7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

[Gecko]

I feel like there haven't been enough good photos released of the non F-Sport car to gauge what the interior really looks like. I saw a few of the tan/brown, but what about gray, or Noble Brown? More angles, more colors and more details, please.

I do not care for the swoosh that runs across the center stack and don't quite understand why it's there. Also, the door panels seem really flat and rather shapeless.

 

[emptystreets130]

Well it kinda, sorta, is an entry level Luxury Car (if you will). They have to keep the cost down also, It should start at around $39,000.

That's where the IS comes in. The IS is an entry level luxury car. If the ES is supposed to now compete with the E class, 5 series, etc, the interior needs a major overhaul. It's just cheap looking.

 

[KOHIPEET]

Did you really think they will make a wagon ES? To sell like 500 of them?

Lexus EU sells only hybrids, it is 98% of their sales... thats how good IS 2.0t and NX 2.0t are selling, they are in 2%.

Well, to be honest, I'll give you that. I truly wasn't expecting a wagon, but I was expecting two hybrid powertrains, one around 210 HP and another around 310 HP and also two petrol engines. The 2.0 litre turbo with around 230 HP and a turbocharged engine developing around 330 HP and AWD offering, but no.

I wouldn't necessarily compare the NX to a large business sedan, but from what I see on the roads here, the NX200t is quite popular.

With the engine options I've mentioned above the ES would at LEAST be somewhat competitive against the germans, as from what I see, in Europe, people who buy premium cars, also expect premium performance and yes I know the bulk of the cars sold in this segment are indeed 2.0 turbocharged diesels, but even those are handily outclass -in acceleration- this 300h hybrid, especially on highway, where large business sedans are used the most.
(I mean have you seen the new A6? I practically hate every Audi, but even I wouldn't consider this ES over an A6 with, say a 2.0 tfsi)

All in all, I like the exterior, they've nailed it, but aside from aggressive pricing, I can't see how Lexus can make this model successful in Europe.

 

[Madi]

Now may some folks will stop the GS discontinuation non-sense after realizing that - as I said before -
- No AWD ES
- New GS is on development

 

[spwolf]

I am well aware of the business case for replacing the GS with the ES - we have beaten that horse to death.

Watch/read reviews of Camry V6 or Avalon. Lots of complaints of torque steer and sensitive throttle that sends the front wheels spinning. American media will jump on this fact and complain that it is FWD.

Regardless of age, every engine in this ES comes from Toyota's mainstream products. It seems odd that they bothered to make a point in the teasers about next gen hybrid powertrains when we already had all the details and info from the Camry and Avalon. Toyota leading here, and Lexus following. 2.0T would have been a great engine for Europe but it is nowhere to be seen. So, Lexus is just going to offer 215hp hybrid in Europe? Aren't most of the other german hybrids based on 2.0L I4s for tax reasons? Seems like Lexus is straddling a weird line here.

"Good base version with good base engines and good interior/exterior." Are we talking about Toyota or Lexus here...?

- I have seen every Avalon review there is, almost every single one says it is class leading vehicle. So it has some torque steer with 300hp engine, so what? So do NX and RX and rest of the best selling Toyota/Lexus lineup - obviously customers dont think it is a big deal, and Avalon/ES are supposedly much better than those vehicles dynamically.

- 2.0t does not sell in Europe at all. 98% of Lexus EU sales is hybrid. 2% is all these 2.0t and V8, F engines together in IS, GS, RC, RX, NX, LC, LS. There is no displacement tax, just fuel consumption tax. Obviously for us the customers it is much better for Lexus using 300h and not 250h, that would be a downer.

So engine introduced few days earlier in Avalon than in ES means that Toyota is leading and Lexus is following? Cmn, be realistic. Porsche uses VW engines. Audi uses VW engines that cheap Skoda uses. 3 and 5 and 7 series share engines. Mercedes uses Renault engines that Renault puts in $10k Clio.

That 2.5l is state of the art engine, it does not matter if it got shown 2 days before in Avalon. Heck I am surprised that they made it different from engine in Camry but I guess that does not matter anymore? It has to be all new engine? I mean thats funny.

 

[spwolf]

I feel like there haven't been enough good photos released of the non F-Sport car to gauge what the interior really looks like. I saw a few of the tan/brown, but what about gray, or Noble Brown? More angles, more colors and more details, please.

I do not care for the swoosh that runs across the center stack and don't quite understand why it's there. Also, the door panels seem really flat and rather shapeless.

Indeed... I dont like that swoosh either. I think they wanted to make it different from usual center stack for HVAC. It might actually look good in real life if quality of plastic is good, but I wish they stiched it with leather there .

Something that I noticed in great video that krew has added from lexus... it seems they use different panels for seat heater controls, so if you have a model that does not have steering heater or rear shades or whatnot, you wont get blank buttons there... also that video shows seats, steering and rest of the interior as high quality really:

 

[mediumhot]

C-pillar is very RC like, I will give 'em that.

 

[KOHIPEET]

Now may some folks will stop the GS discontinuation non-sense after realizing that - as I said before -
- No AWD ES
- New GS is on development

You see, I doubt that. If a new GS is in development, then why release the ES in Europe? Only to have the IS, the ES and the new GS in a few years time, on a shrinking, extremely competitive market.

Unless Lexus wants to establish a brand new segment between the GS and the IS but this, I think is even less likely. (perhaps they'll price it just slightly above the IS but that would cannibalize IS' sales)

If they want to succeed in this segment (success meaning sales at least in ballpark with the other manufacturer's) they need to have another, more powerfull híbrid.

 

[spwolf]

MT has by far the best pics, but keep in mind that colors seem to be off in many of them. Still very high res and show a lot of detail.
Doors look a bit plain from afar but they are also 80% leather and have handles from LC. I like it... also in close up shot, HVAC looks fine that swoosh seems like very nice plastic.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexu...k-review/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

 

[ssun30]

That 2.5l is state of the art engine, it does not matter if it got shown 2 days before in Avalon. Heck I am surprised that they made it different from engine in Camry but I guess that does not matter anymore? It has to be all new engine? I mean thats funny.

The thing is the word "brand new" kept popping out in the press release. Brand new with respect to what? With respect to the outgoing ES, sure, but that can't be more obvious. When using the Camry as a reference, that A25A is a year old. For a brief moment I did think there is something new given the "ES260" name. But then I read on and it says the engine has 38% thermal efficiency (down from 40%) and got even more confused. Did they somehow downgrade the engine? Or is it a typo? They did nothing to clarify that the ES260 is for Chinese domestic market only and that it is identical to the ES250. Then we had a bad selection of pictures like a generic brake disk and they spent no effort even adding brief descriptions of each picture in the official photo gallery.

Seriously, their press release looks like a last-minute effort. The PR people certainly weren't doing their homework. It is a very poor job.

 

[Gecko]

^Is that brown plastic on the center console?

 

[RAL]

 

[spwolf]

The thing is the word "brand new" kept popping out in the press release. Brand new with respect to what? With respect to the outgoing ES, sure, but that can't be more obvious.

Of course it is brand new with respect to Lexus and ES... and also, it is not the same as in Camry, where it is available for 6 months or so ... it is actually 7hp stronger, it uses more battery power, not sure if battery is also larger... same as with Avalon.

 

[RAL]

^Is that brown plastic on the center console?

I noticed that too ... I think you are right. Maybe it will look good with Noble Brown ...

 

[ssun30]

I noticed that too ... I think you are right.

Is it a base-trim car? Even fake wood could look better...

 

[KOHIPEET]

I noticed that too ... I think you are right.

As much as I like the design and the overall car in isolation, no way Lexus thinks this can stand a chance against the big players of the segment. I expect very aggressive pricing.

 

[Gecko]

- I have seen every Avalon review there is, almost every single one says it is class leading vehicle. So it has some torque steer with 300hp engine, so what? So do NX and RX and rest of the best selling Toyota/Lexus lineup - obviously customers dont think it is a big deal, and Avalon/ES are supposedly much better than those vehicles dynamically.

So engine introduced few days earlier in Avalon than in ES means that Toyota is leading and Lexus is following? Cmn, be realistic. Porsche uses VW engines. Audi uses VW engines that cheap Skoda uses. 3 and 5 and 7 series share engines. Mercedes uses Renault engines that Renault puts in $10k Clio.

That 2.5l is state of the art engine, it does not matter if it got shown 2 days before in Avalon. Heck I am surprised that they made it different from engine in Camry but I guess that does not matter anymore? It has to be all new engine? I mean thats funny.

We can agree to disagree about torque steer being a problem. US media hates it and so do many consumers, so the car will most likely be reviewed as dynamically inferior to competitors and even GS. It is what it is.

I have no problem with Lexus using Toyota engines and of course I understand the business case for shared engines across a wide array of vehicles. However,
Camry debuted TNGA-K
Camry debuted A25A-FKS
Camry debuted 2GR-FKS in a sedan
Camry debuted 2.5L THS II
Avalon debuted CarPlay
Avalon debuted minor revision of THS II with 7 more horsepower
...ES just showed up using all the Toyota hardware we've already seen

It would have looked better if they had at least staged the ES reveal before the Avalon to make it seem like something was sacred for Lexus. Considering the situation with GS, the optics of this are just bad for a "premium" brand. Adding insult to injury was the continued use of "new" in their press release and teaser materials setting expectations that the product didn't deliver on for the reasons I noted above.

 

[Madi]

You see, I doubt that. If a new GS is in development, then why release the ES in Europe? Only to have the IS, the ES and the new GS in a few years time, on a shrinking, extremely competitive market.

Unless Lexus wants to establish a brand new segment between the GS and the IS but this, I think is even less likely. (perhaps they'll price it just slightly above the IS but that would cannibalize IS' sales)

If they want to succeed in this segment (success meaning sales at least in ballpark with the other manufacturer's) they need to have another, more powerfull híbrid.

It's pretty obvious what they are doing, it's that simple :
- The ES is a replacement for the GS only in the markets that were get GS only - like Europe, Japan .. etc -
- The new generation GS is under development - by the way Toyota already developed a mid-size GA-L luxury sedan, which is the ALL-NEW Crown - the new GS testing is already done since it will be basically a re-skinned Crown.
- The countries that will get the new GS are only the countries that receive ES & GS together, like US.

 

[Enthusiast88]

Outside is OK, inside is a disappointment to me. Why make the dash look like the old RX?? And cheap looking door panels. Where the interior door releases looked fresh and artistic on the LC, these just look, well, cheap. Also, my most hated "feature" on my RC is the touchpad, and they put it in the ES. Sad face. My opinion of course.
I would rather have the Avalon with the cognac interior.

 

[KOHIPEET]

It's pretty obvious what they are doing, it's that simple :
- The ES is a replacement for the GS only in the markets that were get GS only - like Europe, Japan .. etc -
- The new generation GS is under development - by the way Toyota already developed a mid-size GA-L luxury sedan, which is the ALL-NEW Crown - the new GS testing is already done since it will be basically a re-skinned Crown.
- The countries that will get the new GS are only the countries that receive ES & GS together, like US.

So you're suggesting, that the new GS won't make it to Europe? They might as well abandon the entire segment in Europe alltogether.