7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

[Madi]

So you're suggesting, that the new GS won't make it to Europe? They might as well abandon the entire segment in Europe alltogether.

Yes, unfortunately, in terms of European market, the GS will be replaced by the ES

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Is this the Sunlight Green grandiosely described as "replicating the color of ocean water brightened by the sun"? Looks more like the Ginger Ale Metallic recently offered on a number of Fords in North America or, worse, the widely derided Desert Sage (6U3) hue offered on the Lexus IS for the 2006-08 model years.

As always with Lexus press photos, wait to see the thing in person. From this photo it might be really cool in full sunlight and it might be really dumb. It's hard to tell.

The interior is a big disappointment. To me it looks like a cross with the last generation RX and the current generation RX. It doesn't scream luxury with all the "white space" in certain area. The GS has a amazing interior.

The GS also starts at $10,000 more. That buys a lot of nicer interior parts.

 

[Enthusiast88]

Is this the Sunlight Green grandiosely described as "replicating the color of ocean water brightened by the sun"? Looks more like the Ginger Ale Metallic recently offered on a number of Fords in North America or, worse, the widely derided Desert Sage (6U3) hue offered on the Lexus IS for the 2006-08 model years.

My favorite part of the 2019 ES release is this awesome color! I hope the RC get's this option.
Desert Sage is personally one of my all time favorites. (not my car below)

 

[Lasse J. Nordvik]

That green exterior colour with the brown and tan interior dripping with (I assume) bamboo! Me likey!

 

[zeusus]

ES looks great, dashboard leaves room for the imagination to desire but the exterior really leads me on to believe it should be more than it is, which is an ES. If pricing doesn't really change, this car would be a great deal and sell really well.

 

[spwolf]

^Is that brown plastic on the center console?

I think it matches the wood color or something... or at least with that wood it was brownish and with F-Sport it was silverish.

 

[spwolf]

We can agree to disagree about torque steer being a problem. US media hates it and so do many consumers, so the car will most likely be reviewed as dynamically inferior to competitors and even GS. It is what it is.

I have no problem with Lexus using Toyota engines and of course I understand the business case for shared engines across a wide array of vehicles. However,
Camry debuted TNGA-K
Camry debuted A25A-FKS
Camry debuted 2GR-FKS in a sedan
Camry debuted 2.5L THS II
Avalon debuted CarPlay
Avalon debuted minor revision of THS II with 7 more horsepower
...ES just showed up using all the Toyota hardware we've already seen

It would have looked better if they had at least staged the ES reveal before the Avalon to make it seem like something was sacred for Lexus. Considering the situation with GS, the optics of this are just bad for a "premium" brand. Adding insult to injury was the continued use of "new" in their press release and teaser materials setting expectations that the product didn't deliver on for the reasons I noted above.

As to the torque steer, of course it will be inferior to "even GS". GS is great handling car, of course ES will be inferior. I am saying it means little to customers, just like GS handling better than 5 series meant very little to GS.

Why would it look better or worse? Camry was introduced first, and as such it got those engines first. Avalon got introduced 2 months before ES, so it "got" those few things 2 months earlier than ES.

Just like LS being introduced earlier means ES "gets" CarPlay sooner than it. Idea that Toyota should have delayed CarPlay and Camry and Avalon so LS and ES get it first is silly.

 

[mediumhot]

So you're suggesting, that the new GS won't make it to Europe? They might as well abandon the entire segment in Europe alltogether.

By now it's pretty much clear that the sole reason why current GS got canceled in Europe is poor sales on a global scale. Europe just happened to have the tiniest sales numbers. New ES will get to keep the same spot in the lineup as it has now which is discount premium midsize car so it's true competition in Europe will be IS300h. That is unless they do something weird with the packaging to keep the price difference at bigger spread. But I do expect to see ES300h and IS300h at the same price level in EU.

I also have a question: Why they didn't include the touchpad from UX? It had clever scrollers on the side for volume and tracking, it was a step in right direction.

 

[Airplane]

By now it's pretty much clear that the sole reason why current GS got canceled in Europe is poor sales on a global scale. Europe just happened to have the tiniest sales numbers. New ES will get to keep the same spot in the lineup as it has now which is discount premium midsize car so it's true competition in Europe will be IS300h. That is unless they do something weird with the packaging to keep the price difference at bigger spread. But I do expect to see ES300h and IS300h at the same price level in EU.

I also have a question: Why they didn't include the touchpad from UX? It had clever scrollers on the side for volume and tracking, it was a step in right direction.

Probably the same reason as the LS500 and the LF-FC concept. The UX is most likely finalized after the ES which make some of the features and techs more advanced than the ES.

 

[GTG]

The green looks nice , but the red is flawless Did anyone see or know if the car comes with a red leather option ?

 

[spwolf]

The green looks nice , but the red is flawless Did anyone see or know if the car comes with a red leather option ?

there is red leather in Chinese press vehicle but I am not sure if it will be in all markets.

 

[mediumhot]

Probably the same reason as the LS500 and the LF-FC concept. The UX is most likely finalized after the ES which make some of the features and techs more advanced than the ES.

That is the only conclusion that's reasonable.

 

[GTG]

there is red leather in Chinese press vehicle but I am not sure if it will be in all markets.

Thanks man , it’s coming to The US one day , let’s hope .

 

[Twiz]

The new ES is almost spot on the rendering photo that went around awhile ago. The rendering looked like the last gen Camry I wasn't feeling it as much but the final product ES looks good and will sell well. I'm just waiting on the new GS

 

[Twiz]

My first Lexus was a brand new 07 Es350 even thou I have graduated to the GS its nice to see the new ES. I love the ques taken from the new LS and put in the ES with the ML speaker on the door looks just like that glass cut out on the LS interior door. But I did notice something I seen ES250 on the back, I wonder what the engine options are for the new ES....

 

[Twiz]

Ok I just read the press release I see the new 4 cylinder engine I'm surprised its not turbo. Also that's a big increase in power for the v6 engine just like the Camry over 300hp

 

[Carmaker1]

Well, it has been quite an 18-month wait since admin Mike was told about this car in 2016 and gushed about it. It is a good improvement over the XV60, but not a fitting E-class or 5-Series competitor at the top end.

I look forward to watching how the European market place responds to it and if it justifies the dumping of a 25-year old nameplate, instead of implementing kaizen ACROSS the model range. Kaizen is CONTINUOUS improvement, not dump and run with spreading your bread and butter all around, for those who haven't really asked you for it in Europe and would mostly prefer an A6.

Excuse my negativity, but this does NOT bridge the GAP between the IS and LS as needed. Why couldn't this target the Volvo S90, to justify the death of GS? A cynical marketing exercise nonetheless and barely works as a tempoary placeholder.

Not everyone is a car enthusiast, but plenty of those non car enthusiasts can tell the difference in some cases and will move to the next brand that offers a product that is a direct alternative to the midsizers XF/A6/5er/E from Jaguar, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz.

My "auntie", a successful medical supply business owner (multi-millions) "leased" an ES 350 in February 2013 and quickly replaced it with a 2014 GS450h within 1 year for some rather interesting reasons. She had previously driven a W211 E350 and didn't want anything too big like an S-Class or LS. The reasons she gave in choosing a GS then, was her husband (pediatric specialist) had surprised her with the wrong Lexus for her birthday and the GS fit what she wanted more.

This is someone who I met in February 2006 (as a grown person; met earlier as an infant), that day being driven up to my family house in her realtor's 2005/06 beige ES 330 to spend the night (thousands of miles from Morristown, NJ home). Her first day in her current city of residence the past 12 years, was spent being driven around in a Lexus ES and her first Lexus locally was an 2013 ES 350. It was quickly replaced by the GS, thus breaking her lease over some disenchantment.

I wouldn't call her a car person, especially compared to my own mother who is a BMW fanatic by blood and co-raised me. This "auntie" recently went with a 2016 Porsche Cayenne, as Lexus did not (still does not) make a true Cayenne competitor and she did not like the 2016 GS facelift. Are Lexus willing to lose people like that, over and over? Like the many impatient LS 460 owners?

Anyway, I do look forward to at least writing about the new ES in August or September at earliest. Expect what happened to the SC to happen with GS. "GA-L II" might be the basis of that possibly. On its own, the new ES is a fair offering and damn well better than a Buick (competitively). Still, it isn't good when an XSE/Sportivo Camry looks sportier than a larger luxury F-Sport model.

 

[asoksevil]

So you're suggesting, that the new GS won't make it to Europe? They might as well abandon the entire segment in Europe alltogether.

You see, I doubt that. If a new GS is in development, then why release the ES in Europe? Only to have the IS, the ES and the new GS in a few years time, on a shrinking, extremely competitive market.

Unless Lexus wants to establish a brand new segment between the GS and the IS but this, I think is even less likely. (perhaps they'll price it just slightly above the IS but that would cannibalize IS' sales)

If they want to succeed in this segment (success meaning sales at least in ballpark with the other manufacturer's) they need to have another, more powerfull híbrid.

From a car enthusiast point of view, we all get why the ES cannot be a true replacement for the GS (handling, driving dynamics, RWD vs FWD) but in layman terms, there's no denying in the increased price point. You could argue that "mainstream" customers will not care about it being FWD, but what about the quality of the materials? The comfort of the GS should definitely trump the ES. The GS ($46k) in the U.S is 8k more expensive than the ES ($39k) and in Europe, the difference is even wider, the IS starts at €36k and the GS at €53k (Spanish prices). The LS in Spain is €112k and $75k in the US, there needs to be a model in between to capture that spectrum of willingness to pay.

I still think that the ES cannot compete in the same E class and 5 Series segment in equal terms. Sure, the ES has certainly being upgraded but it still has the "Camry" or Toyota stigma, a very powerful and established name while the GS has its own brand equity. I see Lexus repositioning the GS as a for door coupe a la CLS Class or A7. Make no mistake, the GS is no SC, the GS has years of experience and it is a well developed brand in the world, it's harder to elevate the ES brand vis a vis GS when you can still leverage the GS.

 

[Levi]

It looks so much better without spoiler.

 

[renyeo]

What saddens me is that Lexus is perceived to be depressing the pricepoints on its models. Or so is it?