5th Generation RX Discussion: Official Thread (RX 500h, 450h+, 350h and More)

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ssun30

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I'm still curious about the e-latch. How do bystanders or rescue people know how to open the doors using the mechanical backup if e-latch fails and the occupants are unconscious?
 

Will1991

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Break the windows or cut the door out.

From what I've read, the door may get physically stuck (due to a severe collision for example) before the e-Latch malfunctions.
 
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So Redline is estimating the 500h at $72k.

After looking at the dimensions, this is much closer to an X3 size wise. The Lexus has a longer front overhang which makes up for a lot of the overall length. The X3 has a slightly longer wheelbase and more cargo room.

This is FSP, so, it has to perform... he got 5.7s 0-60 at ~$70k
X3 xDrive30i at $47k is 6s
X3 M40i starts at $60k is 4.4s
X3M starts at $73k is 3.9s

The 500h will have slightly better MPG though

It will be interesting to see a comparison to the MDX Type S.
 

Gecko

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500h FSP reviews are very positive so far, even from people who are usually quite critical of Lexus, like Redline. Seems the new 2.4T (RX 350) is faster on paper but "feels" slower to reviewers compared to the V6.

With comparisons to the X3, X5, Q7, RDX and MDX, one of the RX's core strengths has always been overall passenger comfort and space, and that feeling is not really something you 100% pick up on a spec sheet. Yes you can compare dimensions for hip room, leg room, head room, rear seat leg room, etc but RX has been fighting this battle for a long time now -- and winning -- with real buyers.

RX being in it's own unique class means media are always reaching from below (X3, Q5) and above (X5, MDX) to try to draw comparisons but the ultimate result is that those comparisons are not indicative of real shopping habits, and they aren't apples-to-apples either.

One of my good friends has a new X3 and it feels much less comfortable and less spacious than even the current RX. It feels much more "compact" than midsize IMO. As savage geese mentions, X5 second row space is also not quite as comfortable and "big" as the RX feels. X5 and MDX have smaller second rows to try to squeeze in third rows -- not a compromise the RX has to make.

TX will be the direct competitor to Q7, X5, MDX, etc. The only real competitors I can find for the RX are the 2-row Mercedes GLE and Audi eTron. Everything else is quite different depending on size, packaging, rows, etc.

I say all of this because while we rush to draw comparisons to RX 500h FSP with 0-60 times, I 1) don't think real buyers are going to really be looking much at that metric and 2) think Lexus has a wide open space here where the RX 500h feels larger, more comfortable and brings "Lexus-ness" to a performance set where it didn't exist before. I don't really expect an X3 M40i buyer to be cross shopping an RX 500h FSP, but I do expect former IS/GS 350 F SPORT owners to consider it as an option, as well as some move ups from NX and former RX owners wanting more performance. Lexus knows that and it's why they did this.

Building out a GLC 43 AMG and spec'ing it similar to RX 500h FSP (+premium paint, +21" wheels, +AMG performance studio package, +leather interior, +ventilated seats, +heated steering wheel, +multimedia package, +Burmester surround sound, +wireless phone charging, +driver assistance package, +surround view cameras) = $73,220+

GLE 450 stacked with similar options comes to $78k.

New RX is a home run.
 

ssun30

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The X3 ride quality and overall interior feel is trash compared to the NX not to mention RX. It's a pure spec sheet car. You have to go for the X5 to get RX level comfort. X5 is admittedly superior to RX but also much more expensive.

I'm still unsure about the 500h system's real performance. My problem is not with the absolute acceleration figure, but again, achievement ratio matters. If Redline's 5.7s figure is a reasonable guidance, and assuming the 500h weighs 2150kg, then the achievement ratio is ~0.49. That's average for a Lexus ICEV (NX350 = 0.488), but much lower than their average HEV (NX350h = 0.528). And the best achievement ratio seen out of a Toyota power-split hybrid system is ~0.62 (GAC GS8 and Prius). At that level it could achieve the same performance as 500h with a A25A-FKS (non-hybrid version) plus the 72kW bipolar NiMH battery from the 500h, with a total power of just 220kW/295hp. It makes me wonder what even is the point of developing a brand new hybrid system that will be on the market for 8 years max. It's inferior performance wise AND efficiency wise than the power-split THS. Yes the power density is higher but that power is not helpful for achieving better performance.

EDIT: Now I think more about it, I see the point is they could not scale up their existing PS system to make the TX drivable. They are kind of forced into a suboptimal solution because they need to build a really big 3-row SUV (which should have just been a Lexus Sequoia).

Building out a GLC 43 AMG and spec'ing it similar to RX 500h FSP (+premium paint, +21" wheels, +AMG performance studio package, +leather interior, +ventilated seats, +heated steering wheel, +multimedia package, +Burmester surround sound, +wireless phone charging, +driver assistance package, +surround view cameras) = $73,220+

GLE 450 stacked with similar options comes to $78k.

New RX is a home run.
The worst part of German luxury cars is you have to pay money for driver assistance systems that have been free on a Yaris since 2018, and most of the cookie cutter trims on dealership lots don't have these equipped, I have to custom order or be lucky to have one.
 
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Levi

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The main objective of the RX 500h is not being faster than competition [pointless contest, because there always will be faster anyway, BMW XM coming - but OMG how heavy, a real Panzer, imagine an armored BMW XM High Security Plus - and Ferrari Purosangue checkmate]. The main objective of RX 500h is being faster for RX customers and for Lexus standards. I think it hits its target.
 

ssun30

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The main objective of the RX 500h is not being faster than competition [pointless contest, because there always will be faster anyway, BMW XM coming - but OMG how heavy, a real Panzer, imagine an armored BMW XM High Security Plus - and Ferrari Purosangue checkmate]. The main objective of RX 500h is being faster for RX customers and for Lexus standards. I think it hits its target.
My dislike of the RX500h is not what their performance target is, but how they achieved that performance target.

The new P2 parallel hybrid system is worse than PS hybrid both in terms of performance and efficiency. They could've gone for a much simpler solution (scaled up 350h system) and accept a slightly slower acceleration figure but with 10-20% better fuel efficiency. This P2 system seems very poorly optimized. Personally, I don't like the idea of only ~1s faster acceleration but a 10MPG loss.

Maybe it's just me that have gone too obsessed with achievement ratio. But in the new world of electrification, it is arguably the most important performance metric every manufacturer is pursuing.
 

mikeavelli

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So Redline is estimating the 500h at $72k.

After looking at the dimensions, this is much closer to an X3 size wise. The Lexus has a longer front overhang which makes up for a lot of the overall length. The X3 has a slightly longer wheelbase and more cargo room.

This is FSP, so, it has to perform... he got 5.7s 0-60 at ~$70k
X3 xDrive30i at $47k is 6s
X3 M40i starts at $60k is 4.4s
X3M starts at $73k is 3.9s

The 500h will have slightly better MPG though

It will be interesting to see a comparison to the MDX Type S.
My dislike of the RX500h is not what their performance target is, but how they achieved that performance target.

The new P2 parallel hybrid system is worse than PS hybrid both in terms of performance and efficiency. They could've gone for a much simpler solution (scaled up 350h system) and accept a slightly slower acceleration figure but with 10-20% better fuel efficiency. This P2 system seems very poorly optimized. Personally, I don't like the idea of only ~1s faster acceleration but a 10MPG loss.

Maybe it's just me that have gone too obsessed with achievement ratio. But in the new world of electrification, it is arguably the most important performance metric every manufacturer is pursuing.

No one mentioned the X3 during the event. This is X5 competition and what was mentioned. The NX fights the X3.
 

qtb007

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My dislike of the RX500h is not what their performance target is, but how they achieved that performance target.

The new P2 parallel hybrid system is worse than PS hybrid both in terms of performance and efficiency. They could've gone for a much simpler solution (scaled up 350h system) and accept a slightly slower acceleration figure but with 10-20% better fuel efficiency. This P2 system seems very poorly optimized. Personally, I don't like the idea of only ~1s faster acceleration but a 10MPG loss.

Maybe it's just me that have gone too obsessed with achievement ratio. But in the new world of electrification, it is arguably the most important performance metric every manufacturer is pursuing.
0-60 isn't very relevant in a luxury crossover. The best 0-60 in a gasoline vehicle comes from an abusive, abrupt launch. RX buyers are not asking for that. They want a smooth surge of power when they ask for it -- passing power on a highway, comfortably pulling a long incline without the engine thrashing and wailing, quickly getting around a slow truck on an onramp and up to interstate speed. Think of Rolls Royce's famous "adequate" horsepower rating. The big electric motor out back, the torquey 2.4T, and the fixed gear automatic should provide that. Pricing obviously matters, but a smooth, strong powertrain is what an uprated RX should provide... not drag strip times.
 

mikeavelli

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You certainly enjoyed it.

It’s not that I had low expectations but like it’s a RX lol. Low and behold the damn thing drives amazingly well as a 500h F Sport Performance.I kept driving it in the mountains waiting to hate it and want to go drink wine at the winery. That never happened.

MP makes a point about 0-60 and I’m likely jaded in thinking it could be faster. My wife will think it’s perfect. I estimate 0-60 in mid to high 5s which is a leap over any RX.

I just couldn’t believe I was in a RX.
 

mikeavelli

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Now here are my negatives or things I would like to see improved or changed so y’all don’t think I am the Lexus Happy Unicorn.

1. I’m tired of Luxury packages and features not available on the F Sport. I want full loaded and all the buttons. So does the wife. I have provided feedback.
2. I hate the F sport readout on the dash. It reminds me of the 1990s Nintendo. It’s not the normal F sport reading like in the LX, IS etc.
3. No knob to switch modes. You got to engage with Lexus Interface. I do believe you can save one of the buttons somewhere to engage it. I like the LFA knob in the LC, ES.
4. Sport mode felt a bit harsh to me on unperfect roads. Normal was absolutely brilliant. Sport was best on paved mountain winding roads.
5. Front over hang is substantial and the spindle body is not my thing. Dark colors for me.
6. I prefer the adjustments in the luxury seat including the seat extender. I’m tall. The F Sport P doesn’t have it.
7. The non F sport steering wheels feel thin and meh to me. Likely not an issue with the target demographic.
8. Edit thanks @ssun30 more colors and color combos and interior colors and CARBON FIBER


None of these are deal breakers. But i am tempted to see who i can piss off to get a one off loaded RX F Sport Performance with ever luxury feature even if ai got to build it myself lol.
 
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ssun30

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0-60 isn't very relevant in a luxury crossover. The best 0-60 in a gasoline vehicle comes from an abusive, abrupt launch. RX buyers are not asking for that. They want a smooth surge of power when they ask for it -- passing power on a highway, comfortably pulling a long incline without the engine thrashing and wailing, quickly getting around a slow truck on an onramp and up to interstate speed. Think of Rolls Royce's famous "adequate" horsepower rating. The big electric motor out back, the torquey 2.4T, and the fixed gear automatic should provide that. Pricing obviously matters, but a smooth, strong powertrain is what an uprated RX should provide... not drag strip times.
If you read me correctly you can tell I don't really care about its 0-60 time, but the sacrifice the buyer has to make to get that 0-60 time. My main point is they could achieve a slightly worse performance with a proven and much more efficient system. Having a high achievement ratio doesn't mean the car has abusive, abrupt launch (I never felt that in any moderately powered BMW ICEV or Lexus HEV), it just means energy is efficiently generated and transferred.

Now here are my negatives or things I would like to see improved or changed so y’all don’t think I am the Lexus Happy Unicorn.

1. I’m tired of Luxury packages and features not available on the F Sport. I want full loaded and all the buttons. So does the wife. I have provided feedback.
2. I hate the F sport readout on the dash. It reminds me of the 1990s Nintendo. It’s not the normal F sport reading like in the LX, IS etc.
3. No knob to switch modes. You got to engage with Lexus Interface. I do believe you can save one of the buttons somewhere to engage it. I like the LFA knob in the LC, ES.
4. Sport mode felt a bit harsh to me on unperfect roads. Normal was absolutely brilliant. Sport was best on paved mountain winding roads.
5. Front over hang is substantial and the spindle body is not my thing. Dark colors for me.
6. I prefer the adjustments in the luxury seat including the seat extender. I’m tall. The F Sport P doesn’t have it.
7. The non F sport steering wheels feel thin and meh to me. Likely not an issue with the target demographic.


None of these are deal breakers. But i am tempted to see who i can piss off to get a one off loaded RX F Sport Performance with ever luxury feature even if ai got to build it myself lol.
Do you think the color options are adequate? Only black interior for that wonderful copper color is a bit disappointing. I feel Lexus should allow more interior color flexibility. How is FSP seat comfort compared to say a regular 350 Luxury package.

Maybe it's just a cultural thing, but I really dislike black interiors found on vast majority of American cars. In Asia we actually prefer lighter colors like beige and grey.
 

mikeavelli

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If you read me correctly you can tell I don't really care about its 0-60 time, but the sacrifice the buyer has to make to get that 0-60 time. My main point is they could achieve a slightly worse performance with a proven and much more efficient system. Having a high achievement ratio doesn't mean the car has abusive, abrupt launch (I never felt that in any moderately powered BMW ICEV or Lexus HEV), it just means energy is efficiently generated and transferred.


Do you think the color options are adequate? Only black interior for that wonderful copper color is a bit disappointing. I feel Lexus should allow more interior color flexibility. How is FSP seat comfort compared to say a regular 350 Luxury package.

Maybe it's just a cultural thing, but I really dislike black interiors found on vast majority of American cars. In Asia we actually prefer lighter colors like beige and grey.

Good point on the colors. Edited my post. It’s one of the things I had a lot of people message me about already. Especially lack of red or white or anything on copper. Copper is black interior only. And no carbon fiber trim option.

Nori Green all the things!