, cooled/heated rear seats, front massage, etc).

Indeed, I think when it comes to the design, since ES is so established and sells well for them, they are less willing to experiment in design compared to other new models or models that are not leaders in sale. Case in point new UX for instance, which is really out there, more so than any other Lexus model I remember.

When it comes to the engines, there are many rumors from Asia about 2.5t, did you hear anything about it? or AWD?
 

CrisB

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I wonder if there will be the head up display option.

I can’t imagine an ES without it.

Especially if they wanted to cancel the GS.
 

Levi

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Very nice design. I just find it so ironic, how both this and the Avalon are both on new platforms, yet they are so evolutionary in design. Yet, the predecessors looked so revolutionary! Seems deliberate. Very amusing how this happens with certain brands over the years, where a new top hat on old platform changes things up aesthetically, then subsequent new platform version can look like a refresh.

Same thing happening at Subaru.
 

Carmaker1

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What saddens me is that Lexus is perceived to be depressing the pricepoints on its models. Or so is it?

Interesting point. Something went wrong along the way, in trying to compete at the same price with more for your money. BMW has that issue with the 750i/Li against the S550 (now S560).
 

Carmaker1

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Same thing happening at Subaru.

Well my friend, Subaru isn't really up there and nothing they do surprises me. It wasn't really a criticism by me, just an interesting observation I have noticed recently. As a past Jaguar engineer, I found it interesting how the 2003 X350 XJ was all-new, yet deemed evolutionary based on styling. New platform and everything, yet the so-called revolutionary XJ was the 2010 X351, which uses the same aluminium chassis with improvements.

I am just comparing the night and day differences between the 2006-2012 K Platform ES XV40 and 2012-2018 XV60, against new 2019 model. Ditto for Avalon, more than anything. The 2012 Avalon looks ancient compared to the 2013, despite being mechanically identical in ways. The 2019 Avalon looks similar, yet is essentially 99.9% new.

Indeed, I think when it comes to the design, since ES is so established and sells well for them, they are less willing to experiment in design compared to other new models or models that are not leaders in sale. Case in point new UX for instance, which is really out there, more so than any other Lexus model I remember.

When it comes to the engines, there are many rumors from Asia about 2.5t, did you hear anything about it? or AWD?

It's not really what I meant, but a good point nonetheless. Similarly based on sales success, BMW refused to make that mistake with the 2005 E90 3-Series and facelift Gen 1 E53 X5 (planned for late 2003 / MY2004) very last minute.

They stopped ﹰChris Bangle in his tracks in early 2002, just months after the 2002 7-Series was revealed during summer of 2001 to exreme derision, before signing off on the final E90 exterior by designer Joji Nagashima (of 90s BMW fame) in March 2002. As late as early 2003, even more changes were ordered to the E90 taillights to simplify them ahead of December 2004 Job 1. Result wasn't as extreme as the 7-Series and 5-Series of that era.

Other than the ES, what Lexus model needs a conservative/evolutionary approach, to protect sales? I can only say, the RX. Ironically, the extreme AL20 RX jumped in sales to extreme heights for 2016 (best ever?):eek:, despite vocal hatred of the avant-garde design. I am thinking the IS will be the styling revolution, since the GS won't be debuting the new design language after being put on ice. Think LS+ in design, 5GS-F rendering. LS+ Concept was a look at the new IS, using LS body and also future LS changes.

Naturally the new ES was supposed to take after the 5LS design, but because the XF50 LS was designed so long ago (early 2010s), a new design language was already brewing, expected to be seen on 5GS next year.

Problem was, UX at the entry end couldn't debut it entirely and anything else isn't really a redesign (GX facelift) over the next year. Meaning, 2021 model year will introduce the new design language. Either with 600X code NX, 4??? code IS, or 650B code L? flagship CUV. The next LX is reportedly Job 1 of January 2020.
 
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mediumhot

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I think strategy is pretty obvious here. They are banking on Toyota reskins up to $60,000 price range, everything above it would be RWD pure Lexus. Let's wait and see what will happen with IS and RC two generations down the road.
 

mikeavelli

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I'll say it again, they are going to sell every last one. The Avalon has gotten very solid reviews so I'm sure Lexus won't miss the boat.

I foresee reviewers trying to figure out if this replaces the GS and how it being FWD with no AWD option keeps the door open for another GS.
 

CrisB

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In the press release, if I’m not wrong, they did not mentioning VDIM, do you think they use the same technology as we have, just for example, in the IS300H?
 

Levi

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Interesting point. Something went wrong along the way, in trying to compete at the same price with more for your money. BMW has that issue with the 750i/Li against the S550 (now S560).


Genesis and some Kia models also look like trying to give more for same price, and doesn't seem doing that well. When competing on price in this industry, it might be better to find ways to give the same (if not more) for lower price. That is what the first gen LS did, no?
 

Ian Schmidt

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The engine bay? Looks messy and unlike normal Lexus sealing off?

Assuming that's not just prototype-itis, I actually prefer that. I like seeing the actual engine when I open the hood and not some dumb plastic cover. (Yes, I know that ship sailed long ago even at the low end of the market).