5th Generation Toyota RAV4 Master Thread

Joaquin Ruhi

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If someone in Europe wants a locally built RAV4 Prime, a solution is coming! Suzuki Across is here!
Source: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki/352652/new-2020-suzuki-across-suv-revealed-plug-hybrid-power
Auto Express got the "built in the UK" part wrong. See below.

I was surprised to see Toyota sharing the RAV4 Prime with Suzuki this soon.
An Automotive News Europe article explains why. Here are the key excerpts:

Suzuki will begin European sales of its Across plug-in hybrid in the third quarter as the automaker seeks to reduce its average CO2 levels to comply with European Union legislation.

The compact SUV is based on the Toyota RAV4. It is one of two Toyota vehicles Suzuki will badge for the region as part of a wider agreement between the two Japanese automakers. A compact station wagon based on the Corolla and built in Toyota's plant in Burnaston, England, will go on sale at the end of the year.

The Across, which is built in Japan, has CO2 emissions as low as 22 grams per km as measured on the WLTP cycle, Suzuki said...

Suzuki has struggled to lower the CO2 emissions average of its smaller, mainly gasoline range of cars. Last year its average as measured on the outgoing NEDC cycle rose 6.3g/km to 120.6g/km according to data from market analysts JATO Dynamics.

The low average weight of its cars means the automaker has tougher targets than those brands selling heavier vehicles under the EU system. Suzuki has not disclosed its EU-mandated CO2 reduction target, but it is likely to be close to the 95g/km average that began this year.

The company has restricted sales of its popular Jimny small SUV model in the EU this year because the gasoline-only model was driving up its emissions.

Suzuki was one of the first automakers to introduce mild-hybrid technology to its cars in Europe and now Suzuki's whole lineup, except for the Jimny, is offered with the technology.
 

spwolf

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The way I understand it is that Toyota does not want to outright own Suzuki nor Mazda; Toyota merely wants to ensure that Suzuki and Mazda (and other small Japanese automakers) remain viable, so as to prevent them from falling into foreign hands (Mazda's troubles with Ford come to mind, as does Suzuki's troubles with VW).

And it was not a straight purchase of shares by Toyota in the smaller automaker but a share-swap: Toyota bought 5% of Mazda and Mazda spent an equal amount of money to buy (a tiny number of) shares of Toyota, and similarly, Toyota bought 5% of Suzuki and Suzuki spent an equal amount of money to buy (a tiny number of) shares of Toyota. It is a partnership rather than an outright purchase.
it is a partnership for sure, but a very close one.
5% is actually not a small number.

In general, in Toyota Group, all of the companies are independently managed - so Subaru will be independently managed as well, however the goal is to have much bigger cooperation than before.

So them giving Suzuki Rav4 PHEV for Europe is quite huge, it is show of partnership that is moving in Subaru direction. Same goes with Mazda, and possible platform sharing in the future as well as building of vehicles for Toyota in NA.

I hope Mazda will integrate HSD into their hybrid powertrains, what they currently have is disappointing.
 

spwolf

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Correct; but Mazda seems stubbornly against using it.
yes, they just announced 24v mild hybrid. To be fair, in 2014 they probably had to pay a lot for it, but doing 24v hybrid in 2021 will cost them a lot of money in europe, and their crazy MX-30 EV which has 120m of range (but cheaper price) wont help their CO2 that much.
 

ssun30

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I strongly suggest forum members to give this thing a try. The way PHVs and EVs accelerate is quite addicting and some of you will be convinced to not go back to a pure ICEV, especially a turbocharged one.

With the RAV4 Prime Americans just got their first taste of the vast variety of cheap performance PHVs we have had for three years. It really transforms the market and will democratize performance very quickly. By 2023 500hp should be commonplace for affordable family SUVs (less than $50k) in USA.
 
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Will1991

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It's now official, RAV4 PHEV is the most fuel efficient Toyota according to WLTP measurements:

WLTP cycle
WLTP CO2 emissions combined22 g/km
WLTP Fuel consumption combined0.98 rounded to 1 l/100 km
EV range WLTP combined74.8 rounded to 75 km

This thing is EPIC!

I know, there are some limitations on WLTP (specially for PHEV's as they don't perform a separate test for EV/HEV modes as NA does), and EPA numbers are far better to get a more realistic measurement but still. When can we get this into the Camry and the ES?
 

Gecko

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So... we have unfortunately become aware that 2020 RAV4 hybrids have a pretty significant issue with the car completely dying if left undriven for 2-3 days. Some have the issue, some don't, but Toyota doesn't have a fix for it yet.

The lovely new 2020 Limited Hybrid my parents bought sat in the driveway from Friday evening to Sunday morning and wouldn't start with a "Smart Key malfunction" error -- then the car totally died after 3-4 attempts to relock, unlock, press the brake and power button. It's been driven every day since purchase, and Saturday was the first day it was not used... then dead on Sunday.

The car was so dead it would not even respond to a jump, and it ended up having to be towed to the dealer. An internet search shows that possible culprits are Toyota's electronic parking brake being stuck in an "on" loop, or constant pinging of the Remote Connect system trying to connect with a phone (there is a TSB for this). Both/either seem to drain the 12V battery used for the starter.

Parents are not very happy right now 😯

 

Motor

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So... we have unfortunately become aware that 2020 RAV4 hybrids have a pretty significant issue with the car completely dying if left undriven for 2-3 days. Some have the issue, some don't, but Toyota doesn't have a fix for it yet.
Wow, sorry to hear that about your Parents new purchase. I had no idea that this was a thing. Last weekend when I took my 17 RAV4 Limited in for a routine service I came very close to trading up to a new 20 RAV4 XSE. I’m glad that I didn’t pull the trigger. Hopefully, Toyota resolves this and the fuel tank issue ASAP.
 

Gecko

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Wow, sorry to hear that about your Parents new purchase. I had no idea that this was a thing. Last weekend when I took my 17 RAV4 Limited in for a routine service I came very close to trading up to a new 20 RAV4 XSE. I’m glad that I didn’t pull the trigger. Hopefully, Toyota resolves this and the fuel tank issue ASAP.
Agreed - if we had known about this, I don’t think we would have bought one. Due to the nature of my mother’s work, she has to be able to hop in the car on a moments notice. Now she ordered a portable, rechargeable jumper... for a brand new car that’s 10 days old 😳
 

Will1991

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@Gecko , that's very strange, I wold bet on a faulty 12V battery. If I'm not mistaken it's normal for US buyers to select a car from the lot, and given current pandemic they should be sitting for several weeks/months draining the battery, and then any significant ambient temperature variation would be enough to kill it.
If you have a battery reconditioner, unplug it from the car and use it,

Just be careful were you plug the jumper, check your car manual, you don't want to burn any electronics.
 
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Gecko

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@Gecko , that's very strange, I wold bet on a faulty 12V battery. If I'm not mistaken it's normal for US buyers to select a car from the lot, and given current pandemic they should be sitting for several weeks/months draining the battery, and then any significant ambient temperature variation would be enough to kill it.
If you have a battery reconditioner, unplug it from the car and use it,

Just be careful were you plug the jumper, check your car manual, you don't want to burn any electronics.
Unfortunately not that. Something more serious going on.
 

suxeL

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Interesting and sad to hear it. If a new 12V battery does not cure it, I`d want some good ole fashion overnight testing of the communication network to see which modules are continuing to draw power/not sleeping.
 

spwolf

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Unfortunately not that. Something more serious going on.
sucks that they have to deal with that... a lot of people put bigger battery in hybrids since they are so undersized. But yes, there should be some unintended power draw if that is happening on a new vehicle (that TSB might explain it).
 

Ian Schmidt

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Disappointing, but not surprising. Most problems with modern cars across all makes are the electronics and software. At least it wasn't like the electrical problems Ford and GM ran through where the car would burn down.

It does further discredit the idea that EVs will be maintenance-free though.
 
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